Originally posted by Draco69
Wonder Woman can certainly break her shields. Much like Thor, Hulk and even Luke Cage has. The only reason that particular Celestial was hurt was because it was specifically vulnerable to the energy of Sue's forcefield. A couple of punches from near-Superman strength would shatter her shields and induce a massive psychic backlash that would leave her open to attack.Also, her lasso can dispel forcefields.
Invisibility won't work against Diana since she can see the 'truth'. Meaning Sue will still be visible to her. How do you think Diana can use the Invisible Plane? She can SEE it that's why.
Oh She can eventually... If IW sits around and lets her.....
IMO while WW is pounding away IW has plenty of time to find ways to kill her.
Yeah he was god damn Exitar.. he may have had a small weakness but it still a god damn celestial. Trying to lowball that feat is not acceptable.
Again IW and the rest are fighting at their best just like WW.
Um Plane is of her own creation. I don't know how "sees" the truth works but unless you give me another example of a invisible person being detected and beat by WW we can drop that Plane example. I mean if I made a invisible plane, of course I will have it so I can see it somehow.
How does the lasso dispel forcefields? Do you have a scan or something. I never knew it could do that.
Anyway WW can't handle just IW. She would be either busy taking care of the rest of the F4, during that time IW would kill her. Or WW decided to try and focus on IW the other 3 would injure her.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Oh She can eventually... If IW sits around and lets her.....
IMO while WW is pounding away IW has plenty of time to find ways to kill her.
Sit around? How long do you think it will take her to break that shield? Not very - a few hits should do it and she is using her speed remember. No one on that team can counteract her speed.
She also fought the JLA, including Flash and MM, while blindfolded. An invisible enemy is not going to trouble her. I also wonder if the sight of Athena would allow her to see IW anyway. I'm not sure about that though.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Oh She can eventually... If IW sits around and lets her.....
IMO while WW is pounding away IW has plenty of time to find ways to kill her.
WW is simply too fast. Imagine a punch from WW at normal speed.
Now imagine a punch from Diana at speeds faster than sound.
Same physics as a speeding car.
It would take a few hits at the most to break her shields.
Or just dispel it with her lasso if she wants to be cheap.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Yeah he was god damn Exitar.. he may have had a small weakness but it still a god damn celestial. Trying to lowball that feat is not acceptable.
Um, no. The plot revolved around the seemlingly unstoppable Celestial having a convienent weakness to Sue's forcefield.
It's like Batman suddenly having a Kryptonite ring.
Doesn't mean he's capable of beating Superman.
Nor does it make it an admissiable feat for him either.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Again IW and the rest are fighting at their best just like WW.
The only way the FF can win if neither is fighting their best.
If they're fighting their best, they die and rather quickly.
Ben gets sent to orbit.
Johnny gets one-shotted.
And Reed gets turned into goo.
Leaving Sue to be the last one standing. And she'll fall rather quickly too.
Her forcefields simply can't withstand her strength much less her strength with superspeed behind it.
And she can't track a person whizzing all over the place at speeds approaching light.
Sue's screwed. And that's if Diana decides not to use any of her toyes either.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Um Plane is of her own creation. I don't know how "sees" the truth works but unless you give me another example of a invisible person being detected and beat by WW we can drop that Plane example. I mean if I made a invisible plane, of course I will have it so I can see it somehow.
Wrong. The Invisible Plane isn't really a plane it's a sentinent alien being from the Ring. Imagine living, invisible, GL plasma.
The ONLY reason it was given to her was because she could SEE it when no one else could.
Because she can see 'truth'. She see behind illusions, mirages or invisibility. Making Sue's invisibility useless because she'll see her as bright as day.
One consistantly invisible foe she fights is Trinity.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
How does the lasso dispel forcefields? Do you have a scan or something. I never knew it could do that.
It's never been explained 'how' it dispels forcefields other than it 'burns' it away.
It's been recently seen dispelling GL's forcefields.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Anyway WW can't handle just IW. She would be either busy taking care of the rest of the F4, during that time IW would kill her. Or WW decided to try and focus on IW the other 3 would injure her.
Sue simply can't handle Diana for the same reason she couldn't handle Superman, Captain Marvel or Black Adam. She's on a whole 'nother league.
And how would the other 3 hurt her? The only one who can possibly do any damage is the Human Torch. And that's a big maybe since she's survived the Sun....
And I haven't brought up the lasso's new ability to soul-dump which would end the battle instantly.
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Sit around? How long do you think it will take her to break that shield? Not very - a few hits should do it and she is using her speed remember. No one on that team can counteract her speed.She also fought the JLA, including Flash and MM, while blindfolded. An invisible enemy is not going to trouble her. I also wonder if the sight of Athena would allow her to see IW anyway. I'm not sure about that though.
Long Enough for IW to kill her. 😉
The feat that you said was in a controlled environment where they had no intention on killing her. They were just testing her. Still not a bad feat but it's not like WW can compete with either of them going all out much less both of them.
Still not sure about if WW can see IW and her constructs.
Granted that they were posessed but she still took on Absorbing Man, Titania, She-Hulk, and Thing. I know WW is stronger than all of them but still she beat them by herself
(crap hope this pic post thing works)
Invisible Woman is well capable of dealing with them if she were truly bloodlusted.
However, the only thing Diana and those goons have in common is that they all have super-strength.
That's it.
That's as far as the comparison goes.
Diana isn't DC's She-Hulk....
She's Xena with Superman's speed and strength.
Originally posted by Wynndar
That was more like Invisible Girl. MOdern INvisible Woman was the leader of the FF for a period and led the FF against Hyperstorm instead of Reed even though he was present. If she can lead against someone as powerful as Hyperstorm (makes WW look like snoopy) then I think she can mount an attack against WW. Once again the FF haters make a thread and an argument on the pretense that a DC character with totally vaguely defined speed abilites is going to speed blitz them even though the same character gets pummelled all the time in her comics with no regard to the speed blitz. If WW is bludlusting and speed blitzing then IW turns the whole FF invisible, expands forcfields inside of WW brain while protecting herself, Grimm, and Reed, while the Torch vaporizes her with his hottest flame. Ironically, Torch fits right in fighting the DC guys cuz his upper temperatures are unknown and he has demonstrated he can melt anything, even an Adamantium like metal created by the race of BEYONDERS...So I think he would WW burnt.
Well, speaking as both a WW fan and a guy that goes to Marvel Digital and reads all the FF stuff, yeah WW would speedblitz for the same reason any character that could do it would do it here, because the main reason not to is story considerations, making an exciting fight out of one that should be drastically one sided. No PIS here.
But in this case, the only reason she would need to speedblitz is because the IW might be able to get her otherwise. If we eliminate both a WW speedblitz and an IW brain bubble, the resulting WW win is inevitable.
But what is vaguely defined about her speed? You mean the inconsistency in power level shared by, well, by all comic characters? That's why we have them all fighting at their best to prevent the bias of people reducing one character to less than optimal while another operates at optimal level to play favorites.
Originally posted by Wynndar
u can say im making pro FF and Anti DC all u want...but Draco ur one of the biggest DC fanboys on hereLike I said, WW is turned into a hot mess and the Thing and Reed dont even have to leave the house.
Because you say so. Meanwhile, the others have reasons based on evidence.
Originally posted by Wynndar
U have a poor understanding of the FF. Sue was able to at least temporarily destroy Exitar the Celestial...She wouldnt consider WW any more of a "god" than Balder. Like I said before, your speed blitz is unlikely, otherwise WW wouldnt have any difficulty with the lame villains that routinely grace the pages of JLA. WW is immune to fire so what? Who said that the torch's most intense temperatures remotely resembled fire. Like I said, If he can damage the BEYONDERS metal he will vaporize diana.
Yeah and the Flash wouldn't have any trouble with the Trickster. Boy does the Flash have trouble with a bunch of lame villains. If only he had superspeed all the time. Read the rules. All characters fight at their best.
Originally posted by Wynndar
Exactly, they just rely on the unlikely speed blitz and try to set up a situation where the FF would lose. Notice how the scenerio revolves around facilitating a speed blitz. Regardless, what if the FF blitz her? What if they r invisible? what if Diana has force fields in her brain?By the way thanks for the Wynndie comment Draco, that was really mature...As usual Im impressed that u can act like such a biiiig boooy.
They are incapable of speedblitzing her. They don't have the power to do it. It doesn't take any work to "set up" a situation where the FF would lose. They are badly outpowered. You are accusing others of doing precisely what you are doing. You would have to set up a situation totally slanted in their favor for them to get a win.
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
A lot of good arguments here on both sides. I'm more of a Marvel fan though I gotta say WW takes this. The argument why has been given several times by several people. I deliberately said no prep time when I started this thread. Given prep, even a few hours, Reed Richards would likely devise a plan to enable the FF to win. Given no prep however I say the FF don't have a prayer.
Oh I completely agree. Given any prep time, Reed is a god among gods. With prep, Reed wins it.
Originally posted by BobbyD
Guys, the thread states CAN she win. I believe she CAN win. Is this a guaranteed victory? Absolutely not. Remember something about these vs threads, we're trying to predict outcomes. Thus, there are several circumstances to this. I think under the given scenario, this favors WW though.And guys, since when did we create WW to sound like Flash.
Gosh, let's just have her speed blitz Thor all day to death.She does need to recoil and follow through after punching the Thing. Who says her blow is a 100 ton punch in the first place? Isn't it one's nature to not waste all your powers on one guy when taking on four simultaneously? As intelligent as she is, she may retract/hold back a little to save some of her stamina. She doesn't know anything about the other 3? Wouldn't she conserve some of that ferocity/strenth for the other 3? This may give everyone else the nano-second to do their trick.
All in all, it's a great matchup, Drac. Anytime, you can get people to get passionate about their favorite characters, it's a great thread.
Wonder Woman is not Flash level but she is above light speed.
She is proven a Class 100 strength over and over.
Remember all the contestants have basic knowledge of each other. So to say she has no knowledge of who they are is not true. They have basic knowledge of her too.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Long Enough for IW to kill her. 😉The feat that you said was in a controlled environment where they had no intention on killing her. They were just testing her. Still not a bad feat but it's not like WW can compete with either of them going all out much less both of them.
Still not sure about if WW can see IW and her constructs.
Granted that they were posessed but she still took on Absorbing Man, Titania, She-Hulk, and Thing. I know WW is stronger than all of them but still she beat them by herself
No.
You need to show me IW beating someone with WW's speed AND strength. That feat, while impressive, doesn't shed light onto this fight because none of those guys/gals have anything close to Diana's speed. They also don't have her training, experience, knowledge, weapons, etc.
It does not matter that it was a controlled environment. You claim that Diana is hampered because she won't be able to see IW. Putting aside the fact that she will probably be able to see her anyway, I've shown you that Diana doesn't need to see to fight her enemies. Remember when she blinded herself to fight Medusa?
And again, you need to show me how Sue does anything to Diana given her speed. Long enough to kill her? How long do you think it will take Diana to land a few blows on that force field. If you you've counted above a couple seconds, then you've gone too far.
With her speed and no prep for the FF, I do not see how they win. You've got to show me how IW counteracts Diana's considerable speed advantage. The other 3 don't stand a chance.
