Sidious or Dooku?

Am I pushing Illustrious's buttons? Tell me, Sorgo, where did I insult him or goad him? No where. I've remained civil throughout the entire discussion. I didn't slander nor call Illustrious's argument crappy when he said Sidious used the Force to cloud the mind of the Jedi Masters who went in to bring him in. Now did I?

Faunus, lol, I'm going by Illustrious's logic. I personally don't believe Yoda would lose. Eventually, he'd outmaneuver Sidious. He displays more confidence and courage than Sidious does.

Umm dooku disarmed mace's saber when the were sparring, so according to that, mace would have beaten him if he didnet!? No, dooku was far better than mace, if your a great duelist it doesnt matter if you pull off a cheap shot.

Now. All I would like is for you to remain simple. If you cannot argue without insulting someone else's rebuttle, you really ought not argue at all. Sorgo, the same goes for you. You tend to also insult and slander people for fun.

I debate by the rules. If you argue with me, you will do it peacefully. It's all I ask.

Read your last statement. Was that NOT bashing? There, you WERE insulting my person. So, I suppose I will have to be the tattletale, if it is to ensure the rules. Perhaps you believe that the rules shouldn't be upheld if YOU violate them, then?

Did you not read MY last statement? I said, point out, specifically, where I was bashing you. Not only do you fail to do this, you simply circumvent the circumstances and play victim again. It doesn't quite have the same luster the nth time around, now does it?

Mace DID disarm Sidious. Fair and square. That is true. But it's not my point - nor was I denying that. The fact that Mace KICKED Sidious's lightsaber away is perfectly fine. But that doesn't mean he is the superior duelist.

So what does "superior duelist" show anything? The fact is, it was a fair fight, and the kick was perfectly inside the boundaries. Do you want to compare which of the two is a "superior farter" now too? What does superior dueling have anything to do with anything if he's not the superior fighter? Again, you're twisting around parameters.

I also like how you ignore every point made, and then respond by playing victim and arguing semantics. Real great debating there.

Admiral Ackbar, again, you're inferring.

I didn't state Sidious was the superior duelist. I said that Windu used a kick to disarm him, not any outmaneuvering of the blade. I said this is not enough to warrant Mace as the superior DUELIST. Then, like I said, Palpatine never broke through Mace's defenses either.

Hence why I did not label HIM the greater duelist, either.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Did you not read MY last statement? I said, point out, specifically, where I was bashing you. Not only do you fail to do this, you simply circumvent the circumstances and play victim again. It doesn't quite have the same luster the nth time around, now does it?

So what does "superior duelist" show anything? The fact is, it was a fair fight, and the kick was perfectly inside the boundaries. Do you want to compare which of the two is a "superior farter" now too? What does superior dueling have anything to do with anything if he's not the superior fighter? Again, you're twisting around parameters.

I also like how you ignore every point made, and then respond by playing victim and arguing semantics. Real great debating there.

1. The very last statement of your paragraph.

2. I'm not saying Mace was NOT the superior FIGHTER. I'm not saying Sidious threw the fight. I am simply musing on the multiple possibilities. Now, I did that for a reason. Most people said Mace was the better duelist. I disagree. He won the fight, but not through superior dueling skills.

Am I pushing Illustrious's buttons? Tell me, Sorgo, where did I insult him or goad him? No where. I've remained civil throughout the entire discussion. I didn't slander nor call Illustrious's argument crappy when he said Sidious used the Force to cloud the mind of the Jedi Masters who went in to bring him in. Now did I?

I ask, no I dare you to find reason to call my argument crappy. Tell me where I use FALSE LOGIC, like you did, or CHANGE PARAMETERS, like you did, to justify my argument, please.

Point is, you use logical fallacy. Logical fallacy = bad debating. Period. It's a law of debating. If you aren't prepared to debate, don't post.

Faunus, lol, I'm going by Illustrious's logic. I personally don't believe Yoda would lose. Eventually, he'd outmaneuver Sidious. He displays more confidence and courage than Sidious does.

And when did Faunus post?

I didn't say Yoda didn't lose to Sidious. However, it was clear Sidious used the highground advantage, and on level terrain, WHICH THE OFFICE FIGHT WAS, Sidious may not have won. Mace beat Sidious on level ground, what do you have to say for that?

Now. All I would like is for you to remain simple. If you cannot argue without insulting someone else's rebuttle, you really ought not argue at all. Sorgo, the same goes for you. You tend to also insult and slander people for fun.

I debate by the rules. If you argue with me, you will do it peacefully. It's all I ask.

You don't know the first thing about debate, do you?

I can insult your rebuttal and your points all I bloody please. I'm not insulting your person, so stop playing victim here.

See, Illustrious.

I agree that Mace bested Sidious. I agree Mace was the superior fighter, hands down. I agree that he disarmed and outmaneuvered Sidious. But not with his blade. If we are trying to declare the superior duelist, then it wouldn't necessarily be Mace.

I disagree with you when you assume Mace is the superior duelist. What he did was NOT out of bounds. But like I said, lol, it doesn't make him the superior DUELIST.

Last paragraph, you mean this?

I also like how you ignore every point made, and then respond by playing victim and arguing semantics. Real great debating there.

How is that insulting your person? You DID ignore every point I made. You DID play victim, by repeated saying you'd report me because I'm somehow "insulting you." And you DID argue semantics with the duelist vs. the combatant point.

That concludes POOR debating.

I agree that Mace bested Sidious. I agree Mace was the superior fighter, hands down. I agree that he disarmed and outmaneuvered Sidious. But not with his blade. If we are trying to declare the superior duelist, then it wouldn't necessarily be Mace.

I disagree with you when you assume Mace is the superior duelist. What he did was NOT out of bounds. But like I said, lol, it doesn't make him the superior DUELIST.

Again, if he's not the superior duelist, he still managed to win. How does that mean anything, then? If Sidious is the superior duelist and LOST, what does that do for him. Like I said, are you going to argue Sidious is a the superior farter too?

Originally posted by Illustrious
I ask, no I dare you to find reason to call my argument crappy. Tell me where I use FALSE LOGIC, like you did, or CHANGE PARAMETERS, like you did, to justify my argument, please.

Point is, you use logical fallacy. Logical fallacy = bad debating. Period. It's a law of debating. If you aren't prepared to debate, don't post.

And when did Faunus post?

I didn't say Yoda didn't lose to Sidious. However, it was clear Sidious used the highground advantage, and on level terrain, WHICH THE OFFICE FIGHT WAS, Sidious may not have won. Mace beat Sidious on level ground, what do you have to say for that?

You don't know the first thing about debate, do you?

I can insult your rebuttal and your points all I bloody please. I'm not insulting your person, so stop playing victim here.

1. I could call your argument crappy when you said that Sidious used the Force to cloud the minds of his Jedi attackers, that he sprung up on them and caught them by surprise. I've offered you proof that shows they were prepared to take him by force. They had their blades ignited first. He STOOD UP - withdrew his blade - ignited it - uttered a line of villainy - and THEN flipped over the desk.

He did NOT catch them by surprise.

2. Like I said. I'm NOT saying Mace did NOT beat Sidious fair and square. I said what he did does not label him the superior duelist. Just the superior fighter.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Point out, specifically, where I insult you? I insult your worthless argument, that is all. If you can't hold a good argument without playing the victim, don't bother trying to debate. Your incessant tattletale attitude is really annoying.

THIS is where you insulted me, lol. The rest was slanderous remarks as well. But I agree. Not specifically on myself.

1. I could call your argument crappy when you said that Sidious used the Force to cloud the minds of his Jedi attackers, that he sprung up on them and caught them by surprise. I've offered you proof that shows they were prepared to take him by force. They had their blades ignited first. He STOOD UP - withdrew his blade - ignited it - uttered a line of villainy - and THEN flipped over the desk.

He did NOT catch them by surprise.

Again, I countered this. Like I said, simply because they were prepared to fight does not mean they were EXPECTING said attack. You clearly don't have much martial arts experience if you believe this as true.

2. Like I said. I'm NOT saying Mace did NOT beat Sidious fair and square. I said what he did does not label him the superior duelist. Just the superior fighter.

Again, I've answered this many times, it's a debate of semantics, and ultimately is irrelevant considering MACE BEAT SIDIOUS.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Again, I countered this. Like I said, simply because they were prepared to fight does not mean they were EXPECTING said attack. You clearly don't have much martial arts experience if you believe this as true.

Again, I've answered this many times, it's a debate of semantics, and ultimately is irrelevant considering MACE BEAT SIDIOUS.

1. No. You said he used the Force to cloud their minds. Like he used the Force on them to put them at a disadvantage. They couldn't beat him. THAT is a debate of sematics. And is ultimately irrelevant considering SIDIOUS BEAT THEM. Lol cool, ain't it?

2. No kidding. For the umpteenth time, what I wanted you to see is that while Mace defeated Sidious - he didn't do it through superior dueling ability. My goal wasn't to say or to even insinuate that Mace cheated. He didn't. But he wasn't the greater duelist by his actions, either.

THIS is where you insulted me, lol. The rest was slanderous remarks as well. But I agree. Not specifically on myself.

Really, way to grasp at straws again. Let's break this down:

I insult your worthless argument, that is all.

Fact. That is what I did.

If you can't hold a good argument without playing the victim, don't bother trying to debate.

Again, notice the word that says: "if". I'm telling you to STOP playing the victim and debate. If you can't, don't bother posting. Period.

Your incessant tattletale attitude is really annoying.

Again. Fact. To me, and various others, your attitude is very annoying.

None of that is attacking you. So if (since you missed it the first time) you have the nerves of a 13 year old girl, don't bother playing victim, just stop posting unless you want more of your argument being slammed in your face (and more of the "insulting"😉.

Illustrious, you gotta understand. I like Sidious. I do, you know that. But that doesn't mean I'm going to say he won something when he didn't. He LOST to Mace.

And yet at the same time, I'm not going to let you make assumptions that Sidious used the Force and cheated, and only wins battles through "catching people off guard".

Sidious won all of his battles. All of them. Not necessarily the DUELS, but the battles.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Really, way to grasp at straws again. Let's break this down:

Fact. That is what I did.

Again, notice the word that says: "if". I'm telling you to STOP playing the victim and debate. If you can't, don't bother posting. Period.

Again. Fact. To me, and various others, your attitude is very annoying.

None of that is attacking you. So [b]if (since you missed it the first time) you have the nerves of a 13 year old girl, don't bother playing victim, just stop posting unless you want more of your argument being slammed in your face (and more of the "insulting"😉. [/B]

Your last statement is where you reveal all of your arrogance. You assume because you and an assortment of people - including Sorgo - agree on something, it must be fact. It's not. You made an opinion. An insult. TO ME.

1. No. You said he used the Force to cloud their minds. Like he used the Force on them to put them at a disadvantage. They couldn't beat him. THAT is a debate of sematics. And is ultimately irrelevant considering SIDIOUS BEAT THEM. Lol cool, ain't it?

Again, different situation. I'm not trying to claim that Sidious "isn't the better duelist" and that he's the "better fighter" like you did. I never claimed those three were better than Sidious, end of discussion. You're twisting of the words means nothing.

Besides, the initial debate is of CIRCUMSTANCE, not of semantics.

2. No kidding. For the umpteenth time, what I wanted you to see is that while Mace defeated Sidious - he didn't do it through superior dueling ability. My goal wasn't to say or to even insinuate that Mace cheated. He didn't. But he wasn't the greater duelist by his actions, either.

Sheesh. Did you not read what I typed for the last 5 posts? It's a debate of semantics, and is irrelevant.

Mace beat Sidious. It doesn't matter if Mace is the better duelist or not. Trying to substitute wording is simply playing a game of semantics.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Your last statement is where you reveal all of your arrogance. You assume because you and an assortment of people - including Sorgo - agree on something, it must be fact. It's not. You made an opinion. An insult. TO ME.

Guess what? Annoyance is a FACT based on OPINION.

Unless you weren't aware, you can't measure annoyance, considering its an INTANGIBILITY. However, your attitude IS annoying to me, and to many others, hence force when I say it is annoying, it is a fact. It doesn't mean YOU think it's annoying. Way to circumvent the discussion again.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Guess what? Annoyance is a FACT based on OPINION.

Unless you weren't aware, you can't measure annoyance, considering its an INTANGIBILITY. However, your attitude IS annoying to me, and to many others, hence force when I say it is annoying, it is a fact. It doesn't mean YOU think it's annoying. Way to circumvent the discussion again.

Based on opinion. There you go. Which nullifies the FACT part.

So no. When you say I'm annoying, you're expressing an opinion. Nothing more.

So. Illustrious, do me a favor.

When you argue or debate - act like a professional. Or at least an adult. If you are, or acted like one, you'd see that there's a big chance you're not right. There's also a big chance I'm not right. Lucas is the only right one in this.

I treat my musings as opinions only. Which is, sadly, what yours is as well. I know it's probably hard for you to hear, but it is true. You're good. But you have absolutely no sense of etiquette or plain manners. You and Sorgo, as skilled as you are, need to learn that.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Hell. It's just all opinions. I don't have the real authority to say you're wrong. You may, in retrospect, very well be right.

But stop thinking Sidious is weak. I've never seen you ONCE defend the guy or his accomplishments. I'm beginning to believe you think Gunray could beat him.

Dooku and Sidious are good. But Sidious was the master, and Dooku's own fear and awe of Sidious are enough to warrant me that Dooku was obviously not so confident to take him on. That and just a plan lack of damn ambition.

That is my opinion. Which is on a level equal to anyone elses.