Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
This is basically a cleaned up version of my former argument with Joruus and his forces added it.For my attack force, I'll send Yoda and 2000 Clones and Joruus with 1000 Storm Troopers. Seeing as they start only 200 meters from snipers, they will begin moving up the hill as soon as possible if they have been able to survey the planet and defenses from orbit, if the rules don't give them that bonus, then they spend maybe a minute or so recieving orders from Yoda.
The other guys are just here to watch, Joruus will win the battle for me single handedly. Joruus has before demonstrated the ability to control the minds of 37,000 people at one time before. Many of these were farther away than these clones will be from Joruus as he controlled everyone on an entire Star Destroyer. Once he has them under his control, he will simply order them to shoot themselves.
(See Thrawn Trilogy for details. He demonstrates all of these abilities in it.)Because I don’t think I will be allowed to use that strategy. I will use a more pratical one for the purposes of this game.
Upon landing, Yoda will immediately take the spines and lift them from the ground and through them at snipers and E-web. Those are now effectivly neutralized. Yoda has done this before when he lifted the crane in ep2. A few spines should prove relatively easy for him.
Seeing as the clones are exactly the same; except for very minor genetic imperfections caused by the cloning process; it is unlikly that the Commenor Clones will be unit for unit more capable, not counting their terrain advantages.
Joruus will use battle meditation on the Storm Troopers and Clone Troopers. He demonstrated this ability in the Thrawn trilogy.
The Clones and Storm Troopers will move behind the wall to protect as many of their number as they can. The clones for the most part will be safe behind the two meter high wall. During this time, Yoda will be cutting through it along with clones using their blasters to slowly destroy it or if I have any terchnician set up mines to blow it up. Yoda is by this time still convieavably more powerful than Luke in Jedi Academy. He can simply rip the wall apart. Luke was said by his students at the Jedi Academy that he had the pure telekinetic power to build the Massassi Temples. (For points see Jedi Academy Trilogy or
I, Jedi.)Not all of the army is going to be able to hide in the shadow of the wall. The ones that can't hide will use boost from their squadron members to get over the wall and continue up to the fortress. Remember, the E-web was taken out along with the snipers by Yoda in the beginning of the assault by Yoda throwing the spines.
Not sure how thick the wall is, so I'm unsure how long it will take to breach. I doubt that it would take very long as their could be hundreds of clones leterally melting it will rapid fire or Yoda laterally ripping it apart piece by piece, but if Yoda is unable to rip up the pieces y him self,then the Clones would have to give up their cover during this time.
I doubt the wall would take more than two or three minutes to damage to the point where the clones can simply move over it, supporting their brethren who had already moved passed the wall(remember, they were given boost by comrades).If Yoda is able to rip it apart the wall, then he can throw the pieces into the fortress. Joruus can help with ripping apart the wall and throwing the pieces into the fortress. The Clones and Storm Troopers at this point bum-rush what’s left of the fortress with Yoda at the lead. Joruus will at this time retreat back to the side of the intact point of the wall and use battle-meditation.
The main problem I have with this scenario is Yoda. For one, Yoda demonstrated telekinesis, yes. But look how he was every time he did it- stationary, eyes closed, and concentrating. He would be totally vulnerable for some time. I find it a bit of a stretch to say that Yoda can just rip these up without him or his defenders under heavy fire (Since he is an enemy general and will no doubt be a priority target for the defending forces.) This just begs for trouble.
Second problem I have is the idea that Yoda will just rip the walls apart (While being stationary, concentrating, and reaching out with the Force). I'm not doubting that he can do it, but it won't be a five second ordeal. He will need EXCESSIVE cover, and quite frankly I don't think he'll find it. If the storm troopers think the jedi is up to something, they'll be raining fire on his position and chucking thermal detonators like it's their job. (Which it is.)
And the third problem I have is with Yoda leading a charge. Even if the wall is torn down, the stormtroopers will be especially desperate and he will present a fine target. Since there will be nothing to hide from (just a bumrush en masse) the attacking team will sustain casualties, and Yoda will spend too much time dodging shots to make leeway. To be frank, he isn't a frontline general and he doesn't function as such.
Based on this, Yoda will not be able to quickly take out the e-web and the snipers, and this will cost you initially. And because you did not have the troopers form a defensive line and otherwise do anything strategically effective (Such as cover fire), they will basically be rained down upon by the defenders. Snipers and the vicious e-web will take their toll, and Yoda will be in peril.
However, you did say that the clones will be moving behind a two meter wall. Now, how you can fit two thousand clones behind any wall in history is beyond me, but I'm going to point out that those who can't fit behind the wall are basically sitting ducks, or really, running ducks. As they try to make distance towards the hill, the defenders will be raining fire on them and probably keeping the hidden clone troopers (those few on the end who can snap off shots) pinned down. If I give you the benefit of the doubt (Which I am not really inclined to do) Yoda would work to take out the e-web and some of the snipers. But since that plan isn't very solid, I'm going to consider it a loss, with Yoda being forced to duck and hide, and any troops near him being cut down.
On the wall- Yes, you brought up a good point, that the energy weapons will rip holes into it. However, the same goes for the wall your clone troopers are hiding behind, the trees and everything. If you note in ROTJ, in the Endor speeder scene, a blast from a speeder (Which is a relatively mild blast) split a tree effectively. In ANH before take off in the hangar, Han's heavy blaster pistol put large holes into the walls of the hangar. The e-web by itself will hail death down upon any exposed troopers and some of those who are hiding. By hiding your troopers (and realistically, unless Jango Fett was three meters tall, none of them can fire over the top of the wall, only the sides) you have cut in half your effectiveness. The other stragglers will be hard pressed to make leeway, even with Battle Meditation (Which will help you, but it won't turn this battle around unless Joruus decides your battle plan sucks and adopts his own.
So yeah, you'll probably take the hill, but at what cost?
I will have Marka, Kriea and Ulic all at the front, using their force abilities to sense any danger and move the troops around it. They could also prevent attacks from any beasts in the swamps (I will not use them as an advantage, but neither can they hurt me).I will also have some troopers out front to help guide.
This could work, I suppose.
To stop snipers during the march through the jungle I will have Marka use the force to obsucure them as they pass through (Jaina can do this in Dark Onslaught, as can Luke and really all of the jedi in NJO, Marka could do it as well).
This is leaping to a conclusion. Just because Jaina and Luke can do it as can every NJO jedi, doesn't mean that Ragnos can. For example, Mace Windu can use Shatterpoint, but Sidious, Dooku, and Yoda can't.
Thus, since they are effectively invisible (while hiding, out in the open it would not help) to the people in the base, they could easily sneak around and surround it. I would station Marka in the south position with 100 Krath and 800 Elite sith soldiers; Ulic in the west with 800 Krath and 100 sith apprentices; Traya in the east with 50 sith apprentices and 100 Krath; and 30 sith apprentices, 100 Krath Elite and 20 Elite Sith Soldiers in the north.
Anbd the problem I have with this is again, we have no way of knowing if the trio can cloak their entire party. We know that Kreia can cloak herself, but she never does it to anyone else. And even if you could cloak the entire party, it would take you a ridiculously long time to surround the camp. And if one trooper trips over a stick, you're caught.
At one precise moment each of the divided armies step out and attack the cannon the is in front of them, Marka could use force lightning or his staff (remember it can use a blast of force energy that damages stuff, it blew a hole through a brick wall and his staff can also cause earthquakes for lack of a better term), also his troops could also use the force (the massassi could and if these are the elites, they definetly could as well) to help destroy it as well as use blasters to destroy it, Ulic could also use force lightning and his troops could shoot at it, his sith apprentices could shoot at it. Traya could use force lightning and her sith apprentices could also use force lightning, the other soldiers could shoot at it. The final cannon would be destroyed by the sith apprentices using force lightning and the soldiers shooting at it. So all the cannons are gone.
Sadly, if Marka Ragnos can get close, this is very possible. One of the reasons why I didn't want hi in the game, but I suppose it'll pass. I just want more in depth on how you're going to get this close and surround the fortification. Remember, you have to describe it in detail- you can't expect us to skip steps or come to conclusions without sufficient support.
Now, since all the cannons were destroyed at one time, the troopers would be shocked and confused (if something blew up and everyside of you, how would you be?), this would prevent snipers from killing to many. Also, our my own snipers would be able to see where they are shooting from and take out the enemy snipers while being protected by the sith. The sith could also take out snipers (force lightning and Marka's staff). With all snipers dead (not sure how many there are, I'll say 40), that leaves 460 troopers left.
Assumption on the behalf of the troopers, but not terribly unfounded. But if you have snipers (and make sure to differentiate between snipers and marksman, there IS a difference.) they should be skulking about and providing fire from the outset, which means if they fired a shot, your entire force would be detected. And if the stormtroopers rigged the perimeter with explosives (Which they have been known to do) they could detonate it and rip loose your entire attacking force.
Then I send Marka and Ulic together charging up the ramp, with the above stated armies following them (Marka with 100 Krath and 800 Elite sith soldiers; Ulic with 800 Krath and 100 sith apprentices), the two sith charge up the ramp, deflecting blaster bolts and using force lightning, choke, crush etc. on their enemies, Marka is also using his staff to blow holes in the walls/defences/troopers/anything he feels like. Also, I have the sith apprentices fight behind Marka and Ulic using sith lightning (oh and yes they can use it, if the ones on Korriban can use it, these guys can as well) and the troopers behind them, shooting as they run. Against a mighty charge like that, the stormies inside would likely retreat slightly, trying to find a better position.
I'd like to have people from now on provide a plan B, because stuff doesn't always work out like it's supposed to. Real life generals always have contingency plans and such, and it would be foolhardy for you not to include one, since things like this (This mad charge) might not occur if the previous parts of the battleplan went badly.
When Marka and Ulic reach the gate, they blow it open (Marka's staff, force push etc. anyway you look at it, that gate is going down), when inside they proceed to devastate the troopers. Once they have gotten 100 feet inside, Marka fires a blast from his staff directly into the air. This is Traya's and the sith apprentices que to jump up the wall into the encampment (I checked and the walls are only 20 feet, something any self respecting jedi/sith can easily jump). Then you have 80 sith apprentices, 20 Elite sith soldiers (remember they can use the force in basic ways, they could jump with it) and Traya coming at the stormtroopers from the back and Marka, Ulic, 900 Krath, 800 Elite sith and 100 sith apprentices. The stormtroopers are caught in the middle and die a quick death
Nice job with the Sith ambush force. I like the idea, but really, only Kreia and her sith assassins can get that close. Keep in mind that there isn't any proof that Ragnos, Ulic, or Kreia can cloak anyone besides themselves.
Overall, not bad. Better than the first draft, but still has some bugs. Based on this, I'm going to conclude that the initial main force will be detcted, but Ulic and Ragnos offset the detection. Meanwhile, Kreia's ambush force will form the clamp that will choke the stormtroopers' last hope and this battle goes to you. Not without blood, but certainly a lot easier than expected.
Hm. Well said Janus. Although I'm not sure that he'd come away with minor casualties. Anyway, with this victory, Darkstar gains one Risk Card. In addition, your forces are raised from their original count by 10%. I believe you calculated that before; keep the calculation for now's results, but no changes.
Hm. Well if we know nothing about it, we'll make an inference. However stupid.
Here:
Zeltros will be a forested planet, with great canyons and vast valleys, split through by mighty rivers. Your forces will be set down on the east side of a 1000-meter deep canyon, with a rushing, rapid river flowing at the bottom. There is a rickety wooden bridge about three meters across spanning the width of the canyon. There are great clusters of boulders ranging from one meter to five in size around the ends of the bridge. The enemy troops are stationed thirty meters from the opposite side of the bridge, on top of a small plateau. There are quickly crafted, hut-like buildings at the top, somewhat primitive. 500 troopers armed each with a T-21 Repeating Scoped Rifle and hold-out blasters.
Explain.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Hmmm....I thought that thread should go after the pick order ? So...1) Darth Glentract
2) Lord Darkstar
3) Se7in
4) Darth Zayzia
5) Rand al'Thor
6) Darth Somebody
7) Jester Mereel
8) BlackVortex
9) Nai Fohl
10) Lord Simus
11) ESB-1138
12) FishyIf not, I'd like to attack Obroa Skai... 😉
Nice new sig.
Well, Glentract and Lord Darkstar went, and Fishy is already going. Due to a slow response on the other parties (We've already declared action what? Two days ago?) I'm going to give you the go-ahead, Nai.
Claim on Obroa Skai.
Now, do we know anything about the planet specifically, or do I get to use artistic license?
Janus can you post that link to that weapons page again?
BTW: I need some clearing up on this battlefield
How strong is the bridge? How width is the canyon? The boulders at the end of the bridge? Yeah I don't understand them at all, please explain how they are placed and where they are and till how far they go.