Originally posted by srankmissingnin
By Crom!I think that with out his healing factor the odds would be close to even for either with a slight edge to Conan but with his healing factor Logan should be winning around 8 out of 10.
Conan wins it, and I shall tell you why.
The general consensus of why Wolverine would win seems to be that his claws and adamantium give him the edge. I disagree. Often times when people factor in Wolverine's healing factor they assume everything is healed instantly. This is not the case. When Wolverine will get hit with the sword, he is going to hurt. Also, remember this is Conan we are talking about, not spiderman or the Hulk. Conan will not "clobber" Wolverine, Conan swings a sword and he routinely swings it to KILL people. He is a much deadly fighter. A chop to the neck or gut will KO Wolverine just from the amount of trauma he would have to heal. His healing factor will stop him from being dead, but Wolverine would get the loss. His healing factor is countered by the large trauma that Conan can deal with a sword to the face. The Adamantium skeleton can be countered with the fact that Conan doesnt need to break Wolvies bones to get a win. So they are more evenly matched. So what it comes down to is Conan, an extremely skilled barbarian warrior with a big sword, who routinely kills people in battle, vs Wolverine, a short canadian with claws and fanboys, who despite talking a bunch of crap, only once in a blue moon manages to get a kill with his claws.
I think Conan can get a win.
You mean like how Shingen chopped of wolverines head . . oh wait no he didn't because he couldn't slice through the vertebrae. . .
I guess wolverine bled to death because it takes him along time to. . .
No wait, he healed up right after that. . . and the other times when wolverine has been burned and heals back to normal in a few frames.
Originally posted by long pigDon't know, it's in the rules though. . . but if people actually let them in . . I guess it can be counted.
Why aren't What Ifs considered at least semi canon?
Though I'm still curious as that was an issue I missed, how did Conan's non magical sword stand up to the adamantium like it did?
Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Conan wins it, and I shall tell you why.The general consensus of why Wolverine would win seems to be that his claws and adamantium give him the edge. I disagree. Often times when people factor in Wolverine's healing factor they assume everything is healed instantly. This is not the case. When Wolverine will get hit with the sword, he is going to hurt. Also, remember this is Conan we are talking about, not spiderman or the Hulk. Conan will not "clobber" Wolverine, Conan swings a sword and he routinely swings it to KILL people. He is a much deadly fighter. A chop to the neck or gut will KO Wolverine just from the amount of trauma he would have to heal. His healing factor will stop him from being dead, but Wolverine would get the loss. His healing factor is countered by the large trauma that Conan can deal with a sword to the face. The Adamantium skeleton can be countered with the fact that Conan doesnt need to break Wolvies bones to get a win. So they are more evenly matched. So what it comes down to is Conan, an extremely skilled barbarian warrior with a big sword, who routinely kills people in battle, vs Wolverine, a short canadian with claws and fanboys, who despite talking a bunch of crap, only once in a blue moon manages to get a kill with his claws.
I think Conan can get a win.
no offense but you are insane..and I shall tell you why...
you seem to think that conan will beat logan because he................馃槺.................................................. swings a sword with the intention to kill............?
馃槙
sorry to say but that's truly an unconvincing argument....really....
are you not aware that wolverine regularly faces up against oponents who are easily conans physical superiors with equal fighting ability..and weapons that are fully capable of applying more peircing and slicing damage than just one sword?
as creshosck already brought up...wolverine went toe to toe with shingen....shingen was a master swordsmen....I know conan's impressive skills...but he is in no way as honed and tempored as shingen was...guess how shingen faired out..... (you won't find any shingen limited series coming out anytime soon i can tell you that)....
you only further soil your argument...by insulting the character of wolverine and his fans....wolverine doesn't kill many established comic book characters because most of his rogues have a healing factor..or he loses 95% of his fighting ability (namely the ability to punch) when fighting well established people..funny how as soon as he's up against someone easily expendable or someone with a healing factor..he had no problem making contact whatsoever huh?
You seem to think wolverine rarely kills anyone..but that's simply not true...obviously you know little about him.....for instance are you aware he just downed nearly 2 thousand members of the hand? and hundreds upon hundreds of super villains? probably not..but then again that's most likely the reason why your argument's so weak....
conan would put up a good fight...hell he'd put up a great fight..but ultimately...he'll lose....
Let me clarify arguments, all fanboy bashing and stuff aside.
One of the biggest problems in this matchup is guaging the fighting power of Conan. There is no common ground to compare the two seperatly, I dont think Conan is listed in the handbook. You can say that Shingen is Conan's better, but we dont have anything to compare it with, at least to my knowledge. Conan could be better or worse, or equal. For sake of my argument, Im saying he is better, since Conan is the best in his universe.
Now whats interesting is that there actually is a common ground to compare these two combatants, since they have fought in a comic entitled "What if Conan battled Wolverine" which I personally think is pretty relevant to this discussion, since it is after all what we are discussing here. In this comic Wolverine suffered a broken neck and had to sit out of the fight for a while and heal. In regards to a battle, at least in my opinion, rendering an opponent unable to battle for an amount of time is a win. Wolverine came back later and did some damage, but like a round 2. Im not sure how that battle ended up, and I havnt found any scans or a complete plot synopsis for it. I dont understand why some people say that What Ifs dont count because they are real comics that answer the same questions that are posed. Doesnt make much sense to ask "What if Conan fought Wolverine" and when someone whips out a book entitled "What if Conan fought Wolverine" and you say "That doesnt count" seems to not be really logical. Its like "bad writing" arguments, which is another problem for Wolverine discussion since hes been shown to heal instantly, while also being shown to heal slowly. Remember in Fatal Attractions, when he was just about DEAD. He was walking into the light. Jean called him back telekintcally. Why didnt he heal instantly there? Was was overloaded? So Wolverine cant instantly heal everything? If it was really that strong, then it probably would have bounced back eventually, Wolverine wouldnt have been walking into the light and all that stuff? Bad Writing? Fatal Attractions is bad writing? Now, Im not saying Conan can do damage equal to ripping adamantium off his bones, Im saying that Wolverine's healing factor is far from consistent.
Anyway, back on topic. When i said he swings with intentions to kill, I wasnt trying to say that he wins just because he wants to kill, I was trying to point out the damage a Conan Sword can do. Its just as deadly as Wolverines' claws, I dare say moreso since its heavier, and can get alot of cincrifical force behind it. Like hitting a baseball with a bat, (Conan) vs hitting it with three peices of metal ducttaped to your wrist (wolverine) Conan can do more damage per hit is all Im saying. Im not saying Wolverine couldnt kill him with a well placed SNIKT but if Wolverine gets hit by a Conan sword hes gonna go down. He could dislodge a vertebrea or puncture a joint capsule or ruin Wolverine's day. Again, nothing that Wolverine couldnt do to him, but the point is Conan can do damage to Wolverine, enough to possibly get a win.
So, Conan has a chance. Now lets look at why I think Conan can win.
If Conan = Wolverine in skill, and Conan can damage Wolverine with a blow, then whats left to look at is the actual weapons and fight.
Conan has a magical nigh unbreakable weapon. Ill assume that this equals adamantium. So there is no cutting of weapons here. If Conan and Wolverine are equals in their fighting ablility, being the best at what each of them does, then Conan has the advantage, because a sword is technically superior weapon than claws. I know Wolverine has fought people with swords before, but that by no means signifies that Wolverine can beat ANYONE with a sword, we are talking about Conan. The sword just has the reach advantage Wolverine has to come through it to get close. Its entirely possible for Wolverine to do it, but remember Im assuming that Conan and Wolverine are EQUALS in skill regarding there styles of combat. Conan is a "master" at his swordplay, Wolverine is a "master" at his claws. Conan has the advantage of the more advantagous weapon. Now, wolverine could in theory wear down Conan since he has no healing factor, but with the damage threat of Conan's huge honking sword, Conan can dish out enough damage in a stroke to put enough of a hurting on Wolverine that Conan could land another stroke. I actually kind of see the fight playing out the way it did in "What if..." Conan ends up breaking his neck or leaving his sword stuck in him or something, after a close fight.
Originally posted by OnikirimaruThank you. That's what erases the doubt from my mind.
Conan has a magical nigh unbreakable weapon.
From what it sounded like before it was a regular sword forged of something like titanium (which in Conan's universe wouldn't be able to be broken by traditional steel since it's a much stronger metal.)
Onikirimaru, you defend Conan very well, but you forget that Wolverine is as tough as they come (probably tougher than Conan), as fast and as strong as Conan and at least as good a fighter as Conan.
Throw in his unbreakable skeleton, his heightened senses and his six unbreakable claws (all things Conan does not have), and I think we have a winner.
I hate myself for saying this, cuz Conan is one of my favorite underestimated characters, but in the end, as cool as he may be, he is just a big muscled warrior with good skills and a big knife (and a cool attitude and a great catchphrase - By Crom !).
Nothing Wolverine hasn't faced before.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Onikirimaru, you defend Conan very well, but you forget that Wolverine is as tough as they come (probably tougher than Conan), as fast and as strong as Conan and at least as good a fighter as Conan.
Thanks, and he is a big underdog in the fight, which is why I defended him. I know Im not about to change anyone's minds, but I just like to play the devils advocate y'know.
firstly only the classic conan from back in the day, when all his comics were published in black and white. after he became the barbarian king did he start to use any mystical objects or artifacts(nigh invulnerable, shield, sword, and helmet etc....) but all in all conan is a bad ass dude man....i been reading his current monthly's and that guy is awesome.
i mean he's from a warrior race and all and war combat is his thing. this is a guy who doesnt have any special powers other than honing his natural skills to peak human levels, and who regularily takes on mythical ferocious creatures..like dragon thingies,,, and dungeon dwelling snarling beasts..and oh he once gutted a frost giant(about 15-20 feet tall) after he was already battle weary, and traveling thru the snow for days without food and water.
Also, i forgot the name of the place but he was searching for this land that was esentially the equivalent to shangri-la, a paradise if you will, and it turned out that it was just a story the ppl(celestials) who lived there made up to attract ppl in order to get more slaves, anyhooo whenever they captured ppl they mutated some of them into these hulking mind controlled, 8 foot tall bastiches who could punch thru solid rock and the hole nine, and conan took on a bunch at once, killed one or two and drove the rest off. so as you can see when it comes to Conan, wu-tang clan aint nothing to f **** with.
Sure logan's healing factor might trump all that but whether canon or not, if a good writer gets on the case he'll have conan giving a good showing, even tho logically speaking logans healing might win out. but as was said b4 only logans bones are unbreakble not the cartilage in between, so one precision strike or two can easily take off a hand or knee at the joints, or even logans head for tha matter
Originally posted by manjaroNot true, as I've pointed out, anything that can be burned away or sliced by shingen, would have been.
but as was said b4 only logans bones are unbreakble not the cartilage in between, so one precision strike or two can easily take off a hand or knee at the joints, or even logans head for tha matter
Since it wasn't, then it can't.
ok creshok ididnt quite undestand that but wolverines cartilage is not unbreakble,, sure it would heal if left alone long enuff but if it were his hand wouldnt have been severed in AoA. if conan swings his mighty sword and aim for the joint, one of two things either its gonna get chopped off in one strike or its gonna damage him enuff to put him down so that Conan can hack him up some more. what ppl fail to realize is that his healing factor isnt like sinister's where he heals almost intantaneously, or any body else that has molecular control.
frank castle shot him in the stomach with a rocket luancher once and it took the whole entire day for him to heal back up, the same thing in that venom series when he got hit with the nuke, it was a whole day affair. not that im saying that conan chopping him between the vertbrae would take all day but the only wounds wolvie heals instantly from are supeficial slashes like when x-23 pulled a Guile Street fighter move and gave him a flash kick with her toe claw, and the errant knife slash or gunshot wound or two. but a deep gash between his joints is gonna put him down enuff to take more punsihment. besides wolvie just heals fast he's not invulnerable, and he doesnt exactly have an extraordinarliy high level resistance to injury. he hurts just like every body esle, so im thinking that if he gets a huge whack across the chest from a ginormous sword or axe or something he's not just gonna brush it off as if it were nothing he'll be writhing in pain and shit til he heals.... so Conan can take it
Originally posted by manjaroAoA is not 616.
ok creshok ididnt quite undestand that but wolverines cartilage is not unbreakble,, sure it would heal if left alone long enuff but if it were his hand wouldnt have been severed in AoA.
in 616 there have been several times when we see his skeleton in one piece where it would fall apart if you were correct.
conan could slip the sword in between wolvies ribs right into his heart or lungs. i'm guessing that would ruin wolvies day. still even more than the healing factor is the berserker in wolvie - that's what beat conan ultimately in the what if. this is a great match, i's say wolvie 7/10 because of healing and berserker.
Well, when it's a character who is physically superior to one that is a significanlty better fighter, I usually go for the better fighter (to some extent.) But in this case both are equal fighters, but Conan is stronger and faster. He's likely to hit first and more often.
He doesn't have to break bone to incapacitate Wolvie, what if he eviscerates him, that's a win plain and simple.
this is ridciculous.....CONAN WILL NOT DISLOCATE OR BREAK ANYTHING....I haven't read the issue myself...mercilous seems to think that conan simply cut everything in the back of the neck and there was no displacement of bones.....you conan supporters think that conan did indeed break his neck...does anyone have pics? or proof? (i'm genuinely curious.....).... anyways...assuming he did break logans neck...do you know why that happened in a what if? cause it CAN'T happen to the 616 wolverine period....seriously..unless conan's packing Hulk-level power in those muscles of his, his sword will break nothing...all that would happen..is his sword hitting the base of the neck...then bouncing right back off that's it...if wolverine's neck could be so easily broken than why do you think he can take hulk uppercuts that send him miles into the air and not have his head seperated from his shoulders? you've already kinda pointed out some distaste for the bad writing argument so I truly wonder...what's your explaination for that? maybe you don't know enough about wolverine to be arguing here or maybe you do...... but the fact is, it's well known that wolverine's skeleton is bonded at a molecular level thus allowing it to remain ONE GOD-DAMNED piece......his cartilage and ligaments mean very little since his bones can't be seperated by anyone who doesn't have the brute strength to literally brake adamantium......conan DEFINITELY doesn't fall into this category.....
now you said that wolverine's healing factor is inconsistant...well...I agree....it is...but you have to consider that wolverine's healing factor is contingent upon the amount of energy his body houses...thus..if wolverine didn't sleep for a week or two his healing factor would slow down, if he didn't allow his body to rest, his healing factor would slow down...if he doesn't get the proper amount of food and nurishment, his healing factor slows down.......HOWEVER....we ARE supposed to be using these characters at their best.....logan at even half of that is far better than what most people assume him to be...in several of his encounters vs. sabretooth wolverine is commenting how they give and trade wounds that would have killed dozens of lesser men.....conan may be able to land a few good shots...but your whole argument rides on him being able to KO logan or overwhelm his healing factor with one blow...hell even several won't do the trick.... you also seem to be under the impression that..conan's sword is more devistating due to the brute force with which it can be used....sorry guys....wolverine's had his organs turned to jelly by hulk hits and they reformed before hulk landed the next punch..then reformed again before logan hit the ground.....conan is not packing that kind of raw power...his sword will cut....and unless conan gets lucky it's not going to put logan down....at all.....
shingen stabbed logan, logan drew him in closer by grabbing the sword and snikting him.....conan could very well fall under the same disadvantage....you guys also seem to think that wolverine takes pain and punishment just like any human...this simply isn't true...take your pic....wolverine's organs turned to jelly/ being completely gutted like a fish by cyber, by deathstrike, sabretooth, puma etc to only continue to fight/ being shot at by 100 armed assailants and quickly dispatching of all of them/ recieving mortal wounds that would put down dozens of lesser men and continuing the brawl only to hit harder and move faster as a result of the rage due to the wounds/ being set on fire on 5 sepreate occasions and remaining not only concious but standing everytime/ being batted away by an steel girder swingin namor and just stadin up ater it/ hit hard enough in the head to wreck cars over and over again and just smiling in return/....being hit by a stealth bomber in the spine just to get up from it/ being shot, stabbed, set aflame, and blown up by a small army and then promptly killing them all/ being shot with a tommy gun, gutted with a spear and set on fire by a flamethrower and just keeps coming/dropping 11 stories onto the ground and getting up imediately at a full sprint/ having his organs turned into jelly and ending the fight with a near mortal victory over hulk/ being torched by hellfire of one of the worlds oldest demons and just walking through it/ getting hit by cyks beam and walking through that/ being hit with a tree that has the destructive force of a bomb and busting out of the ground that's been glazed by it/ being thrown into the next county miles into the air by hulk (without adamntium) and just getting up right after it/ being punched in the head by hulk, grey hulk, thing, namor, collosus, and wendigo AND boucing right back up from it/being slammed head first against numerous trees by an angry wendigo only to get up pissed off and litteraly make the big guy back down with nothing but a scream/ being tortured and used as a punching bag by roughhouse (class 70 at least)all day long without adamantium/ being crushed between two cars and remaing concious THEN getting up pages later/ having his throat ripped out but remaining awake/ getting blasted by a fireweilder in the shiar empire...then grabbing her and knocking her unconcious/....etc etc etc...the list truly does go on and on and on....any one of these feats would have put logan into a state of unconsiousness simply due to the physical pain factor...YET he just keeps coming....obviously his tolerance to pain is alot higher than an average humans....hmmmm...might have something to do with the fact that HE'S NOT HUMAN....which a lot of people seem to miss around here......
also of note..a stealth bomber's wing caught logan in the spine it didn't break any bones you honestly think a sword swung by a barabrian's gonna do the trick?
conan may be stronger (that's somewhat debateable in my opinion) but he falls under the same disadvantage most human fighters do against logan....fatigue.... I can honestly say I haven't quite seen anything that supports whether or not he's actually faster than wolverine ( I don't believe that he is) but he's certainly more subject to fatigue than ol logan is.....
now....