Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I just thought to add this, because I thought it was funny.
On the wall of our study room in library someone wrote :''I am going to pass into year 2 in Jesus' name, whether devil likes it or not''
Actually, that's year '8' according to the reality of the baby Jesus timeline.
Yes i believe Jesus is God himself or more like 1 of the Godheads. It's hard to explain it, but i will try some theology and metaphysical reality to interpret it, anyways here it goes: God is Spirit. In the old hebrew reference the jews called him 'El Shaddai' which literally means 'strength eternal/everlasting' and most likely they refered to him as 'YHWH' or 'the Eternal'. In the old testament times the jews believed that God was a singular being as they often say 'the Lord is One', it was only until Christ came that he revealed that there was actually a trinity or 3 manifestations of God thus Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is why the jews crucified him and thought that he was blaspheming God by claiming to be equal to him, and until now the jews are still waiting for THE messiah. Immagine a person existing only as pure conciousness and not having any physical attributes, this would be the closest explanation to what a spirit is, God is most likely just a pure conciousness that is why he is all-knowing, all-present, and all-powerful. Now about the trinity we're gonna make a little experiment, don't worry it's very simple. Take 3 matchsticks and then lit them up simultaneously i take it that now you percieve 3 flames right? Exactly! Now place them all together and then tell me what you see? Now there's only 1 flame, now here's my question: Can you really distinguish the flame and say that there is indeed 3 flames burning if there were no matchsticks? Of course not, i bet God is something like a fire having no form and yet exists forever, now if you place that flame on a candle stick do you think the flame changed into something? In the same way Jesus' flesh was really mortal flesh, but his spirit belonged to the Eternal circle which we refer to as God.
There i hope that helps!Lol
Originally posted by HULKSTER04
Yes i believe Jesus is God himself or more like 1 of the Godheads. It's hard to explain it, but i will try some theology and metaphysical reality to interpret it, anyways here it goes: God is Spirit. In the old hebrew reference the jews called him 'El Shaddai' which literally means 'strength eternal/everlasting' and most likely they refered to him as 'YHWH' or 'the Eternal'. In the old testament times the jews believed that God was a singular being as they often say 'the Lord is One', it was only until Christ came that he revealed that there was actually a trinity or 3 manifestations of God thus Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is why the jews crucified him and thought that he was blaspheming God by claiming to be equal to him, and until now the jews are still waiting for THE messiah. Immagine a person existing only as pure conciousness and not having any physical attributes, this would be the closest explanation to what a spirit is, God is most likely just a pure conciousness that is why he is all-knowing, all-present, and all-powerful. Now about the trinity we're gonna make a little experiment, don't worry it's very simple. Take 3 matchsticks and then lit them up simultaneously i take it that now you percieve 3 flames right? Exactly! Now place them all together and then tell me what you see? Now there's only 1 flame, now here's my question: Can you really distinguish the flame and say that there is indeed 3 flames burning if there were no matchsticks? Of course not, i bet God is something like a fire having no form and yet exists forever, now if you place that flame on a candle stick do you think the flame changed into something? In the same way Jesus' flesh was really mortal flesh, but his spirit belonged to the Eternal circle which we refer to as God.
There i hope that helps!Lol
HULKSTER04, this is a very good, well-thought out, well-written post. I especially like the matchstick illustration because it excellently describes the oneness (in nature) yet triune (in manifestation) truth about God. For, God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit: this is Who God is. Also you are correct in betting that God is something like a fire. Actually the Bible states that God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29 read also Ezekiel 1:27).
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*
Originally posted by HULKSTER04
Yes i believe Jesus is God himself or more like 1 of the Godheads. It's hard to explain it, but i will try some theology and metaphysical reality to interpret it, anyways here it goes: God is Spirit. In the old hebrew reference the jews called him 'El Shaddai' which literally means 'strength eternal/everlasting' and most likely they refered to him as 'YHWH' or 'the Eternal'. In the old testament times the jews believed that God was a singular being as they often say 'the Lord is One', it was only until Christ came that he revealed that there was actually a trinity or 3 manifestations of God thus Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is why the jews crucified him and thought that he was blaspheming God by claiming to be equal to him, and until now the jews are still waiting for THE messiah. Immagine a person existing only as pure conciousness and not having any physical attributes, this would be the closest explanation to what a spirit is, God is most likely just a pure conciousness that is why he is all-knowing, all-present, and all-powerful. Now about the trinity we're gonna make a little experiment, don't worry it's very simple. Take 3 matchsticks and then lit them up simultaneously i take it that now you percieve 3 flames right? Exactly! Now place them all together and then tell me what you see? Now there's only 1 flame, now here's my question: Can you really distinguish the flame and say that there is indeed 3 flames burning if there were no matchsticks? Of course not, i bet God is something like a fire having no form and yet exists forever, now if you place that flame on a candle stick do you think the flame changed into something? In the same way Jesus' flesh was really mortal flesh, but his spirit belonged to the Eternal circle which we refer to as God.
There i hope that helps!Lol
***Hulkster04:
Very helpful and Merry Christmas to you and your family!
The Scriptures teach that within the NATURE of the one true God exists THREE separate and distinct persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They are CO-EQUAL in NATURE and CO-ETERNAL. The Trinity is NOT three gods in one. Christians definitely do NOT believe that the Trinity doctrine is three gods in one. All through the Old Testament and many times in the New, we clearly see there is but ONE true God [Deuteronomy 6:4].
Galatians 4:8 is a very important, key Scripture in understanding the doctrine of the Trinity...and says the following: "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by NATURE are NOT gods"
[Galatians 4:8].
(Continued)
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Originally posted by Marchello
Page 1:***Hulkster04:
Very helpful and Merry Christmas to you and your family!
The Scriptures teach that within the NATURE of the one true God exists THREE separate and distinct persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They are CO-EQUAL in NATURE and CO-ETERNAL. The Trinity is NOT three gods in one. Christians definitely do NOT believe that the Trinity doctrine is three gods in one. All through the Old Testament and many times in the New, we clearly see there is but ONE true God [Deuteronomy 6:4].
Galatians 4:8 is a very important, key Scripture in understanding the doctrine of the Trinity...and says the following: "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by NATURE are NOT gods"
[Galatians 4:8].(Continued)
By this verse we now know that there is but one true God by NATURE. That true God which exists is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All THREE persons are ETERNAL, ALL-KNOWING, ALL-POWERFUL and EVERYWHERE PRESENT. Only the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit possess these four unique ATTRIBUTES. Therefore, they ALONE are by NATURE God.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that this God that we call the true God, that Christians worship and serve, is JUST the Father, or a SINGLE person known as the Father. I'll show you many reasons why Jesus IS God and why HE was WORSHIPPED, PRAYED TO, and ALSO why the Holy Spirit IS God as well.
The Bible teaches there is a PLURALITY in the GODHEAD...namely the FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT and they are ALL God.
Genesis 1:26,27 tells us the following; "Then [Elohim or] God said, 'Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the lvestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.' So [Elohim] God created man in HIS own image" [Genesis 1:26,27]. Again in Genesis 5:1 we read: "This is the written account of Adam's line. When [Elohim] God created man, HE made him in the likeness of God." It says the HE, singular, made man in HIS likeness. In Genesis 1:27, he [man] was made in HIS [God's] image and likeness. God was NOT talking to the ANGELS when HE said "let US make man in OUR image.
In the Book of Daniel 7:13,14 it states: "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was ONE like a SON of God, coming with the clouds of heaven. HE approached the ANCIENT OF DAYS [God] and was led into HIS presence. He was given AUTHORITY, GLORY and SOVEREIGN POWER; all peoples, nations and men of every language WORSHIPPED HIM. HIS dominion is an EVERLASTING dominion that WILL NOT pass away, and HIS KINGDOM is one that will NEVER be destroyed." The word in the Hebrew is "worshipped"...they WORSHIPPED the ONE who is called "SON of MAN" [The Lord Jesus Christ]. So not only is the ANCIENT OF DAYS [the FATHER] worshipped...we see that there is someone else that is separate and distinct FROM the Ancient of Days that is WORSHIPPED. Therefore, there is a PLURALITY in the GODHEAD...there has to be because ONLY the TRUE and LIVING God can be WORSHIPPED. To worship anything or anyone else would be IDOLATRY which is punishable by death.
Marchello
Originally posted by Regret
Marchello, your description of Trinitarian Doctrine is not accurate. It may be what you believe, but it doesn't hold with the Nicene Creed.
***Regret:
You are in ERROR. The Nicene Creed is NOT the Standard by which we determine what IS TRUTH and what IS NOT TRUTH. ONLY the SCRIPTURES are that AUTHORITY for it is written: "All scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God, and is PROFITABLE for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION in RIGHTEOUSNESS: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" [2 Timothy 3:16,17]. The Nicene Creed has elements in it that are correct...but it has statements in it that are in ERROR. Too, it is composed by men...is NOT inspired of God and subject to error.
Too, NOTHING that I have said is in ERROR and I have buttressed my statements by the appropriate Scriptures. You, on the other hand, have NOT appealed to the Word of God and made a statement NOT supported by Scripture. I have read your posts before...and I have NEVER seen you use scripture...and if you did, it was so seldom that I might have overlooked the fact that you did. Your logic is one of a secularist...tinged by your passion for things psychologically rational...and your belief system reflects that...it is, decidedly, NOT a BIBLICAL one.
Marchello
Originally posted by MarchelloI do not claim that the Nicene Creed is truth. But referencing Trinitarian Doctrine is referencing the Nicene Creed. The majority of Christian religions follow Trinitarian Doctrine, very few support any other view of the Godhead. Those that do not follow the Nicene Creed, myself being one that does not hold with the Nicene Creed, are considered heretics and typically not considered Christians by the majority of Christian religions. Among these groups are the Mormons, which I am one of.
***Regret:You are in ERROR. The Nicene Creed is NOT the Standard by which we determine what IS TRUTH and what IS NOT TRUTH. ONLY the SCRIPTURES are that AUTHORITY for it is written: "All scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God, and is PROFITABLE for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION in RIGHTEOUSNESS: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" [2 Timothy 3:16,17]. The Nicene Creed has elements in it that are correct...but it has statements in it that are in ERROR. Too, it is composed by men...is NOT inspired of God and subject to error.
Too, NOTHING that I have said is in ERROR and I have buttressed my statements by the appropriate Scriptures. You, on the other hand, have NOT appealed to the Word of God and made a statement NOT supported by Scripture. I have read your posts before...and I have NEVER seen you use scripture...and if you did, it was so seldom that I might have overlooked the fact that you did. Your logic is one of a secularist...tinged by your passion for things psychologically rational...and your belief system reflects that...it is, decidedly, NOT a BIBLICAL one.
Marchello
Originally posted by Regret
I do not claim that the Nicene Creed is truth. But referencing Trinitarian Doctrine is referencing the Nicene Creed. The majority of Christian religions follow Trinitarian Doctrine, very few support any other view of the Godhead. Those that do not follow the Nicene Creed, myself being one that does not hold with the Nicene Creed, are considered heretics and typically not considered Christians by the majority of Christian religions. Among these groups are the Mormons, which I am one of.
***Mormonism is NOT a Christian faith...and, of course, you are correct...we DO consider you heretics.
Marchello
Originally posted by MarchelloMormons are Christian, the true statement is that our beliefs are not in line with Trinitarian Doctrine. Trinitarian Doctrine does not define a Christian, nor do your beliefs. We believe the Bible, unless God himself told you directly that your interpretation of the Bible is correct, you have no true support for a claim that we are not Christian. And, since mainstream Christianity claims that prophets have not, and will not, exist following Christ, you cannot claim such. Hence, it is only the traditions of man that claim we are not Christian, not any statement in the scriptures.
***Mormonism is NOT a Christian faith...and, of course, you are correct...we DO consider you heretics.Marchello
*["Mormons are Christian..."]
***Scripture defines you as a CULT and NON-Christian because your doctrines deviate from their tenets. Too, I will delineate in another post the errors of your beliefs in great detail if you wish.
**************************************************
*["...the true statement is that our beliefs are not in line with Trinitarian Doctrine..."]
***True...nor are any of your beliefs in line with Christian doctrine at all.
**************************************************
*["...Trinitarian Doctrine does not define a Christian, nor do your beliefs..."]
***And, of course, ALL cultists would say that...because, by definition, they are at VARIANCE with the Scriptures...and ADD and SUBTRACT [i.e., Pearl of Great Price, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants] books and writings to bolster up their man-made doctrines because SOLA SCRIPTURA does NOT support them.
***************************************************
*["...We believe the Bible..."]
***You DO NOT believe the Bible or you would not ADD or SUBTRACT from it. The Scriptures ALONE do NOT support your specious belief system...THAT is precisely WHY you ADD the other books [which, BTW, CONTRADICT each other...and I will point out WHERE they do that in another post if you wish].
****************************************************
*["...unless God himself told you directly that your interpretation of the Bible is correct, you have no true support for a claim that we are not Christian..."]
***God HAS told us DIRECTLY in His Word...WHO He is...WHY He came...WHEN He came...HOW He came...WHAT is yet to happen. He did NOT leave us in darkness for He [Jesus Christ] is the Light of the world. Too, the Father sent the Holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus, to TEACH BORN AGAIN believers ALL things and will REMIND us of EVERYTHING Jesus said to us [John 14:26]...surely you believe that since you say you "believe the Bible"...right?
You are NOT a Christian because you are a polytheist...you believe in MANY "gods"...in fact, YOU believe YOU will become a "god" if you adhere to your "doctrines". So...a resounding "NO"...your faith is NOT a Christian faith no matter how much you protest to the contrary.
*****************************************************
*["...And, since mainstream Christianity claims that prophets have not, and will not, exist following Christ, you cannot claim such. Hence, it is only the traditions of man that claim we are not Christian, not any statement in the scriptures."]
***We do NOT need any more prophets to come...Jesus Christ CAME to SAVE SINNERS [Matthew 18:11-14] who come to Him in FAITH BELIEVING and REPENT of their sins. He COMPLETED His work and went back to the Father and SITS [indicating His COMPLETED WORK of SALVATION for man] at the RIGHT hand of the FATHER forever making INTERCESSION for us [Psalm 110:1]. We need NO OTHER SAVIOUR...NO OTHER "gods"...for there is but ONE GOD [Deuteronomy 6:4].
You are, DECIDEDLY, NOT a Christian faith...for you DENY every cardinal doctrine of the Christian faith and make MAN into a "god." In fact, you say God was " ONCE A MAN"...had "FLESH AND BONES."
Finally, YOU like all other cultists have ONE THING IN COMMON...you ALL deny the ABSOLUTE DEITY of Jesus Christ the Lord. That ONE DOCTRINE is WHAT determines whether a belief system is Christian or NOT...so YOURS is NOT...and that's the name of that tune.
Marchello
Thats all well and good Marchello but WE christians do consider Mormons christians and WE christians consider people like you to pompus overbearing assholes that cannot accept other people's beliefs.
You see Marchello there is one and only one requirement for being a christian and that is accepting Jesus Christ as the savior of human souls.
one last thing
AND DONT SIGN YOU ****ING NAME EVERY TIME
*["Thats all well and good Marchello but WE christians do consider Mormons christians..."]
***"WE?" I did not know that you spoke for EVERY "c"hristian...but then maybe you DO...but I KNOW of a certainty that you do NOT speak for EVERY "C"hristian.
Those "c"hristians [such as yourself] have NOT been BORN AGAIN by the Spirit of God and thus know NOT the TRUTH that they might be saved. They CANNOT differentiate between what is TRUTH and what is ERROR [as you evidently cannot]...and, as such, will side with the forces of darkness because they have NOT the LIGHT of the Lord Jesus Christ IN them through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by the NEW BIRTH.
One CANNOT hold to doctrines that are in OPPOSITION to what the Scriptures say...ANY such doctrines are antithetical to the Christian faith. The Scriptures are the FINAL AUTHORITY as to what is TRUTH and what is ERROR...and MORMONISM is in opposition to those TRUTHS. By embracing Mormons as "c"hristians you reveal your LOST condition and align yourself with those who are in OPPOSITION to the Lord Jesus Christ...the ABSOLUTE God of Heaven...the Mighty God [Isaiah 9:6]...the Prince of Peace...the ONLY Mediator between God and Man [1 Timothy 2:5].
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*["...and WE christians consider people like you to pompus overbearing assholes that cannot accept other people's beliefs."]
***You are CORRECT..."WE 'c'hristians'" [such as yourself] would consider people like me as such...because we stand in OPPOSITION to your ERRORS [i.e., Heresies]...and CANNOT and WILL NOT accept other people's beliefs because they are WRONG. The PERSON that I and REAL Christians ADORE and WORSHIP is Jesus Christ [the God of Heaven who visited man and clothed Himself in FLESH...to save SINNERS from the CONSEQUENCES of their SINS].
When He was with us He made some very EXCLUSIVE CLAIMS...one of them was: "...I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE: NO MAN cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME" [John 14:6]. Too, Jesus IS the Good Shepherd and says the following: "...He that entereth NOT by the DOOR into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the SAME is a THIEF and a ROBBER" [John 10:1]..."I am the DOOR: by ME if any man enter in, he shall be SAVED, and shall go in and out, and find pasture" [John 10:9]. So then...Jesus was NOT very tolerant of other people's opinions or belief systems. His CLAIMS pertaining to HIMSELF were in direct OPPOSITION to the then prevailing opinions of the CORRUPT religious system of His day. The SAME corrupt religious system prevails today...and they ALL have ONE thing in COMMON...THEY ALL REJECT THE DEITY of JESUS CHRIST! The Mormons REJECT the ABSOLUTE Deity of Jesus Christ...and you ACCEPT them as Christian. You, by doing this, align yourself AGAINST Jesus Christ...for He said: "He that is NOT WITH ME is AGAINST ME; and he that gathereth NOT WITH ME scattereth abroad" [Matthew 12:30].
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*["You see Marchello there is one and only one requirement for being a christian and that is accepting Jesus Christ as the savior of human souls."]
***You could NOT possibly have done that. Your MOUTH and WORDS betray you. You have a FILTHY mouth and a HARD heart...to wit: "...how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the ABUNDANCE of the HEART the MOUTH speaketh" [Matthew 12:34].
*******************************************************
*["AND DONT SIGN YOU ****ING NAME EVERY TIME."]
***N/A
Marchello
Today on the celebrated day of the Birth of Jesus, I wish everyone a good day.
AND.............. here comes the scolding.
I am SURE that Jesus was sent to earth to spread peace and instill oneness in all of mankind. HE would be digusted, disappointed and DEEPLY saddened by the people who put down others due to their differences. I am sure that he would be perfectly happy as long as we found a way to acknowledge and worship him in some form or fashion.
A CHRISTIAN IS A CHRISTIAN................... they are no wrong and right christians..... sure they may do things differently, but they still are based on generally the same teachings. SO Marchello, if u want only one sect to be THE RIGHT CHRISTIANS, then you are have LOST THE TRUE MEANING OF CHRIST'S TEACHINGS.
ps........ dont go posting scripture( that you use) in response....... it IS NOT the ONLY Scripture that spreads God's word.
Originally posted by Marchello
***Regret:You are in ERROR. The Nicene Creed is NOT the Standard by which we determine what IS TRUTH and what IS NOT TRUTH. ONLY the SCRIPTURES are that AUTHORITY for it is written: "All scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God, and is PROFITABLE for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION in RIGHTEOUSNESS: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" [2 Timothy 3:16,17]. The Nicene Creed has elements in it that are correct...but it has statements in it that are in ERROR. Too, it is composed by men...is NOT inspired of God and subject to error.
Too, NOTHING that I have said is in ERROR and I have buttressed my statements by the appropriate Scriptures. You, on the other hand, have NOT appealed to the Word of God and made a statement NOT supported by Scripture. I have read your posts before...and I have NEVER seen you use scripture...and if you did, it was so seldom that I might have overlooked the fact that you did. Your logic is one of a secularist...tinged by your passion for things psychologically rational...and your belief system reflects that...it is, decidedly, NOT a BIBLICAL one.
Marchello
I agree with this post Marchello. I have come to the exact conclusion about Regret's posts as well. Regret fails to support his beliefs with the Word of God.
Originally posted by Marchello
*["Mormons are Christian..."]***Scripture defines you as a CULT and NON-Christian because your doctrines deviate from their tenets. Too, I will delineate in another post the errors of your beliefs in great detail if you wish.
**************************************************
*["...the true statement is that our beliefs are not in line with Trinitarian Doctrine..."]
***True...nor are any of your beliefs in line with Christian doctrine at all.
**************************************************
*["...Trinitarian Doctrine does not define a Christian, nor do your beliefs..."]
***And, of course, ALL cultists would say that...because, by definition, they are at VARIANCE with the Scriptures...and ADD and SUBTRACT [i.e., Pearl of Great Price, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants] books and writings to bolster up their man-made doctrines because SOLA SCRIPTURA does NOT support them.
***************************************************
*["...We believe the Bible..."]
***You DO NOT believe the Bible or you would not ADD or SUBTRACT from it. The Scriptures ALONE do NOT support your specious belief system...THAT is precisely WHY you ADD the other books [which, BTW, CONTRADICT each other...and I will point out WHERE they do that in another post if you wish].
****************************************************
*["...unless God himself told you directly that your interpretation of the Bible is correct, you have no true support for a claim that we are not Christian..."]
***God HAS told us DIRECTLY in His Word...WHO He is...WHY He came...WHEN He came...HOW He came...WHAT is yet to happen. He did NOT leave us in darkness for He [Jesus Christ] is the Light of the world. Too, the Father sent the Holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus, to TEACH BORN AGAIN believers ALL things and will REMIND us of EVERYTHING Jesus said to us [John 14:26]...surely you believe that since you say you "believe the Bible"...right?
You are NOT a Christian because you are a polytheist...you believe in MANY "gods"...in fact, YOU believe YOU will become a "god" if you adhere to your "doctrines". So...a resounding "NO"...your faith is NOT a Christian faith no matter how much you protest to the contrary.
*****************************************************
*["...And, since mainstream Christianity claims that prophets have not, and will not, exist following Christ, you cannot claim such. Hence, it is only the traditions of man that claim we are not Christian, not any statement in the scriptures."]
***We do NOT need any more prophets to come...Jesus Christ CAME to SAVE SINNERS [Matthew 18:11-14] who come to Him in FAITH BELIEVING and REPENT of their sins. He COMPLETED His work and went back to the Father and SITS [indicating His COMPLETED WORK of SALVATION for man] at the RIGHT hand of the FATHER forever making INTERCESSION for us [Psalm 110:1]. We need NO OTHER SAVIOUR...NO OTHER "gods"...for there is but ONE GOD [Deuteronomy 6:4].
You are, DECIDEDLY, NOT a Christian faith...for you DENY every cardinal doctrine of the Christian faith and make MAN into a "god." In fact, you say God was " ONCE A MAN"...had "FLESH AND BONES."
Finally, YOU like all other cultists have ONE THING IN COMMON...you ALL deny the ABSOLUTE DEITY of Jesus Christ the Lord. That ONE DOCTRINE is WHAT determines whether a belief system is Christian or NOT...so YOURS is NOT...and that's the name of that tune.
Marchello
Fantastic Marchello, I have done the same thing with regard to showing contradictions in Mormonic beliefs as they relate to the Bible.