Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Any "testing" from god at any point in time in someone's life is redundant. An all-knowing god should already know the outcome.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Any "testing" from god at any point in time in someone's life is redundant. An all-knowing god should already know the outcome.
YES...an all knowing god would know this...
There are no test...It's all a learning experience of reaping and sowing from your action or deeds...That's the best way to learn...You do it until you do it right...Practice makes perfect!...
OTHERWISE
Originally posted by finti
how wasteful
Originally posted by debbiejo
I know what the doctrine is, but it still doesn't make sense...why discipline at all...If according to scripture we are flawed, then why wouldn't a god have compassion on the unstable nature of humans?
After all, it is an all powerful, all knowing god...
Why do you associate the test with not having compassion? If you overcome the test you become better mentally and spiritually. If He didn't have compassion He would withhold this from you and leave you in a lowly childish state.
Originally posted by debbiejo
BTW...I've seen people who have gone through this "discipline" and totally get ugly....it didn't produce a wonderful harvest of righteousness.
If you fail the test then you are punished. The true danger is if you don't know this. If you know and understand the nature of the tests we normally face in life, you would be more apt to patiently persevere without complaint (which is how you win and pass the tests).
How cruel.
Not everybody can handle these so called tests. So, a weakened mind, which god made, is put to the same tests as someone who is much stronger? How is that fair. Especially if god knows the outcome already? It makes no sense at all. And, if you get a failing grade for committing suicide, which some of these tests cost some, how is that just?
Sounds more like torture to me, on the innocent, who has done nothing to displease such a being.
Originally posted by Deja~vu
How cruel.Not everybody can handle these so called tests. So, a weakened mind, which god made, is put to the same tests as someone who is much stronger? How is that fair. Especially if god knows the outcome already? It makes no sense at all. And, if you get a failing grade for committing suicide, which some of these tests cost some, how is that just?
Sounds more like torture to me, on the innocent, who has done nothing to displease such a being.
God doesn't put a burden on anyone greater than they can handle, and He knows best what each of us can handle.
It's up to us to stay positive and pass. Cruelty would be to leave us alone to stagnate in an elementary stage. You only displease Him when you give in to innate weakness we all possess and fail the test.
God's knowing the future doesn't have anything to do with how you perform. You're the one that needs to pass the tests of life not Him.
Originally posted by RE: BlaxicanI agree.
Then why give us the test? The point of a test is to clock your performance. if you already know know what someone's level is, then there is no point in giving a test.
It would be pointless to an all knowing, all powerful being. Why not just enjoy your creations, accept what you have made. A god made them, right? Then why not enjoy them. If you don't like what you have made, then give them some help in a loving way.
If god, in knowing the future, saw that some killed themselves, then why do it to them?
Weird.
Originally posted by MRasheed
The point of this test is to determine who is worthy of heaven and who is hellbound.
But God is omnipotent and omniscient and already knows who is worthy of heaven and who isn't. There's no point in giving a test because he knows what has what is and what will be. It's like a teacher giving a student a test already knowing he's going to get an F. It's pointless.
inb4 "God works in mysterious ways".
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
But God is omnipotent and omniscient and already knows who is worthy of heaven and who isn't. There's no point in giving a test because he knows what has what is and what will be. It's like a teacher giving a student a test already knowing he's going to get an F. It's pointless.
It's not pointless for YOU. God's knowing power doesn't have anything to do with YOUR salvation, and YOUR choices in life, and quality of YOUR existence spent in the afterlife forever. If you chose a life of right or wrong God will know either way, and will judge you accordingly. He will also know every remote detail of each circumstance down to your very thoughts at the time, and will thus know how much mecy/forgiveness to apply to each situation. That's the benefit of His knowing the future. Other than that, what happens is still 100% up to you.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
"God works in mysterious ways".
He does, but in this particular case, His ways are pretty straght forward: Obey him and prosper, disbelieve and be hellbound.
Originally posted by MRasheed
It's not pointless for YOU. God's knowing power doesn't have anything to do with YOUR salvation, and YOUR choices in life, and quality of YOUR existence spent in the afterlife forever. If you chose a life of right or wrong God will know either way, and will judge you accordingly. He will also know every remote detail of each circumstance down to your very thoughts at the time, and will thus know how much mecy/forgiveness to apply to each situation. That's the benefit of His knowing the future. Other than that, what happens is still 100% up to you.
How does this allow for choice if we are simply moving along a predetermined path? If God knows everything we will do and what will happen to us, then essentially we are just actors guided by a script already written. We have the illusion of free will because walking around all day telling yourself that you have no free will would make for an interesting lifestyle.
Originally posted by inimalist
how do you define the terms merciful and benevolent?
mercy act of forgiving or not punishing someone. the act of forgiving someone or not treating them severely, especially someone who you have the authority to punish
benevolent generous and willing to help people. willing to help and be generous toward people
Originally posted by Lucius
How does this allow for choice if we are simply moving along a predetermined path?
You are not on a predetermined path. God is not a part of the time stream. He created it. He knows what you are going to do by His nature. This does not affect your ability to choose.
Originally posted by Lucius
If God knows everything we will do and what will happen to us, then essentially we are just actors guided by a script already written.
The Big Picture and overall destiny of the universe is already written on the grand scale, but your individual part is written only as you make your choices.
Originally posted by Lucius
We have the illusion of free will because walking around all day telling yourself that you have no free will would make for an interesting lifestyle.
It's not an illusion. You are free to do as you will; choose Good as you please, or choose Bad as you please.
Originally posted by MRasheed
[b]mercy act of forgiving or not punishing someone. the act of forgiving someone or not treating them severely, especially someone who you have the authority to punishbenevolent generous and willing to help people. willing to help and be generous toward people [/B]
are these qualities you ascribe to God/Allah?
Originally posted by MRasheed
You are not on a predetermined path. God is not a part of the time stream. He created it. He knows what you are going to do by His nature. This does not affect your ability to choose.
That's just the point. If I'm at T1 and God knows that at T2 I'll will commit action A, how is there a choice to commit anything but action A regardless if action A is "good" or "evil?"
Saying that God is outside of the time stream like some extra-cosmic observer looking at all points of existence at all points in time only makes the problem even worse.
Originally posted by MRasheed
The Big Picture and overall destiny of the universe is already written on the grand scale, but your individual part is written only as you make your choices.
So, I'm too small to have a pixel on the cosmic image?
Originally posted by MRasheed
It's not an illusion. You are free to do as you will; choose Good as you please, or choose Bad as you please.
This statement doesn't work until you find a way to resolve my above questions.