Originally posted by debbiejoSince the pagans worshipped trinities anyway it made it easier to connnvert them if they had three people. I looked up that quote from pope leo x it says "How much we and our family have profited by the legend of Christ, is sufficiently evident to all ages. http://www.cob-net.org/text/history_popeleo.htm
Most christians do believe in a "trinity', for what reason? I honestly don't know...Maybe they should of taught more a duality of just Father and son, making the son god..The god that came down and sacrifices himself...But as for the holy spirit..I don't see the purpose. Though there is one really really bad scriptures that states if you sin against the holy spirit you've committed the unpardonable sin, though no one really knows what that sin is..
Jesus was a devout Jew; there is no way he woulda called himself God. He was also Not looking to start any new faith (however, Saul ---> St. Paul, was). But Jesus was likely disgusted with how, at least in some aspects, Judaism was practiced in his day--not unlike how many feel about organized religion today.
It is, unfortunately, difficult to keep in mind the difference between what Jesus may've actually said (assuming for the moment he was a real person), what is written that he said, AND interpretations of what is written of what he said.
A lot of MGIBTYG psychology went into the evolution of Christianity, which, unfortunately (IMO) clouded over its positives (yes, it does have positives, as does any genuine faith before it devolves into religionism).
On the word ECHAD
A Response to Son of Man's Statement No. 1
Let us concentrate first on the #1 of your so-called 'truths'.
Originally posted by Son of Man
1.There is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 44:8). Note that the Hebrew word for ‘one’ is echad which means composite unity — it is used in Genesis 2:24 where the husband and wife become ‘one flesh’. The word for absolute unity is yachid which is never used of God in the Scripture.
It is untrue to say that the Hebrew word echad (one) in Deut. 6:4 points to a compound unity. A recent defense of the Trinity argues that when “one” modifies a collective noun like “cluster” or “herd,” a plurality is implied in echad. The argument is fallacious. The sense of plurality is derived from the collective noun, not from the word “one.” Echad in Hebrew is the numeral “one.” Isa. 51:2 describes Abraham as “one” (echad), where there is no possible misunderstanding about the meaning of this simple word.- Anthony Buzzard
Think it over. Is Abraham a “compound unity”?
There is no reference to the word “one” as to a plurality of any kind. It is used of “one” in number, “the first” in a series, “one” in the sense of “the same,” and “one” in the sense of “each” or “a certain one.” A study of its uses in the Old Testament will reveal its simple meaning and the truth it conveys.
1. It is translated “first” in Genesis 1:5, when God made light on the “first” day.
2. The whole earth spoke “one” language before Babel (Gen. 11:1).
3. Hagar cast her child under “one” of the bushes (Gen. 21:15).
4. In Pharaoh’s dream, there were seven ears of grain on “one” stalk (Gen. 41:5).
5. In the plague on Egypt’s livestock, not “one” cow died in Israel (Ex. 9:6).
6. Exodus 12:49 says that Israel shall have “one” law for the citizen and the foreigner.
The examples are far too many to list. ECHAD is used more or less 960 times in the Old Testament, and there is no hint in any Jewish commentary or lexicon that it somehow implies a “compound unity.” Learn from it.
Deuteronomy 6:4, in fact, is one of the strongest texts against the Trinity. God is “one,” not “three-in-one” or some other plurality. This has been the rallying cry of Jews down through the ages who have stood aggressively against any form of polytheism or pantheism. Jesus quoted this verse as part of the first and great commandment:
“Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul
and with all your mind and with all your strength”
Mark 12:29-30
It is quite inconceivable that Christ would be promoting some form of the doctrine of the Trinity while at the same time quoting Deuteronomy that God is “one” to a Jewish audience who would be sure to misunderstand him. It is much more reasonable to believe that Jesus was simply affirming that if we are to love God with all our heart we must be certain who He is—the one [ECHAD] God of Israel.
Conclusion
S.O.M. statement No.1 which he claimed to be one of the 'truths' is factually fallacious.
🙂
Next topic:
On the phrase EGO EIMI
A Response to Son of Man's Statement No. 2
Originally posted by yoda545
i have 3 questions to anyone who belives in christanity....
1 - does christanity teach that god is powerful?
2 - is jesus god?
3 - if jesus is god and god is powerful than why couldn't he save himself from being cruxifed????
I think the most important thing here to mention is that Jesus never wrote down that he was a god - other people said that he said he was a god - we don't actually know whether he did or not - his dead.
I think Christians and Jesus are...not exactly on the same frequency
Originally posted by lil bitchinessDING DING DING!!!
I think the most important thing here to mention is that Jesus never wrote down that he was a god - other people said that he said he was a god - we don't actually know whether he did or not - his dead.I think Christians and Jesus are...not exactly on the same frequency
You win........Christians follow Paul.
Originally posted by JuryThey can't give a logical answer so they just avoid the question. The most common answer is jesus was in his human form so he called god his god.
I'm back!!! 😱Great vacation!!! Jumpy
Oh, did I miss some fun? 🙂
20 days have passed.... S.O.M. still failed to address my questions.
Don't worry. I'll consider your posts next time. 😉
Originally posted by JuryThis is the NASBC exhaustive concordance H259. echad, [25c]; a prim. card. number; one:-- alike(1), all at once(1), alone(2), altogether(1), another(31), any(17), any*(1), anyone*(1), apiece(1), certain(11), certain man(1), each(55), each*(4), eleven*(9), eleventh*(2), every(1), everyone(1), few(3), first(38), forty-first*(1), forty-one*(4), numbered(m)(1), once(15), once*(4), one(610), one thing(2), one-tenth(2), only(2), other(33), outermost*(1), same(m)(26), single(15), some(2), thing(2), thirty-first*(1), thirty-one*(3), together(3), twenty-first*(4), twenty-one*(4), uniformly*(2), unique(4), unison(1), unit(4), united(1), who(1), whom(1), 61*(1), 621*(2), 721*(1), 41500*(2), 61000*(1), 151450*(1).
[b]On the word ECHAD
A Response to Son of Man's Statement No. 1Let us concentrate first on the #1 of your so-called 'truths'.
S.O.M. pointed out that the Hebrew word “one” ECHAD in Deuteronomy 6:4 and other verses like Isaiah 44:8 indicates a “composite” or a “compound unity.” This is what he considers ‘truth’. Well, sad to say, it is not true. Let’s check on a scholarly view:
Look unto Abraham your father,
and unto Sarah that bare you:
for I called him alone [ECHAD], and blessed him,
and increased him.
Isaiah 51:2Think it over. Is Abraham a “compound unity”?
There is no reference to the word “one” as to a plurality of any kind. It is used of “one” in number, “the first” in a series, “one” in the sense of “the same,” and “one” in the sense of “each” or “a certain one.” A study of its uses in the Old Testament will reveal its simple meaning and the truth it conveys.
1. It is translated “first” in Genesis 1:5, when God made light on the “first” day.
2. The whole earth spoke “one” language before Babel (Gen. 11:1).
3. Hagar cast her child under “one” of the bushes (Gen. 21:15).
4. In Pharaoh’s dream, there were seven ears of grain on “one” stalk (Gen. 41:5).
5. In the plague on Egypt’s livestock, not “one” cow died in Israel (Ex. 9:6).
6. Exodus 12:49 says that Israel shall have “one” law for the citizen and the foreigner.The examples are far too many to list. ECHAD is used more or less 960 times in the Old Testament, and there is no hint in any Jewish commentary or lexicon that it somehow implies a “compound unity.” Learn from it.
Deuteronomy 6:4, in fact, is one of the strongest texts against the Trinity. God is “one,” not “three-in-one” or some other plurality. This has been the rallying cry of Jews down through the ages who have stood aggressively against any form of polytheism or pantheism. Jesus quoted this verse as part of the first and great commandment:
“Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul
and with all your mind and with all your strength”
Mark 12:29-30It is quite inconceivable that Christ would be promoting some form of the doctrine of the Trinity while at the same time quoting Deuteronomy that God is “one” to a Jewish audience who would be sure to misunderstand him. It is much more reasonable to believe that Jesus was simply affirming that if we are to love God with all our heart we must be certain who He is—the one [ECHAD] God of Israel.
Conclusion
S.O.M. statement No.1 which he claimed to be one of the 'truths' is factually fallacious.🙂
Next topic:
On the phrase EGO EIMI
A Response to Son of Man's Statement No. 2 [/B]