Why does God test us?

Originally posted by MRasheed
You are not on a predetermined path. God is not a part of the time stream. He created it. He knows what you are going to do by His nature. This does not affect your ability to choose.

Originally posted by Lucius
That's just the point. If I'm at T1 and God knows that at T2 I'll will commit action A, how is there a choice to commit anything but action A regardless if action A is "good" or "evil?"

And how does God knowing affect your decision? Why would it? You could've just as easily NOT chose to post in this thread, but God would've known either way. His knowing was not involved in that decision process.

Originally posted by Lucius
Saying that God is outside of the time stream like some extra-cosmic observer looking at all points of existence at all points in time only makes the problem even worse.

In what way? Considering He is not a part of His creation. He created it from scratch, the very concept of time, and is not bound by those rules unless it pleases Him to be.

Originally posted by MRasheed
The Big Picture and overall destiny of the universe is already written on the grand scale, but your individual part is written only as you make your choices.

Originally posted by Lucius
So, I'm too small to have a pixel on the cosmic image?

😆 YOU are. 😆 😆 j/k

Originally posted by MRasheed
It's not an illusion. You are free to do as you will; choose Good as you please, or choose Bad as you please.

Originally posted by Lucius
This statement doesn't work until you find a way to resolve my above questions.

It doesn't work for who? I'm 100% fine with it. I'm a believer. I don't believe for a second that God is bound by the rules of space/time in any way, shape or form that it would affect or alter our Free Will. There is no problem except what you are struggling with in your own understanding. It is you who need to resolve it, not me.

Originally posted by MRasheed
God is The Most Merciful of those who practice mercy, and The Most Benevolent of those who practice benevolence.

how do you reconcile that with the eternal damnation of good people who don't believe?

for instance: I don't condemn those who believe different than I, I would rather negotiate than fight, I see no reason for those who don't agree with what I believe in to suffer. By definition, God must be more merciful and benevolent than I, so why would he not be able to see past issues of ideology and into the core of a person's value?

Originally posted by inimalist
how do you reconcile that with the eternal damnation of good people who don't believe?

for instance: I don't condemn those who believe different than I, I would rather negotiate than fight, I see no reason for those who don't agree with what I believe in to suffer. By definition, God must be more merciful and benevolent than I, so why would he not be able to see past issues of ideology and into the core of a person's value?

'Good people' obey the Lord that created them. There is no 'good' outside of that. You can't be good and not do what God said, that is not possible.

God is the one who said what is good and what is bad; the rules are His. Your arbitrary rules for what makes someone merciful/benevolent aren't anybody's standard, but God's are. He is the Judge who passes out rewards and punishments as He sees fit based on his superior understanding of all things, not you.

He is the Most Mericiful because He readily forgives the sins of those who repent and strive towards Him, and He forgives again and again. Who are you that your 'mercy' means anything to anyone? What authority do you possess that makes your 'mercy' anywhere near as potent as the Mercy of the Lord of all the Worlds?

so "believe in me or suffer eternally" as an axiom is mercy to you?

'Good people' obey the Lord that created them. There is no 'good' outside of that. You can't be good and not do what God said, that is not possible.

Also the Bible says that "Good and evil" were created by god. So, god created evil and since the Bible states that everything is created for gods own pleasure, he must enjoy that??

Originally posted by Lucius
So, I'm too small to have a pixel on the cosmic image?

That's gold, Jerry. Gold.

Originally posted by inimalist
so "believe in me or suffer eternally" as an axiom is mercy to you?

No, that's an axiom of justice. Mercy is when he forgives me when I make mistakes along the way in trying to please Him.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
So as long as you do good, you don't have to believe in god? There is no good outside of god?

Being good IS belief in God and obedience to Him.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Also the Bible says that "Good [b]and evil" were created by god. So, god created evil and since the Bible states that everything is created for gods own pleasure, he must enjoy that?? [/B]

God did not create evil. He created the folk who choose to perform evil deeds. Evil is brought into the world by the men and women who chose to act it out on earth. God created them, He did not create their deeds.

Originally posted by MRasheed
No, that's an axiom of justice. Mercy is when he forgives me when I make mistakes along the way in trying to please Him.

so why wouldn't he forgive a nonbeliever?

Originally posted by inimalist
so why wouldn't he forgive a nonbeliever?

You just need to see her face, dude.

Originally posted by inimalist
so why wouldn't he forgive a nonbeliever?

The nonbeliever rejected God and excludes himself from the mercy of God. Those are the rules. You want a heaping helping of the largest dose of mercy in the universe?

Believe.

Originally posted by MRasheed
Being good [b]IS belief in God and obedience to Him.

God did not create evil. He created the folk who choose to perform evil deeds. Evil is brought into the world by the men and women who chose to act it out on earth. God created them, He did not create their deeds. [/B]

God did create evil.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

—Isaiah 45:7

Originally posted by MRasheed
No, that's an axiom of justice. Mercy is when he forgives me when I make mistakes along the way in trying to please Him.

I don't think a God that is infinitely unjust is a good thing either.

Originally posted by MRasheed
The nonbeliever rejected God and excludes himself from the mercy of God. Those are the rules. You want a heaping helping of the largest dose of mercy in the universe?

Believe.

but how is it benevolent to deny mercy to someone based on their beliefs?

as humans we see this as benevolent, and if God is supposed to be the most benevolent of all, how could he behave differently?

Originally posted by Deja~vu
God did create evil.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." —Isaiah 45:7

The Holy Qur'an 4:79
(8) Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah, but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as an apostle to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness.

The Holy Qur'an 4:110
(10) If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

No, He didn't.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't think a God that is infinitely unjust is a good thing either.

lol God is not unjust.

Originally posted by MRasheed
lol God is not unjust.

Only an infinitely terrible crime could ever entail and infinitely terrible punishment. And if, for some reason, God believe that disagreeing with him is infinitely terrible then he's unjust from a different direction.

Originally posted by MRasheed
[b]The Holy Qur'an 4:79
(8) Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah, but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as an apostle to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness.

The Holy Qur'an 4:110
(10) If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

No, He didn't. [/B]

I don't believe that the Qur'an believes that Jesus is the Savior, so why quote that book?

Cherry-picking.

Originally posted by BlackC@
It is said that we are tested in all that we do.

Why does God test us? What's the point? It seems like a very mean thing to do.

He doesn´t test us we all have free choice, we test ourselves by doing daft things and gain wisdom by living to deal with situations.