Originally posted by usagi_yojimboWe have another follower of the Dissociative Identity Disorder, oops meant Trinitarian, God, oh wait the two are synonymous. Sorry, but a perfect God would not lie and deceive by praying to himself using the term "Father" when referencing himself. A perfect God would not mislead his followers by stating that he himself was his only begotten son and in himself he was well pleased, oh, wait he didn't do this, God the Father was speaking of his Son, a separate being. A perfect God would not have two separate wills (not my will but thine). Trinitarian doctrine is blatantly erroneous if one reads the Bible, it is a sign of a lack of understanding.At face value - God has manifested himself in three different ways to his children(The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) - while at the same time revealing, that he is still only *one* God.
Don't worry, this isn't meant to be insulting, it is merely correction of wrong beliefs Usagi.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
No one truly knows the *will* of God. This post alone demonstrates the err in your position. No man of this earth, no angel above, or no demon below will ever have a complete grasp on everything that makes up God - nor everything that he does under the sun(within this rebellious age).However, God does give each one of us(his children) various levels of understanding - regarding his will. This practical understanding, or *common sense* - is usually demonstrated and practiced more often - by those who truly love him.
Despite our various level(s) of intellect and understanding(that God has given to us) - we should faithfully take what God says about himself at face value, and do our best to fulfill whatever it is he has purposed us for(which is not hard - if one truly understands that his purpose is a loving one).
At face value - God has manifested himself in three different ways to his children(The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) - while at the same time revealing, that he is still only *one* God. True followers of Christ - who have faith in his word - will accept this as truth(all of it), and will not purposefully attempt to misinterpret it - or rationalize God down to their own level of understanding. This discussion is becoming a circular one, and it is fairly apparent that at this point - you wish to discuss this subject mockingly, rather than rationally - so I do not wish to engage you in it any further. Good day to you. God bless.
***Usagi:
The person you are "dialoging" with is one who is a proponent of the old ARIAN heresy...which was defeated and condemned by the early Fathers of the Church. He [PJ'd] is a Jehovah Witness and NOT a Christian at all...no matter how much he quotes Scripture...for it is obvious he is in utter darkness and does NOT understand, in the least, the Scriptures he is quoting [i.e., this is understandable]...for the Word of God declares "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that ARE LOST" [2 Corinthians 4:3].
I have read his postings and have NOT dialoged with him...for I have seen the errors in his postings and realize that he is a idealogue of the Kingdom Hall heresies...a slave to the doctrine of Mr. Russell and Bishop Arius [that old APOSTATE of the early Church who was excommunicated].
I am NOT a POLITICALLY CORRECT individual...and will NOT even address him...for he is a DECEIVER and LIAR...and on the same level as the DISGUSTING sperm gulpper on this board.
Now Mr. Moderator...BAN me for life!!
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
***Usagi:The person you are "dialoging" with is one who is a proponent of the old ARIAN heresy...which was defeated and condemned by the early Fathers of the Church. He [PJ'd] is a Jehovah Witness and NOT a Christian at all...no matter how much he quotes Scripture...for it is obvious he is in utter darkness and does NOT understand, in the least, the Scriptures he is quoting [i.e., this is understandable]...for the Word of God declares "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that ARE LOST" [2 Corinthians 4:3].
I have read his postings and have NOT dialoged with him...for I have seen the errors in his postings and realize that he is a idealogue of the Kingdom Hall heresies...a slave to the doctrine of Mr. Russell and Bishop Arius [that old APOSTATE of the early Church who was excommunicated].
I am NOT a POLITICALLY CORRECT individual...and will NOT even address him...for he is a DECEIVER and LIAR...and on the same level as the DISGUSTING sperm gulpper on this board.
Now Mr. Moderator...BAN me for life!!
Marchello
I hope they do not ban you. I hope they let you go on with this crap so that your lifestyle and the garbage you spew can serve as a warning to everyone else who stumbles across your posts to avoid the willful ignorance in which you indulge.
See, you're exactly the kind of person for whom the "Who is a Christian?" thread was created. The only thing 99% of christians can agree on is that everyone except themselves is wrong.
Originally posted by Regret
We have another follower of the Dissociative Identity Disorder, oops meant Trinitarian, God, oh wait the two are synonymous. Sorry, but a perfect God would not lie and deceive by praying to himself using the term "Father" when referencing himself. A perfect God would not mislead his followers by stating that he himself was his only begotten son and in himself he was well pleased, oh, wait he didn't do this, God the Father was speaking of his Son, a separate being. A perfect God would not have two separate wills (not my will but thine). Trinitarian doctrine is blatantly erroneous if one reads the Bible, it is a sign of a lack of understanding.Don't worry, this isn't meant to be insulting, it is merely correction of wrong beliefs Usagi.
I think you're making the same mistake as Peejayd. It's impossible for us to discern(or completely understand) the *will* of a *perfect* God - particularly since we are *imperfect* beings(and filled with sin). God could have prayed to himself - in an effort to demonstrate humility(to us) - or he could be playing a joke on us - and laughing at all of our explanations as to why he represents himself in such a fashion...He..He..My basic point is(was) - that none of us truly knows.
But what we do know - is what he has told us within the scripture. He refers to the *word*(Jesus) as *God* - as well as commands us to not put any other *Gods* before him. It would be extremely contradictory for any aspect of God - to make such a command, seeing as how they would be denying the deity and devinity of one of the other manifistations(of *God*).
So all we can really testify to is what has been revealed to us(through his word) - and have faith in it. Despite all *personal* interpretations of what God represents - I have no doubts about the most important thing that he has represented to all of us - that thing being *love*(with the cross - as well as this gift of life and free will).
In response to your other argument - If I made an err regarding the terminology being used - so be it. I don't have any problem admitting that I'm wrong. But before I admit to making any mistakes, I'm going to check and see if in actuality I made one, particularly since the nature of the arguments of many individuals use on this board(against myself and others) - is usually one which entails purposeful(willfull) manipulation of the scriptures - for the sake of fulfilling their own agendas.
I'll have to look up the term *Trinity* - and its common usage within various religious denominations, specifically Protestant ones. Still - I think it is important to note - that at no point did I ever state that I followed or adhered strictly to any *Trinitarian* doctrine. Asserting that I did - is very fallicious(on both yours and Peejayd's part). I simply used the word *Trinity* to refer to the 3 manifestations of God, as they are referenced in the bible.
Regarding the term *Godhead* - I have already conceeded to Peejayd - that although this term is used to commonly refer to the *Trinity* by many Protestants(like myself) - it is done so incorrectly. You have provided no big *revelation* or big *mistake* to us by pointing this out(however once again - you have provided yet another example - of your liking to willfully misinterpret what has been stated).
Growing up as a Protestant(Baptist) myself - and listening to the sermons of many southern Baptist pastors - I had come to the understanding(and observed) that these terms were used synonomously by many when referring to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit(You know how those southerners are - they develop their own style of preaching the word..can I get an Amen?...He..He..).
So don't worry Regret - your wounded pride will be ever so graciously restored - and you will be able to once again - feel comfortable with your stature of being able to correct the *layman* -- if it is found that I have indeed made a mistake. And you'll be the second one I will let know - as well as thank for the *loving* correction.
Okay heres what I found out(I'm a very quick reader..he..he..he) - Many Unitarians like myself - often times loosely refer to the three aspects of the *one* God that they follow as the *Trinity* - just as much as they refer to the 3 aspects of the *one* God that they follow as the *Godhead*
Technically speaking - one is using the terms incorrectly if they claim to be a Unitarian Christian - however, like most words within the English language, people get comfortable with describing something in a certain fashion, despite being incorrect with their grammar or terminology - and there ain't much else anyone can do about it - other than except what the individual has said.
Those who are truly looking to find truth - will have enough faith in God, to be able to understand the true meaning of what's being said - despite any human error that may have taken place.
So Regret you were technically correct - thank you once again - for giving me this loving correction. Because of you(and God working through you) - when I am speaking to non-Christians, who are not familiar with my southern Unitarian vernacular - I'll make an extra effort to ensure that I use the technically correct words - when explaining Christ's truth to them. Once again many thanks.
Originally posted by Marchello
***Usagi:The person you are "dialoging" with is one who is a proponent of the old ARIAN heresy...which was defeated and condemned by the early Fathers of the Church. He [PJ'd] is a Jehovah Witness and NOT a Christian at all...no matter how much he quotes Scripture...for it is obvious he is in utter darkness and does NOT understand, in the least, the Scriptures he is quoting [i.e., this is understandable]...for the Word of God declares "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that ARE LOST" [2 Corinthians 4:3].
I have read his postings and have NOT dialoged with him...for I have seen the errors in his postings and realize that he is a idealogue of the Kingdom Hall heresies...a slave to the doctrine of Mr. Russell and Bishop Arius [that old APOSTATE of the early Church who was excommunicated].
I am NOT a POLITICALLY CORRECT individual...and will NOT even address him...for he is a DECEIVER and LIAR...and on the same level as the DISGUSTING sperm gulpper on this board.
Now Mr. Moderator...BAN me for life!!
Marchello
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
I feel so bad for you ! You are everything we try to avoid on these forums....you EMBODY everything I argue about on these forums. Feceman, Nellinator, Usagi, Regret...do you SEE what I have been talking about for months ?
Marcello you are SO consumed by your own Hatred, it's scary. Now, Capt Fant, myself, and a few others will only be annoyed by what you have to say, but you...you're trapped. You're a prisoner of Hatred, and I THANK you for proving my point about the Hatred that runs rampant through mainstream Christianity, and you saved me the trouble of having to explain it any further 👆
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆I feel so bad for you ! You are everything we try to avoid on these forums....you EMBODY everything I argue about on these forums. Feceman, Nellinator, Usagi, Regret...do you SEE what I have been talking about for months ?
Marcello you are SO consumed by your own Hatred, it's scary. Now, Capt Fant, myself, and a few others will only be annoyed by what you have to say, but you...you're trapped. You're a prisoner of Hatred, and I [b]THANK
you for proving my point about the Hatred that runs rampant through mainstream Christianity, and you saved me the trouble of having to explain it any further 👆 [/B]
You are correct; a loving person would never put what Marcello posted on the open forum because he/she would not wish to hurt anyone.
Originally posted by MarchelloYou are wrong... Mr. peejayd is not a member of Jehovah's Witnesses. He is a member of Church of God International. The doctrines are closely related to JW and Worldwide Church of God though.
***Usagi:The person you are "dialoging" with is one who is a proponent of the old ARIAN heresy...which was defeated and condemned by the early Fathers of the Church. He [PJ'd] is a Jehovah Witness and NOT a Christian at all...no matter how much he quotes Scripture...for it is obvious he is in utter darkness and does NOT understand, in the least, the Scriptures he is quoting [i.e., this is understandable]...for the Word of God declares "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that ARE LOST" [2 Corinthians 4:3].
I have read his postings and have NOT dialoged with him...for I have seen the errors in his postings and realize that he is a idealogue of the Kingdom Hall heresies...a slave to the doctrine of Mr. Russell and Bishop Arius [that old APOSTATE of the early Church who was excommunicated].
I am NOT a POLITICALLY CORRECT individual...and will NOT even address him...for he is a DECEIVER and LIAR...and on the same level as the DISGUSTING sperm gulpper on this board.
Now Mr. Moderator...BAN me for life!!
Marchello
And once again - I'm going to have to correct myself. It appears that I would indeed be a strict Trinitarian - as opposed to being a Unitarian - since Unitarianism deny's the Christ as being equal to the Father.
Exactly why I hate getting involved in theological denominational terminologies - they leave soo much room for confusion - and most of the time, when people debate using them, they tend to have the purpose of confusion in mind.
So in order to make some sense out of all of the confusion - Let me go ahead and define all of the terms, and I will once again explain(at least attempt to explain) - what belief system I would fall under.
Taken from Wikipedia:
Trinitarianism - Within Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is a single Being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a perichoresis of three persons
Unitarianism - Historic Unitarianism believed in the oneness of God and not the Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in one God) proclaimed at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Historic Unitarians believed in the moral authority, but not the deity, of Jesus.
So I would indeed fall under the catagory of being a Trinitarian - as I do believe that all the aspects of God(Father, Son, Holy Spirit) - are indeed one God.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Exactly why I hate getting involved in theological denominational terminologies - they leave soo much room for confusion - and most of the time, when people debate using them, they tend to have the purpose of confusion in mind.
Thats because there are so many ways to interperet that book.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimboSo, given your beliefs God is not trustworthy, as it could all be some grand joke, or perhaps it is all misunderstood due to our imperfection then. Your view of God is not a God I would worship.
It's impossible for us to discern(or completely understand) the *will* of a *perfect* God - particularly since we are *imperfect* beings(and filled with sin). God could have prayed to himself - in an effort to demonstrate humility(to us) - or he could be playing a joke on us - and laughing at all of our explanations as to why he represents himself in such a fashion...He..He..My basic point is(was) - that none of us truly knows.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimboGod the Father is to be worshipped, Christ as a God does not threaten God the Father as he is not put before God. Sorry, but to believe that Jesus prayed to himself, had a separate will from himself, etc. is in error. The God of your interpretation of the Bible is a liar by his actions. Trinitarian Doctrine is a laughable farce.
But what we do know - is what he has told us within the scripture. He refers to the *word*(Jesus) as *God* - as well as commands us to not put any other *Gods* before him. It would be extremely contradictory for any aspect of God - to make such a command, seeing as how they would be denying the deity and devinity of one of the other manifistations(of *God*).
Originally posted by usagi_yojimboBreaking it down:
And once again - I'm going to have to correct myself. It appears that I would indeed be a strict Trinitarian - as opposed to being a Unitarian - since Unitarianism deny's the Christ as being equal to the Father.Exactly why I hate getting involved in theological denominational terminologies - they leave soo much room for confusion - and most of the time, when people debate using them, they tend to have the purpose of confusion in mind.
So in order to make some sense out of all of the confusion - Let me go ahead and define all of the terms, and I will once again explain(at least attempt to explain) - what belief system I would fall under.
Taken from Wikipedia:
Trinitarianism - Within Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is a single Being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a perichoresis of three persons
Unitarianism - Historic Unitarianism believed in the oneness of God and not the Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in one God) proclaimed at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Historic Unitarians believed in the moral authority, but not the deity, of Jesus.
So I would indeed fall under the catagory of being a Trinitarian - as I do believe that all the aspects of God(Father, Son, Holy Spirit) - are indeed one God.
Trinitarian Doctrine = God with Dissociative Identity Disorder
The Trinity as proclaimed at the Council of Nicaea is a Catholic event, not representative of all Christians at the time. Even at the Council the vote to establish Trinitarian Doctrine was not unanimous, no matter the statement made at the council. The event of the Council is evidence of the Failing of the Catholic Church to maintain the original Gospel put forth by Christ. I follow the view of Arius in respect to the nature of the Godhead, and not the Catholic view put forth by St. Alexander. The Council of Nicaea was nothing more than a power play by Alexander, this is obvious by examining the records. Alexander usurped the authority of Meletius, while not stripping him of his rank, Alexander forced the clergy ordained by Meletius to yield to the clergy ordained by Alexander and ordered Meletius to be unable to ordain further clergy. Alexander pushed forth the idea that the patriarchs of Alexandria (Alexander) and Rome were of higher authority (exceptional authority given the actual terminology of the Council), giving him and his constituents greater power in the Church. Finally, Trinitarian Doctrine was Alexander's concept, and along with his power grabbing it also came forth with sufficient votes to be taken as doctrine. Now, assessing the voting statistics, one can see that those that supported Alexander's agenda gained some power at the Council while those who opposed he were proclaimed heretical. The Council was a political farce, not an action of humility and worship.
Any belief in the validity of Trinitarian Doctrine is acceptance of the legalistic interpretations you claim are in error. Your interpretation of the Bible on this matter also follows a legalistic and self serving interpretation, again you have claimed such is an erroneous manner of interpretation. The Nicene Creed is the major point of doctrine in the Catholic Church, it is the cornerstone of their faith, a faith you have claimed is mainly in error.