The Phoenix Force: Where does it say in any comic Phoenix is part of God?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not quite sure what you mean but either way the replacement of the abstracts and LT was something verified by Eternity to be part of the natural order. He talked of Stranger wanting to speed up the process and bring it about on his own terms. Stranger said Phoenix was the key to his plans the "touchstone". Through Phoenix he hoped to collapse reality and emerge as the supreme being. That swhen he visualised this happening just before Eternity verified it.

You wanted to equate a visualisation to a literal feat. 😕

Stranger uses the PF (according to you) ------------thing for that do happen he whould have to use PF.

what am saying is PF is just that energy which can be used by anyone.

THe allowed part where are you getting that.

in that visualisation Stranger used the PF did he not ( at least according to you)

Originally posted by kgkg
he triggered the Big Bang.

without bunny there whould be no Big Bang = no PF

KG you're now stretching for points to try and come out on top. Stop theres no need just a lil debate.

Phoenix is a constant in Marvel bringing about Big Bang after Big Bang as shown in X-men Forever, Excalibur and many more.

Youre talking like it was created at the moment of the Big Bang. It existed before 616 obviously KG. It created Eternity who would in turn trigger the Big Bang the creation of the new universe, his release from the cosmic egg and bonded Galactus to the cosmic egg after having protected him from the death of the old universe.

We cool? 😉

Originally posted by kgkg
Stranger uses the PF (according to you) ------------thing for that do happen he whould have to use PF.

what am saying is PF is just that energy which can be used by anyone.

THe allowed part where are you getting that.

in that visualisation Stranger used the PF did he not ( at least according to you)

The visualisation is what would happen IF Stranger used the power bearing in mind what the power brings about naturally. He never actually did use the power so all of this is irrelevant.

As the energies of creation all power would stem from the Phoenix Force so all energy manipulators would be using the power indirectly however avatars gain their power direct from the source and have a special affinity with the power of creation. They have genetic mutations to use the power so assumedly not just anyone can tap directly into the power. Thats why Stranger wanted to use Jean thats why he called her the touchstone of his plans. However he never actually did do that so this is irrelvant KG

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
KG you're now stretching for points to try and come out on top. Stop theres no need just a lil debate.

Phoenix is a constant in Marvel bringing about Big Bang after Big Bang as shown in X-men Forever, Excalibur and many more.

Youre talking like it was created at the moment of the Big Bang. It existed before 616 obviously KG. It created Eternity who would in turn trigger the Big Bang the creation of the new universe, his release from the cosmic egg and bonded Galactus to the cosmic egg after having protected him from the death of the old universe.

We cool? 😉

It said creation ............. well now you say 616 but Forever etc was talking about just that creation of one Universe.

I have asked for evidence of PF existence before the Big Bang I haven't the only thing I got from you is Creation.

Well Creation most times means Universe.

You always argued that everything else is the byproduct of 616 Universe.

This debate is getting old we been through the same thing over and over again.

Originally posted by kgkg
That’s my point

It said creation ............. well now you say 616 but Forever etc was talking about just that creation of one Universe.

I have asked for evidence of PF existence before the Big Bang I haven't the only thing I got from you is Creation.

Well Creation most times means Universe.

You always argued that everything else is the byproduct of 616 Universe.

This debate is getting old we been through the same thing over and over again.

There are Phoenix hosts from across the multiverse tapping into a single Phoenix Force as shown by New X-men. It is indeed a multiversal power.

The fact that LT is claimed in the process Phoenix controls heavily suggests that it is indeed the multiverse. Thats common sense KG dont be fallacious for the sake of winning an argument.

Agreed it is getting old.

We'll continue this later. Its vodka time!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
There are Phoenix hosts from across the multiverse tapping into a single Phoenix Force as shown by New X-men. It is indeed a multiversal power.

The fact that LT is claimed in the process Phoenix controls heavily suggests that it is indeed the multiverse. Thats common sense KG dont be fallacious for the sake of winning an argument.

Agreed it is getting old.

The part of you using creation to prove PF created the multiverse is invalid.

Because Creation is always referred to Universe

It was the case in Forever also

ya it is getting old..................................................

Originally posted by kgkg
multiverse? did I say Phoenix wasn't???????

The part of you using creation to prove PF created the multiverse is invalid.

Because Creation is always referred to Universe

It was the case in Forever also

ya it is getting old..................................................

It wasnt the case with X-men Forever at all because thats the example where LT is shown to be replaced in the cycle Phoenix controls. Therefore you know its responsibilities extend to the multiverse.

The many hosts across the multiverse tapping into a single source supports that as well. Phoenix is multiversal and through common sense you'll see that its creation responsibiities extend to the entire multiverse

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It wasnt the case with X-men Forever at all because thats the example where LT is shown to be replaced in the cycle Phoenix controls. Therefore you know its responsibilities extend to the multiverse.

The many hosts across the multiverse tapping into a single source supports that as well. Phoenix is multiversal and through common sense you'll see that its creation responsibiities extend to the entire multiverse

can you post one scan in forever that says Multiversal? please

Originally posted by kgkg
Lt was also absorbed in the battled that absorb one reality.

can you post one scan in forever that says Multiversal? please

Despite seeing all those hosts, hosts that we never see in 616? At least not as hosts since we see storm all the time and in an alternate universe something like 95112 or 29511 or something like that we see Storm as a host for the Phoenix.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So you didn't say phoenix wasn't multiversal, but you're going to argue the point?

Despite seeing all those hosts, hosts that we never see in 616? At least not as hosts since we see storm all the time and in an alternate universe something like 95112 or 29511 or something like that we see Storm as a host for the Phoenix.

🙄

Phoenix power over the masses wanes -

🙂

Originally posted by Creshosk
So you didn't say phoenix wasn't multiversal, but you're going to argue the point?

Despite seeing all those hosts, hosts that we never see in 616? At least not as hosts since we see storm all the time and in an alternate universe something like 95112 or 29511 or something like that we see Storm as a host for the Phoenix.

Originally posted by kgkg
about the creation of the multiverse 🙄

What do the others use? Duct tape?

I don't really need to reply to any of your individual points. It all come down to this:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But you're failing to acknowledge that there were reasons behind some of her losses. For example self imposed limitations, her presence in 616 not being necessary for her Phoenix work.

Not at all. Youre failing to acknowledge the many factors in play during her battles. Intentions, (e.g to kill or disable) self imposed restrictions (after M'kraan up until DP's sacrifice), which retcon period, premature resurrection (Endsong, Here Comes Tomorrow) etc when her presence was required for her work (unlikejggg) she hasnt lost.

The reasons all of these factors exist in these losses is because, at the end of the day....she's human. She's one with the POWER of the Phoenix, but she lacks the consciousnes of the Phoenix. As long as she only has the former, her power will be limited and she'll continue to have "reasons" for being bested.

But let's see where you're at now, just for fun.

How does Jean Grey do against

In-betweener
Love and Hate
Chaos and Order
Infinity
Death
Eternity
Thanos with the IG
Spectre
Saint of Killers
Living Tribunal
Lucifer
Michael
Great Evil Beast
Thanos with HOTU

Everybody is welcome to particpate. I just want to nail down GS to a position on this once and for all.

I still think she's like the spectre, given as much power as she needs to get the job done, if she isn't supposed to do a job she's not given any power. . . Beyond the way people precevie her to be normally.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I still think she's like the spectre, given as much power as she needs to get the job done, if she isn't supposed to do a job she's not given any power. . . Beyond the way people precevie her to be normally.

jggggggggg.........................

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
jggggggggg.........................

💃 💃 💃

Originally posted by Creshosk
I still think she's like the spectre, given as much power as she needs to get the job done, if she isn't supposed to do a job she's not given any power. . . Beyond the way people precevie her to be normally.

That makes a lot of sense to me .... but i think 'the hand' disagrees 🙁

Originally posted by Creshosk
I still think she's like the spectre, given as much power as she needs to get the job done, if she isn't supposed to do a job she's not given any power. . . Beyond the way people precevie her to be normally.

Fair enough. So when you see Jean Grey vs. threads - how much power do YOU give her? And why would you use that vs. what you said was "the way people perceive her to be normally"?

How does she do against the list I set up? Assume the opponents aren't a danger to the omniverse. I'm interested in hearing your opinion on it.

Originally posted by demigawd
Fair enough. So when you see Jean Grey vs. threads - how much power do YOU give her? And why would you use that vs. what you said was "the way people perceive her to be normally"?

How does she do against the list I set up? Assume the opponents aren't a danger to the omniverse. I'm interested in hearing your opinion on it.

Thats a point .... Like the Spectre, does she unapproved days ? This would explain some 'interesting' battle losses .... Jgggggg etc !