Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I'm of the mind to think Revan's power may have come back gradually, but only because he was slowly regaining his memories. Outside of gameplay, there is nothing besides Malak's statement to show otherwise. Just a point there, tis all.Also, you can't prove to me that he did or didn't fight at most 99.999 % to 10% of the nonstoryline neccessary enemies. Again, look at any of the books, or at the movies... Jedi just don't kill thousands of opponents at once... that is the result of game play neccessity.
True, conflict does make a huge difference, I think that's a good point. But specifically we have no idea of how much it affected Revan or even if he did (Or rather, she did) fight any enemies after Malak. And in keeping in character, Revan was a tactician; it is just as likely that Revan's party outwitted and outsmarted foes as opposed to straight out killing them in a level playing field. Just a thought.
And indeed, why would Kreia be lying? She probably isn't, just as she isn't lying about Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos. But we have to entertain both possibilities behind her words - that they are or aren't right- until we have something better to go on.
Oh I agree, but I also think we should give credit to Revan for the things he can (and 99.9% of time) does. He may be strategic but he also has great power, many people in the game comment on that and he does defeat Malak twice undoubtedly no matter what. I assume he defeated him in direct combat kinda like you assume Ragnos defeated Simus in direct combat, etc. And it's really not assumption that he gets stronger from the Leviathan, in game mechanics (simply that he gets stronger, not how, in what category, when, or anything else), natural logic, Malak's quote (and indeed, why would he be lying if he still thinks he'll win?) and things that happen in the game.
And we know he gets stronger after KOTOR simply from the fact that Bastila says he recovered his full memories which would have all the knowledge he plundered on Malachor V, the Jedi Acadedmies, possibly Korriban, most likely strategies, and knowledge of other things as well.
Oh and NJO Luke was very nearly killed by a Yuuzhan Vong warrior pretending to be the supreme overlord. Granted he was really tough, and Luke did win, but he's not all that god like.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I'm of the mind to think Revan's power may have come back gradually, but only because he was slowly regaining his memories. Outside of gameplay, there is nothing besides Malak's statement to show otherwise. Just a point there, tis all.Also, you can't prove to me that he did or didn't fight at most 99.999 % to 10% of the nonstoryline neccessary enemies. Again, look at any of the books, or at the movies... Jedi just don't kill thousands of opponents at once... that is the result of game play neccessity.
True, conflict does make a huge difference, I think that's a good point. But specifically we have no idea of how much it affected Revan or even if he did (Or rather, she did) fight any enemies after Malak. And in keeping in character, Revan was a tactician; it is just as likely that Revan's party outwitted and outsmarted foes as opposed to straight out killing them in a level playing field. Just a thought.
And indeed, why would Kreia be lying? She probably isn't, just as she isn't lying about Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos. But we have to entertain both possibilities behind her words - that they are or aren't right- until we have something better to go on.
You are so wrong about those memory's...
He didn't regain anything more then he already had. Well not a lot, and he never would. Thats what everybody said, everybody that could know. The things that returned to him were just not destroyed and it wouldn't make him any stronger because it were just a few memory's. Revan his true power only returned after the Star Forge when he found out a way against all odds to make his memory return, even when everybody thought it was impossible because it was destroyed. Which also kinda proves how smart he was, when everybody says he can never regain his memory and he does. He somehow managed to make a destroyed mind whole again, you would need some amazing powers and a brilliant mind to do that.
Anyways back to the point, Revan got a lot stronger after the Star Forge because he regained the knowledge he had before Malak his betrayal. Meaning his fight against Malak was in a far weaker state then he would be some time later.
Originally posted by Fishy
You are so wrong about those memory's...He didn't regain anything more then he already had. Well not a lot, and he never would. Thats what everybody said, everybody that could know. The things that returned to him were just not destroyed and it wouldn't make him any stronger because it were just a few memory's. Revan his true power only returned after the Star Forge when he found out a way against all odds to make his memory return, even when everybody thought it was impossible because it was destroyed. Which also kinda proves how smart he was, when everybody says he can never regain his memory and he does. He somehow managed to make a destroyed mind whole again, you would need some amazing powers and a brilliant mind to do that.
Anyways back to the point, Revan got a lot stronger after the Star Forge because he regained the knowledge he had before Malak his betrayal. Meaning his fight against Malak was in a far weaker state then he would be some time later.
Exactly, and if he beat Malak (who's considered stronger than Sidious) twice in a row and then gets much stronger he's got to be bad ass.
Originally posted by Fishy
You are so wrong about those memory's...He didn't regain anything more then he already had. Well not a lot, and he never would. Thats what everybody said, everybody that could know. The things that returned to him were just not destroyed and it wouldn't make him any stronger because it were just a few memory's. Revan his true power only returned after the Star Forge when he found out a way against all odds to make his memory return, even when everybody thought it was impossible because it was destroyed. Which also kinda proves how smart he was, when everybody says he can never regain his memory and he does. He somehow managed to make a destroyed mind whole again, you would need some amazing powers and a brilliant mind to do that.
Anyways back to the point, Revan got a lot stronger after the Star Forge because he regained the knowledge he had before Malak his betrayal. Meaning his fight against Malak was in a far weaker state then he would be some time later.
Fishy, you're cool. And so is Emperor... DOn't take anything I say offensively
But I didn't make two cents out of anything you said in that first paragraph, and what I did kinda sorta make sense out of is totally unsupported.
So if you can reword that and provide some good support, I'll comment.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Fishy, you're cool. And so is Emperor... DOn't take anything I say offensivelyBut I didn't make two cents out of anything you said in that first paragraph, and what I did kinda sorta make sense out of is totally unsupported.
So if you can reword that and provide some good support, I'll comment.
He's saying Revan barely had any of his old memories (if at all) during KOTOR. So barely any knowledge of the Jedi, Sith, and more. After he regains his full memories, he gets much stronger from all the knowledge he plundered from the Jedi academies, Malachor V, possibly Korriban, most likely some battle strategies and more.
Hmm well that, and sorry for being so vague but I wrote that in a hurry.
What I was trying to say was this,
Everybody said Revan could never regain his memory because it was destroyed.
Somehow he did, in less then a year.
Probably six months or so considering what Bastila says on Korriban in the holocon.
Meaning Revan found a way to repair destroyed minds against all odds, everybody thought it was impossible but he pulled it off.
Even with help from the Star Forge it would be quite the achievement, because there is no evidence the Star Forge stores force techniques.
So that would mean Revan discovered or created a force technique that masters have called impossible, and they probably had some experience in it.