Darth Vader versus Darth Tyranus

Originally posted by Advent
Like I said, that's a different version of Darth Maul, which as far as been stated by Leland Chee might have been:

"[b]It's not quite the real Darth Maul. Hence the "or something." Who knows, it could have been a vision like Luke confronting Vader on Dagobah or just some sort of Sith illusion. Or a clone. Nothing's been determined as to what we are actually seeing..." (Movie characters killed in EU blog, Jan. 20, 2006)

Now, considering this, for all we know, the Maul we saw could've been more skilled than the actual Darth Maul. That isn't to say that he couldn't be equally as strong, or even weaker, but since there's absolutely no indication given by either the comic's narration (or dialogue), or any official confirmation you cannot use in your argument. [/B]

That was my point. We can't accurately judge his level, so just because Dooku can beat Maul, doesn't mean he could do the same to THAT Maul, which in turn means we don't know if the REAL Maul could do that to Vader. I was simply pointing out that that duel was pointless in a debate.

So there's no proof that either side would win in saber fight.
If they fight without saber, I say Dooku takes this coz he have lightning

Originally posted by vader11
So there's no proof that either side would win in saber fight.
If they fight without saber, I say Dooku takes this coz he have lightning

And please if dooku throws force lightning vader can block it with his saber and vader can counter with any of his force attacks or just use his surroundings to kill dooku

Originally posted by vader11
Vader would lose to Dooku in a close figth. BTW, this thread just stating Dooku vs Vader, it didn't say how they fight. If this is a force fight without saber, Dooku just use lightning & Vader is dead. You can't deny that. And you will never finsh me. Unless GL said Vader>Dooku or it is stated that in the official site. Otherwise. You would NEVER finish me.

I owned and pwned you in proving vader DID do acrobaticws, i admitted that he wasnt as good asbefore too.

Unless GL said Vader>Dooku or it is stated that in the official site. Otherwise. You would NEVER finish me Well fool neither did lucas say dooku > vader so why not shut the fcuk up?

No, he pulled an Obi-Wan, that's no 'defeat', it's bullshit. Darth Maul had him on all fours, at his mercy, and was proving he's the better fighter throughout the entire duel (even before using dual blades, he sliced Vader's stomach, kicked his sorry mechanic ass with melee attacks, and it's obvious Maul was better):

Not really, the entire duel "Maul" was surprised by Vaders skill and how he could keep up with him, the Prophets kept saying how shocked they were that they were so evenly matched, Vader even manages to break his saber in half. So I don't know where you got the whole "Vader got WTFpwned" from.

How can Vader pull a piece of debris to block dookus lightning? Once Dooku use lightning, Vader is dead! He is not fast enough to pull something to block the lightning! And if force crush is so powerful, why did Vader need a lightsaber? He can just crush all his enemies, include Maul. He may injury Sidious too. Why can't Dooku use other kinds of force to beat Vader? & the author of this thread didn't say how they fight & which Vader is it. If this is Darth Vader at the end of ROTS, he would definitely lose to Dooku! Well fool neither did lucas say Vader > Dooku too so why not shut the fcuk up? If I have to shut, you should too. You said you pwn me but you actually didn't. I can also say I pwn too. And yes I did finished you.

Well, were I to offer my opinion, I'd have to agree with Kadesh in one respect - it is both futile and impossible to try to compare the Darth Maul that Vader battled with the true Maul - as Advent has proven, the thing that the Sith splinter prophets pit against Vader wasn't actually the real Maul. So, unless I'm mistaken, a number of possible theories can take effect. It's possible that this illusion was stronger than the original or weaker, and I see nothing that can attest to either. But, regardless, it had enough strength to equal Vader, who is (according to George Lucas), 80% as powerful as RotJ Sidious. Now, I am not foolish enough to interpret this statement in the context of a duelist. Vader is a formidable duelist, his strength is overpowering to the point that he can simply bash people into submission with a lightsaber (see Rise of Darth Vader), but it is true that he lacks refined technique in comparison to someone like Count Dooku. I would also say that his cyberkinetic enhancements would also make him fairly fast in terms of "movement" (perhaps not agility).

The truth is, given that Count Dooku has fled (twice) from RotS Yoda (who is equal to RotS Sidious, who is, in turn, weaker than RotJ Sidious in terms of Force power) - even when Yoda was emotionally conflicted and Dooku held numerous advantages the second time - I would say that Vader is superior to Dooku by a noteworthy amount in Force power, or at least, in dark side knowledge and proficiency.

Of course, Dooku still has certain advantages - he can generate Force lightning which is lethal to Vader, and his technique is much more proficient compared to Vader's, thus I can see him possibly winning a duel.

But, personally, I see no reason to believe that Dooku is superior to Vader in sheer power alone.

Dude, you sound like a retard.

And really why can't Vader perform a such a simple task of...you know...putting his saber up to block the lightning...

EDIT: this was to Vader11

I am saying if this is a pure force fight.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Not really, the entire duel "Maul" was surprised by Vaders skill

But that doesn't necessarily mean what I was saying wasn't true, based on we saw, Darth Maul had the upper hand. And Maul only mentioned once that Vader 'stood his ground against [him]'.

the Prophets kept saying how shocked they were that they were so evenly matched

Again, that doesn't indicate that Darth Maul wasn't showing superiority over Vader, because he was, and there's on panel evidence that supports that.

Vader even manages to break his saber in half.

So does Obi-Wan Kenobi in TPM. What can I say? I'm shocked.

So I don't know where you got the whole "Vader got WTFpwned" from.

I don't know where I said he 'WTFpwned' him, but thanks for sharing. I said he 'kicked his sorry mechanic ass with melee attacks', and he did:

(Top panel on this one).

Darth Vader's only actual attack that was effective (aside from the seppuku) was slicing Maul's saber as you mentioned, and as seen above, but before and after Darth Maul still had the edge in the duel, so I don't see how when I say things like Maul was 'proving to be the better fighter', I'm somehow wrong, considering:

The duel was straightforward, with no outside advantages on either side, yet Darth Maul is seemingly more effective, which correlates to the point that that version of Maul was a more adept warrior in terms of lightsaber prowess. I never gave indication that Darth Maul was vastly greater, but he displayed a greater efficiency.

Maybe you misinterpreted my statements as 'OMFGBBQWTFPWNAGE' or a damned massacre, but that wasn't my intent. It's the equivalent to when I state things like Anakin was kicking Obi-Wan's ass with melee attacks, because plainly, he was, but I will acknowledge that the battle was far from a complete domination. So, again, if I gave that impression with my post, that's not what I meant.

Edit:

Really, the only thing that even suggests it was a cinch was "He [Vader] didn't beat him outright, and he certainly didn't come close to it in the least bit", but that's somewhat true, because (aside from the 'lightsaber modifications' Vader made to Maul's saber) he really didn't show signs of winning.

Maybe you misinterpreted my statements as 'OMFGBBQWTFPWNAGE or a damned massacre, but that wasn't my intent. It's the equivalent to when I state things like Anakin was kicking Obi-Wan's ass with melee attacks, because plainly, he was, but I do acknowledge that the battle was far from a complete domination, same case here. So, again, if I gave that impression with my post, that's not what I meant.

Thats what I thought you were going for, my mistake.

Well, to be fair, that seems to be one of Vader's chief weaknesses: he is impaired against an opponent who is quicker than he is - and before some raging Dooku-fanboy goes off the deep end, I'm referring to someone like Maul, specifically. Maul was trained on the physical principles of combat, and the Complete Visual Dictionary emphasizes this - he trained in various martial arts, mastering them, and pushed his physical strength and skill "to the utmost" - which is why we rarely see him use Force powers. This would also explain his unnatural endurance.

Maul's remarkable speed, agility, and overall (nearly) flawless technique is what gave him the upperhand. Vader's sole advantage, at times, was simply that, because he was part cyborg, he could obviously take much more punishment and asn't flesh-and-bone like Maul (even if Maul is a friggin' beast).

Originally posted by vader11
How can Vader pull a piece of debris to block dookus lightning? Once Dooku use lightning, Vader is dead! He is not fast enough to pull something to block the lightning!

And if vader executes force crush, DOOKU IS DEAD!

Originally posted by vader11

And if force crush is so powerful, why did Vader need a lightsaber? He can just crush all his enemies, include Maul.

Vader could destroy miltary tanks with that technique and as anakin whoms force mastery is lower, he shook down a roof of a building by just screaming dookus name and destroyed an entire medical room with force crush(noticed all the equipment getting crushed).

Originally posted by vader11

He may injury Sidious too. Why can't Dooku use other kinds of force to beat Vader? & the author of this thread didn't say how they fight & which Vader is it. If this is Darth Vader at the end of ROTS, he would definitely lose to Dooku!

Originally posted by vader11

If I have to shut, you should too. You said you pwn me but you actually didn't. I can also say I pwn too. And yes I did finished you.

Your failure to understand SIMPLE english and the failure to spell and type as well, GO HOME fool

Originally posted by vader11
I am saying if this is a pure force fight.

Originally posted by vader11
I am saying if this is a pure force fight.

Well, in a "pure Force fight", Vader is at a natural disadvantage - due to the electronic and cyberkinetic weaknesses of his armor. It is theoretical that Dooku could end that sort've fight quickly, however:

a.) Vader is a god when it comes to using the environment. He is a quick thinker and uses such tactical advantages to his advantage. I'm not arguing that Dooku isn't (he used the environment to his advantage with Yoda), but this is something that, if memory serves me, Vader is notorious for.

b.) Again, call me blasphemous, but being 80% of RotJ Sidious (who is stronger than RotS Sidious, whom Dooku was literally terrified of) would lead me to believe that simple as a pure Force user, Vader is stronger. Of course, he lacks Dooku's unlimited arsenal, but his strength and proficiency with the Force itself would appear to be better.

But, yes, in a pure Force fight, I'd hand victory to Dooku - if only for the lightning.

Originally posted by Gideon
Well, in a "pure Force fight", Vader is at a natural disadvantage - due to the electronic and cyberkinetic weaknesses of his armor. It is theoretical that Dooku could end that sort've fight quickly, however:

a.) Vader is a god when it comes to using the environment. He is a quick thinker and uses such tactical advantages to his advantage. I'm not arguing that Dooku isn't (he used the environment to his advantage with Yoda), but this is something that, if memory serves me, Vader is notorious for.

b.) Again, call me blasphemous, but being 80% of RotJ Sidious (who is stronger than RotS Sidious, whom Dooku was literally terrified of) would lead me to believe that simple as a pure Force user, Vader is stronger. Of course, he lacks Dooku's unlimited arsenal, but his strength and proficiency with the Force itself would appear to be better.

But, yes, in a pure Force fight, I'd hand victory to Dooku - if only for the lightning.

Its a matter of chance too, if dooku attacks first he wins thus the reason why i said he brings in a piece of debris before hand, and if vader attacks first with crush, he wins

There's someone agree that Dooku would win in a pure force fight. So I am not an idiot. Why Vader don't use his saber to block lightning? I said it is a PURE force fight! Are you blind or YOU are the one who need to go back to pre-school and learn how to read dumbass! Any proof that Dooku can't use or block force crush? In pure force fight, Dooku wins. Also, did you see how easily got hit by Luke's lightsaber in ESB? Luke's skill at the time was definitely not that good but he did hit Vader. So why can't Dooku hit Vader too?

Originally posted by vader11
There's someone agree that Dooku would win in a pure force fight. So I am not an idiot. Why Vader don't use his saber to block lightning? I said it is a PURE force fight!

Originally posted by vader11

Are you blind or YOU are the one who need to go back to pre-school and learn how to read dumbass!

Originally posted by vader11

Any proof that Dooku can't use or block force crush? In pure force fight, Dooku wins.

Originally posted by vader11

Also, did you see how easily got hit by Luke's lightsaber in ESB? Luke's skill at the time was definitely not that good but he did hit Vader. So why can't Dooku hit Vader too?

Vader11 i think now i can say you are officialy the stupidest person in the forums so far, I hate nebaris but at least he can construct proper arguments weather he wants to be an ass or not unlike you who repeats the same shit over and over and over again

Want to know something? i was right, you CANT debate and you act like you know everything, that alone speaks for yourself.

My advice, learn to read, stop copying my sentence and quit embarrassing yourself

All you said are just YOUR own oppinions. Why it seems like only you arguing with me? If everyone come to agree with you, I would agree. You are the one who need to learn to read because I was meaning it is a pure force fight & you said Vader can use saber to block it so are totally fool! Yes, pure force fight can go either way, but Dooku has higher chance of winning. Any proof that Vader is underestimating his skills? That was already near the end of the fight. I don't see he is still underestimating. You are the stupidest person in the world if I am stupidest person in the forum.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Vader11 i think now i can say you are officialy the stupidest person in the forums so far

Nope, LORDSIDIOUS01 firmly has first place in that category.

Edit:

Originally posted by vader11
You are the stupidest person in the world if I am stupidest person in the forum.

That's stupid (harhar), because if Kadesh were the 'stupidest person in the world', then he would also take the position of 'stupidest user in the forum' by default.

****.

Originally posted by Advent
Nope, LORDSIDIOUS01 firmly has first place in that category.

Originally posted by vader11
Thanks God that there are still some smart person in this world🙂

Don't get happy...you still suck ass.