Originally posted by peejayd
* parallels what others do... interpretations over what they call as "facts"... still semantics... different basis though...
By the way... if you want... to seem less ridiculous... you could... stop typing... like this...
Originally posted by King Kandy
That is not semantics... you can look it up if you want... If it concerns a difference in citations, it is not semantics...By the way... if you want... to seem less ridiculous... you could... stop typing... like this...
* typing with ellipsis is not ridiculous... it's fine with my eyes... 😛
Originally posted by peejayd
* do you have an proof that humans really evolved from a common ancestor with all other primates? this is just a discussion of beliefs so what i accept as my belief is applicable to you... hence my belief in the Bible parallels your belief in the theory of evolution...
No, my belief in evolution does not parallel with your belief in the bible. I have read and studied the bible, but you have not studied evolution. I'm sure you have heard of it, but having evolution presented to you by a Christian with an agenda to make evolution look wrong is NOT a good way to gain even a basic understanding of evolution.
Originally posted by peejayd
* and what is that "tree of life"? 🙄
Originally posted by peejayd
* the 6 million years came from an interpretation just like the 3.5 billion years came from scientific inferences and assumptions...
No assumptions here. The age of the Earth is determined by radio active decay of material inside of ancient crystals.
Originally posted by peejayd
* liberal interpretations include literal interpretations, that's the reason why it's liberal... but the Bible does not speak only literal things:"For [b]the word of God
is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart."
Hebrews 4:12* the word of God might be literal and/or spiritual... i don't have problems with Calvanistic interpretations regarding the salvation of the elect by God's grace alone... and i don't understand why it should be controversial to you... i mean, if you don't believe in the Bible, why bother? 🙄[/B]
Because I have seen the evil of that belief manifest its self in the lives of people.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, my belief in evolution does not parallel with your belief in the bible. I have read and studied the bible, but you have not studied evolution. I'm sure you have heard of it, but having evolution presented to you by a Christian with an agenda to make evolution look wrong is NOT a good way to gain even a basic understanding of evolution.
* i studied evolution, it was studied from primary to tertiary education in my country, and never by a Christian... look how you assume things... you, on the other hand, did not study the Bible as you claim to be because if you do, you would know how much good it brings to people... so much hate, bro, that's not healthy...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
* is that an amoeba? the source? 😕
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No assumptions here. The age of the Earth is determined by radio active decay of material inside of ancient crystals.
* i believe you would claim to have studied that too, am i correct? this is where you failed, claiming something where your belief in fact strongly parallels mine... we just accept different beliefs and basis...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Because I have seen the evil of that belief manifest its self in the lives of people.
* as if you've seen them all? piece of advice: stop the hate and stop the blame... we are all people and we are responsible for what we do... of course there are repercussions but that not mean absolute... if you've seen the evil a certain belief manifest in a person, you're not alone, i have also seen it, both believers and non-believers of the Bible, both Christian and non-Christian... so don't blame and single out Christianity, it's absurd to make such generalization as if you've seen them all... 😉
Originally posted by peejayd* in the time of Methuselah, it was possible because the human body then is not yet exposed to harmful effects in man-made food, drinks and environment... now if you consider other verses, let me give you this:
"The days of our lives are [b]seventy years
; And if by reason of strength they are eighty years, Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, and we fly away."
Psalms 90:10* now tell me, is this true in our time or not? 😉
* the Bible never states Noah built the ark by himself...
* read the context...
* well, isn't it?
* i missed it, bro... the Bible is also a history book and it narrates what happened in the past... and with it includes several words from God and from the devil... albeit, there are really two opposing forces that contradict with each other... that is the plain truth, you should know it better... have you read a good book lately? where the antagonist directly contradicts the protagonist? you tell me...
* if there's no way to justify it... this is just a matter of semantics... your belief and the other... no point of argument... [/B]
in the ideal enviornment, with the ideal food, and ideal drink, humans can still not live to be 200. this is a bilogical and genetic FACT. the argument that good diet and enviornment can make sum1 live that long is psuedoscientific bull.
yet it does say that he put one pair of every animal on it, which is ludicrous, considering the lengths men wud have to go to to get those animals{impossible} much less fitting them all on and then keeping them alive with all their functions on a frigging boat. do u have any idea how many species there are?
and? what does the context mean if its written by the devil to deceive. this still remains a ridiculous copout with no1 being able to tell what is written by the devil and what by god.
the bible is not a historical book, since it narrates events that never happened historically, the flood and the resorrection of jesus among them. historians contradict with the bible as much as scientists do. and what u r saying still makes no sense. to me its a manmade book claimed to be the work of god by beleivers and when challenged due to the historical inaacuracies, logical and scientific contradictions etc, ONE beleiver came out and and threw a circular unfalsifyable rationalisation making SOME of it the work of the devil{giving no evidence for it} while being unable to say WHAT parts................ so u see, u still havent been able to answer the original allegation of the whole book being manmade.
lol, it not a matter of semantics at ALL. its a matter of FACT, no matter what age u give to CELESTIAL time, or different time measurements, the WORLD still ends up being OLDER than that, MATHEMATICALLY. so ur wrong, FACTUALLY, not semantically.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
in the ideal enviornment, with the ideal food, and ideal drink, humans can still not live to be 200. this is a bilogical and genetic FACT. the argument that good diet and enviornment can make sum1 live that long is psuedoscientific bull.
* that's where faith comes in... you don't believe, but i do believe... but i'm not forcing you to believe...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
yet it does say that he put one pair of every animal on it, which is ludicrous, considering the lengths men wud have to go to to get those animals{impossible} much less fitting them all on and then keeping them alive with all their functions on a frigging boat. do u have any idea how many species there are?
* of course, Noah by himself did not put the animals in the ark... the animals went there because God commanded them to...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
and? what does the context mean if its written by the devil to deceive. this still remains a ridiculous copout with no1 being able to tell what is written by the devil and what by god.
* you said it yourself, the devil's words are to deceive, whilst God's are the truth... two opposing forces, of course they contradict...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
the bible is not a historical book, since it narrates events that never happened historically, the flood and the resorrection of jesus among them. historians contradict with the bible as much as scientists do. and what u r saying still makes no sense. to me its a manmade book claimed to be the work of god by beleivers and when challenged due to the historical inaacuracies, logical and scientific contradictions etc, ONE beleiver came out and and threw a circular unfalsifyable rationalisation making SOME of it the work of the devil{giving no evidence for it} while being unable to say WHAT parts................ so u see, u still havent been able to answer the original allegation of the whole book being manmade.
* in Roman history, it was confirmed that there was "a certain Jesus of Nazareth who died on the cross"... historians should know that, i don't know about you...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol, it not a matter of semantics at ALL. its a matter of FACT, no matter what age u give to CELESTIAL time, or different time measurements, the WORLD still ends up being OLDER than that, MATHEMATICALLY. so ur wrong, FACTUALLY, not semantically.
* and as if those are the exact facts? just like what i said,
* i believe you would claim to have studied that too, am i correct? this is where you failed, claiming something where your belief in fact strongly parallels mine... we just accept different beliefs and basis...
that's where faith comes in... you don't believe, but i do believe... but i'm not forcing you to believe...
no thats where DOGMA and self delusion comes in which forces you to accept sumthing false as being true. "faith" is a word thats tossed around to justify a lot, as if it had an inherent value or place to be able to justify anything. faith is beleif without and often against evidence "{i.e. stupidity and denial}, and if FAITH is why u belived in it the first place then why did u feel the need to introduce any logic into ur argument. seeing as u were gonna go back to FAITH inevitably.
* of course, Noah by himself did not put the animals in the ark... the animals went there because God commanded them to...
my point was, how did they fit and survive there?
* you said it yourself, the devil's words are to deceive, whilst God's are the truth... two opposing forces, of course they contradict...
no i said what u claimed. im asking how can YOU tell the difference, and if what u say is really true then why hasnt the bible been re written with only god's words? it remains a circular copout
* in Roman history, it was confirmed that there was "a certain Jesus of Nazareth who died on the cross"... historians should know that, i don't know about you...
CORRECTION. in CHRISTIAN history it was confirmed thsat a certain jesus of nazareth died ont he cross. seeing as the larger civilisation that followed was CHRISTIAN. it was a given. in REAL history, historians are still puzzling over whether jesus existed or not.
* and as if those are the exact facts? just like what i said,
i dont care what our BELEIFS are i care if we base them on OBJECTIVE FACTS, and there are never two objective facts. FACTUALLY, any rationalisation ur bringing up puts the age of the universe at younger than its factual age. i dont care what u base it on, its still FALSE.
Originally posted by peejayd
* i studied evolution, it was studied from primary to tertiary education in my country, and never by a Christian... look how you assume things... you, on the other hand, did not study the Bible as you claim to be because if you do, you would know how much good it brings to people... so much hate, bro, that's not healthy...* is that an amoeba? the source? 😕
* i believe you would claim to have studied that too, am i correct? this is where you failed, claiming something where your belief in fact strongly parallels mine... we just accept different beliefs and basis...
* as if you've seen them all? piece of advice: stop the hate and stop the blame... we are all people and we are responsible for what we do... of course there are repercussions but that not mean absolute... if you've seen the evil a certain belief manifest in a person, you're not alone, i have also seen it, both believers and non-believers of the Bible, both Christian and non-Christian... so don't blame and single out Christianity, it's absurd to make such generalization as if you've seen them all... 😉
I used to be a Christian, a long time ago. I studied the bible a great deal. I don't study it any more. I study Buddhism now.
Most people who claim there is no proof to evolution learned this from other Christians with an agenda. Why would you be any different?
I don't hate; I confront evil. So, in your mind, if you confront evil, then you hate? That is really strange.
All things can manifest good or evil.
Originally posted by peejayd
...* is that an amoeba? the source? 😕...
This only confirms my belief that you do not understand evolution. Why would a modern amoeba be at the base of a the tree of life? The illustration only looks like an amoeba. Perhaps that is a reflection of the artists ignorance. The life form that would be at the base of the tree of life would be a primitive life form that is the common ancestor of all living things on the Earth today. We don't know what this life form was like. It has been extinct for a very long time. Also, evolution has nothing to do with origins of life.
No assumptions here. The age of the Earth is determined by radio active decay of material inside of ancient crystals.
Because I have seen the evil of that belief manifest its self in the lives of people
my only problem is when people assume that beleif is the bane of all of humanities evils. its not.
Originally posted by Sado22
but its only a rough estmate. the earth's age as 4.5 billion is still an estimate based on the particles they studied in the solar system. the oldest one was around 4.5billion and that's where this number comes from.
Originally posted by Sado22
..the same belief has also inspired people to donate money and organs, shelter the poor, feed the hungry, help the needy. of course, belief doesn't gaurantee these at all but belief has certainly inspired many to do these things, many of which who wouldn't be doing these things unless told to do so.my only problem is when people assume that beleif is the bane of all of humanities evils. its not.
We are talking about Calvinism, right? I was not talking about Christianity in general.
Yes, it is an estimate. I don't know where you got the idea that I was talking in absolutes. The big difference is that the age of the Earth is estimated from physical evidence while this other number if estimated from a book written by humans.
as for Calvinism...er..forgive my ignorance but i don't know what you're talking about. i wasn't talking about christianity either but religon in general.
Originally posted by Sado22
true.as for Calvinism...er..forgive my ignorance but i don't know what you're talking about. i wasn't talking about christianity either but religon in general.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
no thats where DOGMA and self delusion comes in which forces you to accept sumthing false as being true. "faith" is a word thats tossed around to justify a lot, as if it had an inherent value or place to be able to justify anything. faith is beleif without and often against evidence "{i.e. stupidity and denial}, and if FAITH is why u belived in it the first place then why did u feel the need to introduce any logic into ur argument. seeing as u were gonna go back to FAITH inevitably.
* something true in what time? there are many differences in the past and present... miracles do happen...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
my point was, how did they fit and survive there?
* the ark was very huge... and it was only for 40 days and nights... they have plenty of food inside...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
no i said what u claimed. im asking how can YOU tell the difference,
* it's fortunate i know how to read, bro... how about reading, "and God said...", "and Jesus said...", "and the devil said...", etc... you can read, can't you? 😕
Originally posted by leonheartmm
and if what u say is really true then why hasnt the bible been re written with only god's words? it remains a circular copout
* why rewrite? it's really easy to identify who's speaking... you're the first one i've encountered who does not know the difference between the words of God and the devil in the Bible...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
CORRECTION. in CHRISTIAN history it was confirmed thsat a certain jesus of nazareth died ont he cross. seeing as the larger civilisation that followed was CHRISTIAN. it was a given. in REAL history, historians are still puzzling over whether jesus existed or not.
* wrong... the Christian history is already written in the Bible... Roman history confirmed that there was "a certain Jesus of Nazareth who died on the cross"...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
i dont care what our BELEIFS are i care if we base them on OBJECTIVE FACTS, and there are never two objective facts. FACTUALLY, any rationalisation ur bringing up puts the age of the universe at younger than its factual age. i dont care what u base it on, its still FALSE.
* your belief does not say the exact age of the universe, just like mine... your basis does not automatically mean it's already the truth...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I used to be a Christian, a long time ago. I studied the bible a great deal. I don't study it any more. I study Buddhism now.
* maybe you studied but you did not learn... Buddhism is also a religion, and some people claimed Buddha is God or a deity, your Buddhism has lapses too, just like what you say in Christianity... and by the way, you can separate Christianity from Catholicism because those two are entirely different...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Most people who claim there is no proof to evolution learned this from other Christians with an agenda. Why would you be any different?
* because i studied and learned it from a non-sectarian, "non-religion" school in my country... based from what you've said, it is also safe to say that you studied the Bible from people with an agenda, too...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't hate; I confront evil. So, in your mind, if you confront evil, then you hate? That is really strange.
* reject evil, cleave what is good -> Romans 12:9... 🙂
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All things can manifest good or evil.
* then why single out Christianity? you're biased, admit it... 😛
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This only confirms my belief that you do not understand evolution. Why would a modern amoeba be at the base of a the tree of life? The illustration only looks like an amoeba. Perhaps that is a reflection of the artists ignorance. The life form that would be at the base of the tree of life would be a primitive life form that is the common ancestor of all living things on the Earth today. We don't know what this life form was like. It has been extinct for a very long time. Also, evolution has nothing to do with origins of life.
* how can that be credible when it includes the ignorance of the artist? 🙄
Originally posted by peejayd
…* maybe you studied but you did not learn...
That is a cop-out. I once studied to be a preacher. I know what the Holy Spirit feels like. Did you know that I still feel the Holy Spirit when I chant? How is that possible?
Originally posted by peejayd
Buddhism is also a religion, and some people claimed Buddha is God or a deity, your Buddhism has lapses too, just like what you say in Christianity... and by the way, you can separate Christianity from Catholicism because those two are entirely different...
There are a lot of people who believe a lot of different ways in Buddhism. I personally, do not believe in the supernatural. I think that mythology is a way for humans to try to understand something that is impossible to understand. Lapses don’t matter to Buddhism. The practice ether works, or it doesn’t. Buddhism is practical, and about this life.
I see no difference between Christianity and Catholicism. The differences are superficial.
Originally posted by peejayd
* because i studied and learned it from a non-sectarian, "non-religion" school in my country... based from what you've said, it is also safe to say that you studied the Bible from people with an agenda, too...
That agenda was to separate me from the real world, and have me do their bidding.
Originally posted by peejayd
* reject evil, cleave what is good -> Romans 12:9... 🙂
And what are you trying to say with this out of context line?
Originally posted by peejayd
* then why single out Christianity? you're biased, admit it... 😛
Because I know about Christianity. I try to talk about the things I know. Life works out better that way.
Originally posted by peejayd
* how can that be credible when it includes the ignorance of the artist? 🙄
There is no artist. The universe simply is, and has always been.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Give me a legit source for that. I bet you can't.
* this might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is a cop-out. I once studied to be a preacher.
* there are gazillions of Christian sects and groups out there... are you telling me that your former group represents the whole?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know what the Holy Spirit feels like. Did you know that I still feel the Holy Spirit when I chant? How is that possible?
* how do you know/discern that it's the Holy Spirit?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There are a lot of people who believe a lot of different ways in Buddhism. I personally, do not believe in the supernatural. I think that mythology is a way for humans to try to understand something that is impossible to understand. Lapses don’t matter to Buddhism. The practice ether works, or it doesn’t. Buddhism is practical, and about this life.
* so is the Christianity in the Bible... so according to you, believing in a Supreme Being is not practical? iirc, you believe in Jesus, yet Jesus believes in a Supreme Being...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I see no difference between Christianity and Catholicism. The differences are superficial.
* there is a big doctrinal difference...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That agenda was to separate me from the real world, and have me do their bidding.
* true Christianity does not force anyone to do one's bidding... ha! you claimed to have known Christianity yet you have only encountered a false one...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
And what are you trying to say with this out of context line?
* rejecting evil is better than just confronting it... no more, no less...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Because I know about Christianity. I try to talk about the things I know. Life works out better that way.
* nope, you're just misled and was a former member of a false Christian group... the Christianity in the Bible does not force anyone to do one's bidding, within that Church/community, majority of the people are loving, caring, truthful, honest and good, guided by the true Holy Spirit...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no artist. The universe simply is, and has always been.
* the universe is a creation by an Almighty Creator... 🙂