Originally posted by sonnet
2 Tim3:16-17 "All scipture is given by inspiration of God, .......17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoughly furnished unto all good works."Matt 4:4 (Jesus was speaking here) "But He answered and said, It is written, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Well in 2 Tim...you are quoting Paul....a gnostic....
Matt 4:4...is Jesus yes, and he was in contradiction to many of Paul teachings.
Just like most sceptics you take only part of what was said and twist it around. So childish.
If you are only refering to christians then I agree with you. Most of them are confused because they depend on Sunday sermons to teach them how to believe and behaveif you consider yourself christian you wouldnt have used MOST OF THEM, but MANY OF US.......
Originally posted by debbiejo
Well in 2 Tim...you are quoting Paul....a gnostic....Matt 4:4...is Jesus yes, and he was in contradiction to many of Paul teachings.
If you've read the Gnostic's you'd see that when Paul mentions "The Mystery of Christ" he was referring to the Inner mysterious that Christ is not a person but a Truth of god that is within you....The church manipulated the scriptures to make it conform to what they wanted....The "Mysterious of Christ" is also mentioned in Scripture, but have been minipulated as well, not what Paul was really meaning. ...The gnostics consider him a piller of their faith also.......Its' also though that Jesus was an Essene.
Also, Paul preached against woman in the church preaching, so that goes against gods teaching with the Prophetess....Gods word also says that it is good that a man be married and cleave to his wife, Paul didn't teach that, but said it is better to say alone...Paul taught you must deny all the flesh...that is a gnostic teaching for purity....
Originally posted by finti
if you consider yourself christian you wouldnt have used MOST OF THEM, but MANY OF US.......
Originally posted by sonnet
I am a christian who has accepted Jesus as the Saviour, believes the word of God and studies the Bible to grow spiritually and are not dependant on a church.
Other Christians do that also, so what sets you apart from them?...They might say they are the TRUE Christians and you are deceived...
Originally posted by debbiejo
Other Christians do that also, so what sets you apart from them?...They might say they are the TRUE Christians and you are deceived...
Baptised?..well the thief on the cross wasn't baptised...
So you're saying that even though a person can have ALL the fruits of the spirit , but has decided to no longer to follow Jesus as their savior is forever doomed?
Also, Confusion as you call it is just seeing things as they really are..The problem is that many are too afraid of what they might find if they start looking at the WHOLE fact of what really is...Many also believe that this CONFUSION is just Satan tempting them...which is a lie.
So, which church is considered the TRUE church, because they all say they are?
And which parts should you be obedient to...because there are too many contractions...
Jesus' last words
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
OR
God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
OR
Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)
or
ON PUNISHING CRIME
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20
"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5
OR
ON TEMPTATION
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." -- James 1:13
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..." -- Genesis 22:1
OR
ON FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS
"Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26
Originally posted by finti
why is that funny the gnostic was about that jesus wasnt a physical body so that god didnt appear as man
Romans 1:9" For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, .....
You need only read the whole of Romans to see that claiming Paul was gnostic is ridiculous beyond words.
Romans 10 :9 " That if thou shall confess with they mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou sahll be saved".
Originally posted by debbiejo
Baptised?..well the thief on the cross wasn't baptised...So you're saying that even though a person can have ALL the fruits of the spirit , but has decided to no longer to follow Jesus as their savior is forever doomed?
Also, Confusion as you call it is just seeing things as they really are..The problem is that many are too afraid of what they might find if they start looking at the WHOLE fact of what really is...Many also believe that this CONFUSION is just Satan tempting them...which is a lie.
So, which church is considered the TRUE church, because they all say they are?
And which parts should you be obedient to...because there are too many contractions...
Originally posted by debbiejo
ORGod be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
There was a historian named Justus of Tiberius who was a native of Galilee, the homeland of Jesus. He wrote a history covering the time when Christ supposedly lived. This history is now lost, but a ninth-century Christian scholar named Photius had read it and wrote: "He [Justus] makes not the least mention of the appearance of Christ, of what things happened to him, or of the wonderful works that he did." (Photius' Bibliotheca, code 33)
Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the sug- gestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."
This truly appears to give historical confirmation for the existence of Jesus. But is it authentic? Most scholars, including most fundamentalist scholars, admit that at least some parts of this paragraph cannot be authentic. Many are convinced that the entire paragraph is a forgery, an interpolation inserted by Christians at a later time. There are many reasons for this:
The paragraph is absent from early copies of the works ofJosephus. For example, it does not appear in Origen's second-century version ofJosephus, contained in Origen Contra Celsum where Origen fiercely defended Christianity against the heretical views ofCelsus. Origen quoted freely from Josephus to prove his points, but never once used this paragraph, which would have been the ultimate ace up his sleeve.
In fact, the Josephus paragraph about Jesus does not appear until the beginning of the fourth century, at the time ofConstantine. Bishop Eusebius, a close ally of emperor Constantine, was instrumental in crystallizing and defining the version of Christianity which was to become orthodox, and he is the first person known to have quoted this paragraph of Josephus. Eusebius said that it was permissible for Christians to tell lies if it furthered the kingdom of God.] The fact that the Josephus-Jesus paragraph shows up at this time of history, at a time when interpolations and revisions were quite common, makes the passage quite dubious. Many scholars beheve that Eusebius was the forger.
The passage is out of context. In Book 18, which contains the paragraph about Jesus, Josephus starts with the Roman taxation under Cyrenius in 6 AD, talks about various Jewish sects at the time, including the Essenes, and a sect of Judas the Galilean. He discusses Herod's building of various cities, the succession of priests and procurators, and so on. Chapter 3 starts with a sedition against Pilate who planned to slaughter all the Jews but changed his mind. Pilate then used sacred money to supply water to Jerusalem, and the Jews protested. Pilate sent spies into the Jewish ranks with concealed weapons, and there was a great massacre.
Then comes the paragraph about Jesus, and immediately after it, Josephus continues: "And about the same time another terrible misfortune confounded the Jews . . ." Josephus, an orthodox Jew, would not have thought the Christian story to be "another terrible misfortune." It is only a Christian (someone like Eusebius) who would have considered this to be a Jewish tragedy. Paragraph 3 can be lifted out of the text with no damage to the chapter. It flows better without it.
Josephus would not have called Jesus "the Christ" or "the truth." Whoever wrote these phrases was a Christian. Josephus was a messianic Jew and never converted to Christianity. Origen reported that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ."
There are many historical reference Sonnet
The Latin that Erasmus translated from the Greek revealed enormous corruptions in the Vulgate's integrity amongst the rank and file scholars, many of whom were already convinced that the established church was doomed by virtue of its evil hierarchy. Pope Leo X's declaration that "the fable of Christ was very profitable to him"
Erasmus screws up!!!..He let the secret out!....this is the Popes own words...
There is a law suit against the Catholic church.....http://www.luigicascioli.it/ateismo_eng.php This was translated from Italian to English....It's a good site.