Originally posted by Illustrious
The cannons are on four corners of the bastion, and the bastion is relatively large, as it has to house 500 stormtroopers (logical deduction, I didn't change any of the circumstances).So for Kreia to manage to move her sabers to take out all the cannons, she needs to either move around, or have almost unheard of concentration: can she do it on the field of battle?
well ok, Traya cannot take out all 4 cannons, however I believe that we can all agree that she can at least take out one or two, allowing an opening for the troops to move in. Also, I was just using Kreia since her 2 lightsaber ability is well known, however if she took out tw oof them (say the north one and the east one, the enterence is from the south), then Marka could use force lightning to take out the other two, this is where the beasts could come in and provide a distraction for him.
First, since the force binds everything together, the three sith would be able to sense the quicksands (the area where animals avoid, has dead things in it etc.) and steer their armies around it. It would work the same way with swamps, if they had to cross one, the sith could levitate themselves (Luke does it in "the Courtship of Princess Leia," just a few years after RotJ) and they could cut down a large tree that the army could walk across on.
This soudns good, but it will involve a lot of concentration on the part of some force users, who will be vulnerable to sniper fire at this time. Correct me if I'm wrong (Since I don't have the distance from the defenders before me at this time) but the entire group will initially be vulnerable to fire. Point being, contemporary sniper rifles have distance measures in meters. A high tech blaster sniper rifle can hit someone from a considerable distance, and may have an automatic firing mechanism once it locks onto a target (AOTC with Zam) This simply requires a lot of dedication to avoid the natural obstacles and a lot of good coordination on the part of the leaders. It would be a ***** of a thing to try even in a neutral environment.
Also, Kriea's 200 sith apprentices, probably much like Obi-Wan in TPM, could levitate themselves across. Or even, with the powers of the three sith that I brought, they could just levitate people across (Luke does it to R2 in RotJ, also if an old crippled Yoda can lift an X-Wing, Kriea, Ulic and Marka could sure as hell lift at least 50 people (each) at a time over, more likely it would be 100 or more over. And Kriea's sith apprentices could combine and lift people together as well (Jaina alone can lift on ore lifter at the start of the Vong invasion, forget which book but I just read it), so if Jaina can lift an ore lifter, 200 sith can definetly lift some people across. So the natural barriers are not really barriers.
Mass levitation is a tricky art and would be too slow to be practical on a live battlefield. Hoenstly, the clone troopers would be better off having a scout or two walking ahead of them and navigating around the depresions and traps. Mass levitation isn't a really viable option.
Second, yes I do know that Kriea cannot move while doing her little technique, that is why I have two armies guarding the exit and 800 Krath guarding her
And this weakens the Krath as a force and makes them a support unit, guarding Kreia for the sole advantage of a few extra lightsabers. Krath soldiers will no doubt take heavy casualties defending her with their bodies (Since they have little else) and won't be able to advance as readily. Kreia, meanwhile, will be horribly open, and one stray or precise shot will take out your general.
As for the attack, the beasts are more of a diversion, drawing the attention of the stormtroopers, when Ulic and the sith and some of his Krath are attacking, the other people will make a circle around the fort to prevent others from leaving.
The beasts need clarification. It could be a swarm of mynocks or a few dog like creatures. You would have to prove what type of animals exist on Dagobah and how they could be controlled to the point of doing suicidal charges and how much of an advantage or diversion they would serve. Also, flanking would be ridiculously hard to do at close range, and as I said, mass levitation isn't a viable option. A flanking manuever is a costly and time consuming event, and in any case it's doubtful the conditioned troopers will flee the fortified position, giving up the advantage.
As for what the defenders are doing, why they are, drunk didn't you know, lol jokin. But they would be trying to attack, but with Ulic charging up with 200 sith apprentices (think Obi-Wan or Anakin Skywalker in AotC) right behind him, and 200 Krath Elite right behind them, there is not a whole lot that the defenders can do. And like I said, a simple force push and the gates are down, Ulic is in and the defenders are dead
And I have no reason to believe sith apprentices (read: slightly more aggressive and impatient padawans) are going to break the defensive line without horrible casualties. And if the gates are weak enough to be blown open, this still doesn't preclude victory for the defending force.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
True. While genetic variations are all but non-existent, variations and fighting abilities and tactics will vary tremendously depending on the location, type, and nature of a clone's training.Hm. Janus. Does he get another shot at this? Or does he lose his assault? because I personally think that it needs some work, but could be achieved with some modifications.
I'm willing to chalk up the initial two sieges as practice ones, since we did come out of left field and slam them with points. In particular, both groups I believe would be slaughtered, if not to a man then almost entirely based on both scenarios.
Of course, I could just be too large of an Armchair General junkie, too.
Well, Darkstar, you have yet to convince us completely. I believe that it is possible with those you control, but your strategy is off. So keep going.
And Janus, no, we have the right idea. No use in being soft, or this entire thread would be rendered useless.
Anyways, I've got some stuff to do. I'll see you all tomorrow. Don't get too far ahead. 🙂
Since I pretty much utterly failed to convince you guys of victory, can I make the following changes to my attack.
If I am allowed to, I would like to bring in Joruus C'Baoth with 1000 Storm Troopers. He does for sure have battle meditation, as can be seen in the Thrawn trilogy as he uses it on the Imperial fleet.
Also, if allowed to, I would like to have Yoda use the spines as weapons with which to destroy the E-webs and sniper from a distance and then use them to attack the fortress. Ballisticakinetics at their finest.
Definately. It's possible if your strategies are sound. But as I've heard from both of you, the strategies rely on a lot of unknowns, and the emphasis is apparently on not losing men while somehow winning a siege. You must be realistic; in a real battle, the general makes the battle plan and perhaps provides some support (marginally little, even for a jedi). But the mud crunchers are still mortal beings and will soak up blaster fire regardless of whether your Sergeant Slaughter or Feldmarschal Rommel.
About your points, Glentract, you are leaping to conclusions and generalizing powers. I want a specific point or statement that Yoda can do Force cloak or battle meditation. Wikipedia does NOT count.
Hm. I suppose you can include your other troops. How many troops does this give you to the defenders? If we're allowing all three main army groups to attack the first target, I don't imagine too much is wrong with that. But remember that if you're using the three army groups to planet hop, people can just sweep behind you and take what you've left open.
Forget Yoda being able to battle meditation. I'm going to be able to prove that to you, so I have brought in Joruus to do that now.
Yoda will asle no longer be usunig force cloak during the battle, he is going to be using balistikanetics(I can't figure out how to spell it) to destory the E-web and the snipers along with the caslt defenses.
ok I guess not, but Janus (or Deus Ex now I guess), I do not think that the snipers would be able to snipe me, remember this is in a jungle and they would have to see through trees, swamps etc. Snipers won't work here. Also, about where I start, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure that you were thinking of Glentracts starting point, being within range instantly, Dagobah is a different environment and would not be the same start or anything
About the guideing thing, well I could do that as well, how about we have the sith sensing and guiding away from any traps and also have some troopers out front to guide away, double protection
Also, Kriea is hidden and the troopers would not be easily able to attack her without getting on the ground, also, I now have Marka attacking the turbolasers as well with force lightning, also, the sith apprentices could use destroy droid, as could Ulic, if they all surrounded the fort, then all attacked, then it the cannons are gone. After those are gone, Traya puts away her three lightsabers, letting her move again.
About the beasts, we see in ANH the diagona (sp) that lives in garbage, Dagobah is much the same way, it likely also lives there, same with Mynocks as you said (they could also help disable the cannons by distracting them, then force lightning, destroy droid and they are gone), also there would be other various water creatures (crocidiles etc) and some small land predators (there were lots of bugs in the cave that Luke went into in ESB, I also think we saw a small creature, if there are bugs, then there would be things that eat them, if there are things that eat the bugs, then there would be creatures that eat the creatures that eat the bugs. At minimum there would be creatures like wolves
About the apprentices, first they are trained to kill jedi, they lived in a time or war and all sorts of other things, they are stronger than you think. And anyway, even if they were just as strong as the padawan in RotS, 200 of them would be able to deflect most blaster bolts coming their way. And once the gates are down, Ulic and his army is in, even if you say that the defenders would kill all of them (which they wouldn't) Traya could come up and we know that she can kill many of them, remember the cutscene in KotOR II, with a wave of her hand she killed dozens of sith assassins, she would do the same to the stormtroopers
Alright. So a quick recap on your battle plan? Sorry to be a pest, but if you could repost it (and keep it clean, bullet points are nice. A WORD TO ALL CONTESTANTS, BIG PARAGRAPHS MAKE FOR HARD READING. k thx!) I'll go over it with you from there. Hoenstly, if you use even two army groups you shouldn't have any doubts about victory. But how you implement your forces could possibly diminish your chances of victory later on.