Jesus Christ

Originally posted by clickclick
As to Jesus being called mighty God and Everlasting Father, Lord of hosts etc, you contend that it really says that? Thats surprising given the position you have taken.

I said, as what the Bible has said:

Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Again... "and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

🙂

Originally posted by clickclick
Yes but the point is that the bible says that everything was created by Jesus. It says that of the word and of the son. Jesus is attributed as being the word of God.

Not literally is your interpretation, obviously but it isnt necessary to take a non literal interpretation. Saying that for without him, nothing was made that has been made is consistent with what ive been saying. It doesnt say for without a plan, never is that how things are potrayed. It is always that it was him there.

Again, the verse does not say that Christ created all things. Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Word as used by John. Thus, the word is about Jesus Christ. Now, what is written is “All things were made through Him”. However, this doesn’t imply that Jesus Christ Himself is the Almighty Creator since this would contradict what is written in Malachi 2:10 that the Father alone is the Creator.

Malachi 2:10
The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
Don't we all come from one Father? Aren't we all created by the same God? So why can't we get along? Why do we desecrate the covenant of our ancestors that binds us together?

Apostle Paul, on the other hand, explains why all things were made through Christ:

“For by Him all things were created
that are in heaven and that are on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones
or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
Colossians 1:16

God created all things for Christ. As to why all things were created for Him, Apostle Paul again explains:

“God did what he had purposed,
and made known to us the secret plan
he had already decided to compete by means of Christ.
This plan, which God will complete when the time is right,
is to bring all creation together, everything in heaven and on earth,
with Christ as head.”
Ephesians 1:9-10, TEV

This is part of God's will.

God, who will bring all creation together, is different from Christ to whom all things will be brought together. Christ cannot be the Creator for He is also one of those whom God created—“He is the first-born Son, superior to all created things.” (Col. 1:15, Ibid.)

Thus, the term “created through Him” only means that all creation, especially man, would necessitate a Mediator and Savior—the Lord Christ (I Tim. 2:5; Acts 5:31).

So, when God aid the plan for salvation, He created the Lord Jesus Christ for, without Him as a Savior, God wouldn’t have made anything that was made. Thus, the true Creator is God:

“For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him.”
Colossians 1:16, TEV

Is this the way you repay the LORD ,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is he not your Father, your Creator,
who made you and formed you?
Deuteronomy 32:6 (NIV)

🙂

Again, Jesus was foreknown before the foundation of the world. That's why He was considered as the firstborn to all creation. He was planned by God in the very beginning. And God has revealed to us His will. And this will was purposed in Christ Jesus. So, God created everything so His will shall be fulfilled. God, being omniscient, knew everything even those that are not yet happening. The sin entered the world and the answer for this is the Christ. So, He made an everlasting covenant to His people in order for them to be saved. The covenant from Abraham up to his Seed, Jesus Christ. Christ's glory can be seen even though He was not existing yet... because God had proclaimed it. And God will surely do it.

Jesus Christ became the reason why God created everything. For without Jesus, nothing was made that has been made.

So, Jesus Himself didn't create everything.

God, our Father, created everything THROUGH, FOR, and BY our Lord Jesus Christ.

God, our Father - the one and only true God - remains the Creator.

You can repeat it as much as youd like but you have yet to make sense of it. It says the father created through the son. It was by the son that everything is.

Being foreknown is one thing. Being created by somebody who didnt exist, is another. Saying that jesus was the reason that everything was made, still doesnt rectify this either.

So. Jesus and God, having the same title as the "Alpha and Omega", these two are both Gods?

Surely, you'll answer, a big NO!

Again, Jesus, having titles similar to God does not prove He is God.

Maybe, the Holy Sprit also is called the "Alpha and Omega"? What you think?

Two God's? Is the holy spirit called the alpha and the omega?

His having the SAME title as God the father does not prove show that he is the Father but that he is divine.

His being the Alpha and Omega is explained in the bible though you dont want to accept it.

I didn't say that Jesus Christ was called "mighty God", or "Everlasting Father," etc.

I said, as what the Bible has said:

Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Again... "and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Its not relevant whether you said he should be called anything. Im wondering why you didnt refute what the bible says about his name.

“All things were made through Him,
and without Him nothing was made that was made.”
John 1:3 (NKJV)

Again, the verse does not say that Christ created all things. Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Word as used by John. Thus, the word is about Jesus Christ. Now, what is written is “All things were made through Him”. However, this doesn’t imply that Jesus Christ Himself is the Almighty Creator since this would contradict what is written in Malachi 2:10 that the Father alone is the Creator.

This verse says all things were made through him. You have to take a non literal interpretation in order to hold your position. Nice try though to distort what it says. Secondly, the bible does say that Jesus Christ specifically created everything to clear up your confusion.

Malachi 2:10
The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
Don't we all come from one Father? Aren't we all created by the same God? So why can't we get along? Why do we desecrate the covenant of our ancestors that binds us together?

Apostle Paul, on the other hand, explains why all things were made through Christ:

“For by Him all things were created
that are in heaven and that are on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones
or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
Colossians 1:16

God created all things for Christ. As to why all things were created for Him, Apostle Paul again explains:

“God did what he had purposed,
and made known to us the secret plan
he had already decided to compete by means of Christ.
This plan, which God will complete when the time is right,
is to bring all creation together, everything in heaven and on earth,
with Christ as head.”
Ephesians 1:9-10, TEV

This doesnt support what you are saying. And, Jesus is worthy of being worshiped so you shouldnt pretend like it would be some kind of crime to acknowledge that everything was created by him as the bible so says. The Father would not have you worship anyone but one divine and the exact representation of him. Im following what the bible clearly says over and over, that it was by Jesus Christ that everything was created.

This is part of God's will.

God, who will bring all creation together, is different from Christ to whom all things will be brought together. Christ cannot be the Creator for He is also one of those whom God created—“He is the first-born Son, superior to all created things.” (Col. 1:15, Ibid.)

Thus, the term “created through Him” only means that all creation, especially man, would necessitate a Mediator and Savior—the Lord Christ (I Tim. 2:5; Acts 5:31).

So, when God aid the plan for salvation, He created the Lord Jesus Christ for, without Him as a Savior, God wouldn’t have made anything that was made. Thus, the true Creator is God:

“For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him.”
Colossians 1:16, TEV

Is this the way you repay the LORD ,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is he not your Father, your Creator,
who made you and formed you?
Deuteronomy 32:6 (NIV)

His being firstborn, doesnt support anything you are saying. Thus, nice try. God the Father (founder) through Jesus the Son.

And who was it that they saw and spoke to in the old Testament? The bible says that it couldnt have been the Father.. So, who was that again?

🙂

The One who is speaking and "have seen" in the OT is none other than the LORD [YHWH] - this is the God our Father - the Creator.

Is this the way you repay the LORD ,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is he not your Father, your Creator,
who made you and formed you?
Deuteronomy 32:6 (NIV)

So, the Father, the Creator, who created us and formed us, is the Son?

So, the Father, the Creator, who created us and formed us, is the Son?

No.. The Father is the founder and created everything through the son. So it was by the son that all was created.

The One who is speaking and "have seen" in the OT is none other than the LORD [YHWH] - this is the God our Father - the Creator.

Is this the way you repay the LORD ,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is he not your Father, your Creator,
who made you and formed you?
Deuteronomy 32:6 (NIV)

The bible has made it clear that it couldnt have been the Father that they saw so......... Ill give you another guess.

And again,

I didn't say that Jesus Christ was called "mighty God", or "Everlasting Father," etc.

I said, as what the Bible has said:

Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Again... "and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This doesn't mean that Jesus is called the mighty God... or Jesus is called the Everlasting Father....

But His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Why so?

Because of the government that shall be upon his shoulder. This is the authority that God has given him from His birth.

...Given Him the name above every name...
...and His name shall be called "Wonderful Counsellor is God Almighty, the eternal Father, and the Prince of Peace".

... This is the title of the government that God has entrusted to Jesus.
... The name given to him came from God... His name is above every name and has a title:

Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus was God made man....part of the trinity Father, Son, Holy spirit

Christ was not made God. Jesus Christ Is God in the flesh Read 1st John 10;30. There are many more scriptures also! He was the ultimate Lamb sacrifice. He had to go through all that for sinners to be saved. In the old testament sins were pushed forward by the blood of animal sacrices, never totall wiped out, until God came in the flesh and shed his Holy Blood by which we are saved when we are baptized in his name, and filled with his spirit, Acts2;38

John 10:30 doesn't prove Lord Jesus Christ is God.

the new testament doesnt prove anything

Let us see! John 10;30- JESUS said I and my Father are one. I do not think it can get ANY CLEARER than that!]

[the whole UPCI Church for one! Why don't you read the book of Revelation and find out how many "GODS" were on the throne. There was ONE! There is one! Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are titles, just like aunt, mom, and sister. The Bible tells that the Word is God and that the Word walked among us but we knew him not! He had to become flesh to understand our suffering, why we find it so hard to obey! He was the ultimate Lamb sacrifice! We are saved by the shedding of his blood when we get baptized in his name, and also filled with his Holy Spirit. Everything He did was to fulfill the Old Testament Prophecies and bring us into the new covenant.]

the bible doesnt proove a thing it is all based on beliefs not facts

pray

The Bible is historically correct! There is historical PROOF that Jesus walked the earth and was crucified. That was on something even you might believe, The Discovery Channel! The old Testament was written by many different people who not only did not know each other but had no telephones or mail service to communicate. Yet the major and minor prophets all predicted the coming of Jesus Christ, His deathand Resurrection. If people were to follow Jesus and live the way he wants us to live, there would be no hate and war in this world, God is pure Love, That is his greatest commandment, to love each other as He loved us! And with that said, no matter what anyone believes it is a much better life I live in a relationship with Jesus , than I would have without. And yes, it is a relationship, I communicate with, and depend on him everyday! God Bless1