Fantastic Four vs X-Men

Originally posted by Creshosk

We don't know. It seems doubtful

Look. In spite of whatever other random comments you want to make. If you're going to ignore everything else I say to help your 'argument', at least listen to this. Not between the lines, ok? Just the lines.

What you have quoted above, is EXACTLY what I am saying. It's not guaranteed that Emma will mindwipe and end the fight in a microsecond. In fact, 'plot device' 😉 or not, there is evidence that it can go the other way.

What are you arguing against if you agree with my point?

You're arguing against the things you yourself decided I was saying.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom

Do each of the steps all take the same amount of time? For Emma and Sue?

Thanks for bringing that up, that's actually a really good point.

the mental formation of an invisible object would actually take much longer (relatively speaking) than simply identifying a target.

That makes it even worse for Sue.

Originally posted by demigawd
Nobody is saying anything is certain.

The rest doesn't matter. It's not countering what I'm saying because that's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes but she still must focus it isn't instant for her. She has to focus on Sue think of the attack by focusing then the attack happens

Why?

Attack starts, and processes at the speed of thought.

Originally posted by Creshosk
How did you get that from my post?

The discussion is who is faster. The resistance one was in another chain of responses.

And no, you don't have resistance to Sue's forefeilds.

If Emma attacks rather than talks, and Sue still takes her out. Would be a better indicator than Emma talks and Sue attacks.

But that's not what happened. In order to give Sue the win, Emma didn't even attack. She talked.

Originally posted by demigawd
Thanks for bringing that up, that's actually a really good point.

the mental formation of an invisible object would actually take much longer (relatively speaking) than simply identifying a target.

That makes it even worse for Sue.

Yes, if we decide that they've both followed your pre-determined Three Steps to Good Victory Plan.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Look. In spite of whatever other random comments you want to make. If you're going to ignore everything else I say to help your 'argument', at least listen to this. Not between the lines, ok? Just the lines.

What you have quoted above, is EXACTLY what I am saying. It's not guaranteed that Emma will mindwipe and end the fight in a microsecond. In fact, 'plot device' 😉 or not, there is evidence that it can go the other way.

What are you arguing against if you agree with my point?

You're arguing against the things you yourself decided I was saying.

We have no evidence.

Originally posted by Creshosk
As soon as she starts the attack, (she doesn't need to focus before hand since she's already identified the target.) speed of thought later, the attack already hit.

Why?

Attack starts, and processes at the speed of thought.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Yes, if we decide that they've both followed your pre-determined Three Steps to Good Victory Plan.

When Sue is forming the object in her mind, Emma is already attacking.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Don't bother.

Yes, that's right. Is it guaranteed that she will wipe them out before they do anything? Guaranteed? Factual?

Am I saying anything else?

Don't reply about odds. Tell me if it's a stonecold fact that Emma will mindwipe them before anything else happens. If the answer is no, we agree. Anything else is at cross purposes.

I'm honestly not sure what we're debating at this point. It seems you've abandoned actually defending the FF and somehow turned this into a, "well, there are lots of ways this could go, no point in saying anything is definite" speech, and I don't think anybody is disagreeing with you.

So what do you want us to do? Say, "ok, if Emma mindblasted them, then the X-men wins, but if she DOESN'T, let's talk about THAT now". I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious.

Plot device or no, you have no proof that what you posit will happen.

The annoying thing is, both of you agree with this, yet you seem to be arguing against some phantom opponent, and telling me about odds and such, like I'm disagreeing.

Originally posted by newjak86
As coiuld Sue's as her powers are activated by thinking as well and no one can say they take longer to use then thought.

Originally posted by demigawd
I'm honestly not sure what we're debating at this point.

Yes, I've been pointing that out for the last 10 pointless posts.

Originally posted by demigawd

It seems you've abandoned actually defending the FF and somehow turned this into a, "well, there are lots of ways this could go, no point in saying anything is definite" speech, and I don't think anybody is disagreeing with you.

They aren't, people are trying to score points against a pretend argument. I was never defending the FF except to the point of saying 'Hang on...are they definitely going to lose in a millisecond? Or might the fight go in another direction.'

Originally posted by demigawd

So what do you want us to do? Say, "ok, if Emma mindblasted them, then the X-men wins, but if she DOESN'T, let's talk about THAT now". I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious.

It would be nice if we could entertain the notion that the fight could go other ways, yes.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Plot device or no, you have no proof that what you posit will happen.

The plot device amplifies this. Why have Emma talk about what she was going to do instead of doing it?

Because sue was supposed to win.

That means that Sue with plot device beat Emma.

The plot device is not present.

Does she need the plot device to win?

If not, then why was it used?

Originally posted by newjak86
Actually choosing the attack and conjuring up the image of an attack are the same for Sue by the way.

Sometimes, yes, which I addressed when I said "three or four, depending upon which attack she chooses", but that's still a third step, which Emma doesn't have to go through.

No matter what you say Emma still has to focus then the effect or attack happens.

She doesn't. It's a mindblast. She doesn't have to focus or form or choose, just launch. It's green lantern forming and shooting an AK-47 vs. Punisher who already has one. Punisher gets the shot off first, no matter how quickly GL can form the AK-47. Sue needs to form the object, that's always going to be an extra step over someone who doesn't need formation time to attack.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Sue has to form the object in her mind. When this step is done Emma will already have attacked.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Sue has to form the object in her mind. When this step is done Emma will already have attacked.

In theory.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes but we agrre that they both identify the target first.
Now then Emma must focus on using her powers

Identification of the target also includes Identifying the target is indeed a target.

Both of them have to go through this.

While Sue is forming the object in her mind, Emma is attacking.

No identifying the target is looking at them or locating them first. Then see must focus on her power.

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's based on how their powers work, that it seems like this is in Emma's favor.

The plot device amplifies this. Why have Emma talk about what she was going to do instead of doing it?

Because sue was supposed to win.

That means that Sue with plot device beat Emma.

The plot device is not present.

Does she need the plot device to win?

If not, then why was it used?

Jesus. Like I said, plot device OR NO.

You're still saying 'it seems like' it's in Emma's favour. That's not a definite- therefore there are other possibilities.