Originally posted by vader11And that is why i pointed out vader isnt stupid to fight somebody without his saber given his weakness to lightning, stupid imbecile
All you said are just YOUR own oppinions. Why it seems like only you arguing with me? If everyone come to agree with you, I would agree. You are the one who need to learn to read because I was meaning it is a pure force fight & you said Vader can use saber to block it so are totally fool!
Originally posted by AdventThat's stupid (harhar), because if Kadesh were the 'stupidest person in the world', then he would also take the position of 'stupidest user in the forum' by default.
****.
@Vader11
See this vader11? Advent at least said something very logical unlike you who is just a blatant dumbass and if i were teh stupidest person in teh world, i wouldnt be sitting on my ass laughing at every comment you made,
So what is your major malfunction NUMBNUT! (FULL metal jacket)
EDIT
Oh and littleboy vader11, right now we have quite a number of people pounding your ass, you cant back anything up and i doubt you even know where tremendous bullshit comes from.
Im a nice guy so i will tell you where it comes from, Y-O-U
Originally posted by Kadesh
Advent at least said something very logical
What the hell is that suppose to mean? 'Advent at least' said this and that? You make it sound as if I'm some retard in your wording, I'd advise you to fix that considering - as most have felt my wrath and know - that's not the case.
Edit:
Damn, reading through my posts from months ago on this thread reminds me of how much I rock. 😛
Originally posted by AdventThats not the case, i didnt mean to offend you or anything i was trying to let that prick know that everybody else says something very logical.
What the hell is that suppose to mean? 'Advent [b]at least' said this and that? You make it sound as if I'm some retard in your wording, I'd advise you to fix that considering - as most have felt my wrath and know - that's not the case.
[/B]
And yes i have felt your wrath before
EDIT
btw the san fierro you put under your location, is it from GTA san andreas?
My two cents on a few issued that have come up:
Lightning: When Vader was hit by Sidious' lightning, he seemed fine. Now Advent, I hear your arguments about concentration and they seem to make sense... until you look deeper into it. When Sidious was fighting Mace and got his lightning tossed back in his face, the power of the lightning actually intensified, due to the pain. Pain makes the darkside stronger (like in POD, when a poisoned Bane kills a family to regain some energy), and when Vader decided to bench press Sidious, the lightning hit both of them, and, I really don't see why it would have gotten any weaker.
About the Maul issue: You seem to forget that Vader is fighting Dooku, and not Maul. Dooku doesn't have the speed or martial skills that Maul does that allowed him to do so well against Vader. I have listed a few specific advantages that point to as to why Vader would win in a duel (Use of Form V, massive strength, armor, knowledge of Dooku, etc). Also it was just a duel. Most people seem to be forgetting this: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=160&page=021 Bottom left panel. Basically, if Vader had used the force, he had the chance of beating Maul, and the three... dark acolytes.
[Random] http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=172 [/Random]
Originally posted by AdventUh, what? I'm not understanding what you're trying to relay here. Elaborate.
I'm reminded of a Canibus song, "My intelligence begins where yours peaks at." Sorry. I was just simply theorizing that perhaps, even being a minute possibility, that Dooku's most powerful surge peaks out below the intensity where Sidious' begins. BUT, before you get all "Adventish" on me, I have no proof to provide or cause to suspect such an occurrence; rather i was merely throwing out another remote possibility.
I won't argue the rest cause honestly, it's not that important to me - i know lightning = Vader's death - the intensity is just detail. The only thing I will say about Luke hopping right up, and Anakin being down for a minute, would be acting and GL's direction. But we could see the intensity on Palp's face when frying Luke, so i doubt that was weaker than Dooku's sudden burst that threw Anakin hard into the wall (which could also be a cause for his slow recovery time). But really, whatevs. Were a lightning war to ensue, Palps would, in my opinion, pwn Dooku, but thats not the case here, so all good.
Originally posted by Kadesh
Ah well that game is banned in my country but i got it illegally, btw i havnt heard of any mods for the pc version
http://gta-worldmods.planet-multiplayer.de
http://www.gtagarage.com/mods/index.php
^
There's just a couple of sites I use.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Lightning: When Vader was hit by Sidious' lightning, he seemed fine.
He dropped to the ground immediately after throwing Palpatine down the reactor shaft, what are you talking about? If you're talking about during the act itself, then it's not out of the realm to assume that the entire time Darth Vader even had him midair he was using nearly all his strength, ignoring the pain, and focusing on his goal (and that's all true, considering the RotJ excerpt I posted). Really, it may be Star Wars, but will played a huge part as it does in everyday life.
Not only that, but the greenhorn Luke Skywalker got up seconds after Palpatine continuously blasted him, which suggests - as I've already argued - that the lightning the Emperor used wasn't very potent to begin with. So, it's not as if he was blasted with anything remotely near Palpatine's upper limit.
Now Advent, I hear your arguments about concentration and they seem to make sense... until you look deeper into it.
No, they do make sense, and concentration plays a huge part of it. Even when you look further into the situation, you see that I'm still correct, so the little 'until' this and that comment is rather needless...until you look below, and realize it's pretty asinine, as well.
When Sidious was fighting Mace and got his lightning tossed back in his face, the power of the lightning actually intensified, due to the pain.
Last time I checked, Darth Sidious was focused on frying Mace's Republic ass, too. He concentrated that pain he was feeling into his attack:
"Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blistering energy that loured from his hands only intensified. He fed the power with his pain." (Revenge of the Sith, Ch. 19)
Clearly, 'he fed' means that he focalized the feelings his physical body felt. So, since he did, we have no reason to believe that pain itself makes an attack more powerful. So, you'll need a lot more to prove your "unfocused pain increases power" theory.
Focused pain makes the darkside stronger (like in POD, when a poisoned Bane kills a family to regain some energy)
Fixed.
Since I haven't actually read PoD, I can't comment, and I can't venture to guess, seeing as that just sounds ****ing ridiculous (not saying it isn't true, just idiotic). Post the entire passage (not that it matters, anyways).
and when Vader decided to bench press Sidious the lightning hit both of them
Bullshit. No, it didn't, and I'm going to call you out on lying.
You do know that metal is a conductor for electricity, right? Let's take a look at as soon as Palpatine gets picked up:
Shitty quality, but deal with it. If you bothered to watch the movie in slow-mo, or frame-by-frame, you'll see that you're wrong.
When Vader has him lifted, bolts are literally going in 'all directions'', and they are drawn to Darth Vader only, Palpatine never gets hit:
"...His hands still shooting bolts of malign energy out in all directions. In his wild flailing, the lightning ripped across the room, tearing into Vader." (Return of the Jedi, Ch. 9)
It's emitting from his hands, and even when we see a view of him falling down into the shaft, the trail of lightning is on his hands, and the first angle we get of Palpatine in the air shows that it goes towards Vader. Upon closer examination, he never actually gets struck with own powers in RotJ, so try again.
and, I really don't see why it would have gotten any weaker.
Well, now, if the world relied on what you do or don't see, then we'd be in trouble. The reasons are explained above, and in previous posts, I'm not going to repeat myself.
You seem to forget that Vader is fighting Dooku, and not Maul.
If you're referring to me (I don't know why you would be, but...), then I'd tell you that I'm not arguing about the actual fight this thread set up, nor trying to say what vader11 is. Merely arguing the point Kadesh, that Darth Maul proved his superiority in bladed combat, so the rest I'm not going to address, seeing as it has literally nothing to do with anything I said regarding that situation.
So, go back to the drawing board, James.
Originally posted by Advent
Now, I'm not saying that Darth Vader dies instantly, but if Count Dooku can launch a similar barrage of lightning like that he uses on Bulq, I'd surmise that Vader would be in too much shock to do much of anything, as I'd argue that his display of lightning during the two on one bout was far more potent than the lightning Sidious administered in RotJ. [/B]
What about simply putting his lightsaber in the way of the lightning.
Really. If AotC Obi-Wan has no problem in absorbing Dooku's attack with his lightsaber, I don't see why Vader (suit or not) should have a problem doing the same.
And technically we don't even know if it was Sidious lightning that finally killed Vader. If you remember the conversation in ROTJ Vader (for all we know) just thinks that he was going to die anyways where Luke at first doesn't want to take his helmet off because it will kill him. Now it's quite illogical that, in case Vaders life-support-system was completely destroyed by Sidious lightning, that the Dark Lord would have survived all the way to the hangar. The system obviously still worked as Vader kept breathing all the time.
So while I don't have any doubt that Dooku will actually win this fight, I doubt it will be that easy for him to overcome a physically stronger, more focused and far more controlled version of Anakin where he already had (fatal) problems with the ROTS version. 😉
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Hey Advent, where can I get episode I, II, III novelizations online. Reading them online that is, I don't want to buy the crap.
Well, for what you're looking for you'd want to go to: swtimeline.ru, which has a shitload of comics, novels, and other miscellaneous materials. Though, I prefer to use a P2P client for novels (like Limewire, or Bearshare).
Good points, Advent. I only directed the lightning comment at you, but, what you're saying makes sense. Vader is pretty much screwed if he gets hit full on by lightning (however, he does have many ways to defend himself).
Originally posted by Advent
Since I haven't actually read PoD, I can't comment, and I can't venture to guess, seeing as that just sounds ****ing ridiculous (not saying it isn't true, just idiotic). Post the entire passage (not that it matters, anyways).
It seemed ridiculous to me, too. I'll find it and type it later, though, if you can wait.
Advent, I'll assume you've read (well, suffered through) the Jedi vs. Sith comic. This takes place when Bane is poisoned. He is in an old battle site, and then a family comes by.
Pages 263, 264, and 265 in PoD.
"He tried to drink in what remained of their tortured ends, hoping the agony of their final moments would bolster his own flagging power."
"Bane, drawing strength from the horror of their deaths..."
"Bane feasted on his anguish, gorging himself, feeling the darkside growing stronger in him."
He went from being nearly dead, "his heart laboring with every beat" and his muscles non-responsive to being able to stand, all because he was in the presence of pain and suffering... and bullshit writing.
Is the blue moon out finally?
Originally posted by Borbarad
What about simply putting his lightsaber in the way of the lightning.
What about if that point wasn't included in the discussion for the purpose that we were talking about a pure force fight? 😛
Really, we were talking about a force battle between the two. I've acknowledged on several occasions that it's a possibility (in this thread even) - nothing has changed.
And technically we don't even know if it was Sidious lightning that finally killed Vader.
We do know it played a huge part - which is the point. The lightning, and his "final release of the rage and loathing that sustained him for two decades also factored into his end". They both had major roles in contributing to his death, but it's clear that the lightning damaged him to the point where he couldn't move on his own.
Q: Why did Darth Vader die in Jedi? Luke was hit by a lot of lightning, but Vader wasn't. Did it have something to do with Palpatine?
A: Keep in mind that Luke did not rely on sensitive electronic machinery to sustain his life. Vader's suit, which kept him alive following his injuries sustained in Episode III, could not withstand the destructive energies of the Emperor's Force lightning. That was the biggest physical contribution to his demise. (Star Wars Q & A, Episode VI Lore).
It notes what you are say though, further into it. But, it's rather safe to say that had he not been struck with lightning, that he wouldn't have died. He's no Sion, his sole will isn't what actually holds him together.
Now, if he were to get hit with a bombardment of lightning that knocked Sora Bulq unconscious, I'd say he would go down fast and hard, and I don't see anything that suggests otherwise.
Now it's quite illogical that, in case Vaders life-support-system was completely destroyed by Sidious lightning, that the Dark Lord would have survived all the way to the hangar. The system obviously still worked as Vader kept breathing all the time.
I never denied, or insinuated otherwise. It's the fact that he fell to the ground is more or less what I'm referring to, and as noted above, it played a substantial part in his destruction. In this scenario, a blast that could launch a fully trained Jedi master into the air, and knock him out would probably have far more damaging effects, if I had to guess.
I doubt it will be that easy for him to overcome a physically stronger, more focused and far more controlled version of Anakin where he already had (fatal) problems with the ROTS version.
I agree with you on that, but I'm not really arguing points about who would win - only what would happen if attack x was successfully used.
@ Jollyjim:
Thanks. And yeah, that seems pretty ludicrous, to say the least.
