Jesus Christ

Originally posted by peejayd
*oh, before i forgot... [the Trinity is NOT equal to the Godhead]... the Trinitarian doctrine preaches that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are all equal in power and authority... very unbiblical... the Father is greater than Christ and Christ is greater than the Holy Spirit... 😉

Umm..I forgot to add - that this is another gross misinterpretation. Christ sits at the *right hand* of the Father. This stature - represents his equality with him. However - as it is stated within the scriptures - Christ humbled himself before the Father, and willingly placed himself under Satan's authourity, in order to bring about salvation to mankind. Again - He(Christ) has command over all, just as the Father, and in essence is the Father(of course in human form).

I guess this would then bring one to ask - why did God only surrender one aspect of himself, to Satan's authourity? Well I don't completely know - but the common sense that God has given to me, tells me that it had nothing to do with pride. It also tells me that if he were to willingly submit himself in entirety to Satan's authourity, then he would be leaving the Heaven's unattended, and that wouldn't be the wise or loving thing to do - particularly with a raving lunatic running around, filled with intentions of subjugating those on earth(and those in heaven), under his perverse will.

Interesting, thanks for that interpretation.

Future ammo.

Originally posted by Alliance
Interesting, thanks for that interpretation.

You are quite welcome.

Future ammo.

He..He..no I highly doubt that. Everything that God reveals, is revealed with a loving purpose in mind. If you look at the book of Revelations - and you love God, you can see(and understand) that God has already won this battle - and there really is no need(nor use) for the enemy to have any ammunition. Right now we are all under a period of *grace* until God decides - that it is time for him to return - and claim what is rightfully his. However - this time, he won't be nearly as patient - nor will he be nearly as mercifully to those who do not love him.

You have heard the phrase - beware of the wrath of a patient man, have you not?

Well to this I would say - never worry about the wrath of any man(or demon for that matter) but one will know true fear - when they have experienced the wrath of a patient God.

well god is not man, so your cliche doesn't really fit, unless god is man, which kind of destroys your whole argument in the first place.

Thanks for your warning, I honestly could care less. Instead of cowering, I'm going to go do good things with my life.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not in Reality 😬

* it is real... a man and his wife is considered one, even in the law of man...

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
I looked up *Godhead* on wikipedia's website - and apparrently many Christians - like myself, do indeed use the term *Godhead* to commonly define(and refer to) the Trinity. However - wikipedia then goes on to state that such a translation is inaccurate and should not be used to define it. If I was to proceed in this parsing, and re-interpreting of words as you have done any longer, this would then be known as *Legalism* - the similar debate style used by the Pharisees, and this is something that I do not wish to do.

* if we are discussing about Godhead and Trinity, wikipedia is not a valid basis... the Bible is... as i've said, the Trinitarian doctrine preaches that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are all equal in power and authority... but according to the Bible, the Father is greater than Christ and Christ is greater than the Holy Spirit...

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Umm..I forgot to add - that this is another gross misinterpretation. Christ sits at the *right hand* of the Father. This stature - represents his equality with him. However - as it is stated within the scriptures - Christ humbled himself before the Father, and willingly placed himself under Satan's authourity, in order to bring about salvation to mankind. Again - He(Christ) has command over all, just as the Father, and in essence is the Father(of course in human form).

* "sitting at the right hand" does not mean equality in power and authority... it only means that, Christ in all His glory is also subjected to the Father who is greater than Him, albeit, the Most High... 😉

Originally posted by Alliance
Thanks for your warning, I honestly could care less. Instead of cowering, I'm going to go do good things with my life.

Which is exactly what you should do. For as it is written "The fear of the lord - keeps a man righteous."

However - when you truly accept the *loving* nature of God - then you understand there is nothing to fear(at least in the negative sense). Still God does command respect - like any other authourity figure in our lives(of course to a greater degree than any of his creations). This is what God means when he requests of his believers(and children) that we have *fear* of him in the bible.

I suppose at some point, after the tribulation - and after God creates a new heaven and new earth, there will no longer be a need for this type of *fear* - as sin, and those who engage in it - will no longer be present. Still - this type of *fear* is an extremely good measure - seeing as how it assists and encourages all of his children(particularly those who love him) to engage in loving(and not sinful) behaviour.

But remember the fear of the Lord is not cowering and being afraid.
The word actually refers to reverence.
"To fear the Lord is to hate evil" Proverbs 8:13
Fear of the Lord is not a fear in the sense that we use it.

What I say is that I am a good person.

If your God actually exist (*shouts to dark room* can we get a probability stat on that?) and hes says, "Well, you were a good person, but you weren't Christian so goodbye," I don't want any part of him.

That should explain my position pretty well. I could praist any one of the thousand established gods, i coul make up an infinate number more. I dont care. I follow morality, not what I'm told. CHristianity has been on the wrong sides of issue throughought hsitory, they're on the wrong sides of issues now. Clearly being Christian doesn't automatically make you a better person.

Originally posted by peejayd
* it is real... a man and his wife is considered one, even in the law of man...

But is a man his wife ? Is a woman her husband ?

Which do you worship ?

Originally posted by Nellinator
But remember the fear of the Lord is not cowering and being afraid.
The word actually refers to reverence.
"To fear the Lord is to hate evil" Proverbs 8:13
Fear of the Lord is not a fear in the sense that we use it.

Christians LOVE to play with words, don't they ?

Fear is Fear....Love is Love. Enough of this "well technically" bullshit....

If you FEAR God, you FEAR him...FEAR should NOT be the motivation for doing good.

Its a mistranslation. Fear is not intended that way in the original text. Its not technical thing its an intention things that I find to be important.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Its a mistranslation. Fear is not intended that way in the original text. Its not technical thing its an intention things that I find to be important.

A mistranslation you say ?

😆

How do you know what's mistranslation and what's not ? Are you just saying that to suit your own beliefs ?

You obviously do NOT follow the Bible literally, so therefore your intepretations of HELL are also non-biblical. Thanks for clarifying 👆

You make me smile 🙂

Damn, my post disappeared.

Originally posted by peejayd
* if we are discussing about Godhead and Trinity, wikipedia is not a valid basis... the Bible is... as i've said, the Trinitarian doctrine preaches that the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are all equal in power and authority... but according to the Bible, the Father is greater than Christ and Christ is greater than the Holy Spirit...

Meh, You say Po - tate - to --- I say Po - tot - to. It really doesn't matter what we call it - neither of us at this point, has a complete understanding of the Trinity. My initial thought of why God chooses such a representation - would be that he is trying to demonstrate *humility*, and demonstrate to us the importance of submitting to authourity, by representing himself at various levels.

However, at this point I'm just guessing, much like yourself - and limiting God to my own understanding, which unfortunately like most who reside on this earth, has been extremely warped due to the now inherent sinful nature of the flesh. That being said - I'd take a gander at saying, that neither of us has(or will have) a solid understanding of it.

Again - the most important thing for us to understand(and accept) though - is that God is *loving* Once we have done this - following his word becomes very easy, as does the motivation(and anticipation) for one to be with such a loving God. I sure know I'm looking forward to it.

Originally posted by peejayd
* "sitting at the right hand" does not mean equality in power and authority... it only means that, Christ in all His glory is also subjected to the Father who is greater than Him, albeit, the Most High... 😉

Philippians 2:5-8 "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

As you can see for the scripture above, Christ is indeed referred to as God - but again - he *humbled* himself to fulfill the will of the father. Christ was(is) at the right hand of the father, and was present during the creation of time/space/existence/life. For it is not written in the scriptures - *Let the Father make man* or *Let the Holy Spirit make man*, but instead it is written - *Let us make man*.

As stated above - *humility* seems to be a main lesson one should learn from this willful submission, as well the message of God's love - particularly his selflessly giving up his *authourity* for the purpose of saving mankind. You are grossly misinterpreting the scriptures - when you suggest that Christ is not equal to the father, and in essence disregarding(most likely purposely so) his obvious authourity, as well as diminishing his divinity.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
A [b]mistranslation you say ?

😆

How do you know what's mistranslation and what's not ? Are you just saying that to suit your own beliefs ?

You obviously do NOT follow the Bible literally, so therefore your intepretations of HELL are also non-biblical. Thanks for clarifying 👆

You make me smile 🙂 [/B]

Originally posted by Nellinator
But remember the fear of the Lord is not cowering and being afraid.
The word actually refers to reverence.
"To fear the Lord is to hate evil" Proverbs 8:13
Fear of the Lord is not a fear in the sense that we use it.

Reverence is indeed what I meant. Thanks for the clarification. I have to say though - At times I do feel like a bit of a coward, when it comes to facing God. Although I do love and respect him - and I know he loves me, and wouldn't do anything to hurt me - I must say there are times when the negative fear creeps in - and I think he might strike me with a stray lightening bolt or something, if I've done something that's displeasing...He..He..😉

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Although I do love and respect him - and I know he loves me, and wouldn't do anything to hurt me -

Except send you to Eternal Torment if you don't obey....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Christians LOVE to play with words, don't they ?

Fear is Fear....Love is Love. Enough of this "well technically" bullshit....

If you FEAR God, you FEAR him...FEAR should NOT be the motivation for doing good.

The negative version of *fear* is only present - because of sin. Adam and Eve knew no *fear* of God(although they did have respect and reverence for him) - before they ate from the tree of good and evil,

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Except send you to Eternal Torment if you don't obey....

Yes it is extremely difficult to obey the command *Love one another*...
We should all *individualize* love - to each his own I say. To some *love* can mean killing people - to others, *love* can mean having sex with young children or animals - there should be no restrictions on what love represents...no rules or standards. To each his(or her own).(Just to let you know - I'm being sarcastic).

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Yes it is extremely difficult to obey the command *Love one another*...
We should all *individualize* love - to each his own I say. To some *love* can mean killing people - to others, *love* can mean having sex with young children or animals - there should be no restrictions on what love represents...no rules or standards. To each his(or her own).(Just to let you know - I'm being sarcastic).

Tell that to all the people who were burned at the stake, accused of being witches. 😄 Apparently, your sarcasm works against your own religion, just fine. 😉