Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you're arguing scaling doesn't work...Then attempt to use scaling? Huh.
The fact that Abhi has to resort to other character's feats is an indirect concession that Black Adam doesn't have those kinds of feats, or if he does, he's not aware of them. That's all that needs to be said, Surfer wins in terms of feats.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But you are scaling things to 'planetary' and 'star' levels.
Scaling is inferring a character's ability to replicate another character's feats based on the premise that they're more powerful.
Originally posted by Astner
Even if you want to assume that it's small, stars need to undergo hydrogen fusion at the core, which requires a minimum mass of roughly 75 Jupiter Masses.
No assumption, it's directly stated to be an infant star.
Where are you getting this from? Not even Atrocitus or Larfleeze have planet-level feats, and they were stronger than any Green Lantern.
I'm sure you could find planet-level feats for Hal, John, and Kyle (due to their amount of exposure) but those would certainly not be as casual or as plentiful as the Silver Surfer's myriad of planet-busting feats.
😂
They're far better actually. Wanna find out?
Not to mention that your argument would be disingenuous even if it was true, because you implicitly acknowledge that Black Adam doesn't have the feats to compete with the Silver Surfer, and instead opt to scale the character in a medium where scaling is highly dubious at best and nonexistent at worst. DC isn't Dragon Ball, just because Batman punches out Wonder Woman doesn't mean that you can conclude that they're in the same weight-class.
Adam oneshotting Pariah is better than anything Surfer has ever done. Just one feat, forget about the rest of his feats.
The Power Cosmic.
Meaningless.
You don't have to transfer anything. The DC Omniverse is threatened and disrupted by time travel. Given the context, it's not an impressive feat.
Its power was compared to the big bang itself but yeah Rip Hunter is omniversal level because now we want to use scaling.
You're comparing a Kyle's construct with a diameter of roughly 10 meters (the purpose of which was to ward off vampires) to an actual star because he dubbed it an "Artificial Sun?" Are you serious?
Yes, how big was Surfer's totally natural star? How many jupiter masses did Kyle create?
I like the fact that Omniverse is fragile because Flash(whom amped by entire SF)/Gog/Extant/Dr Manhattan did it. I.E, getting scaling down
While Surfer created an *infant* sun puts him at star-level, despite judged by the scans posted in this thread, he has many feats that suggest otherwise.....Maybe suns in Marvel are also fragile?
Originally posted by Astner
No. I did the scaling first to showcase that it would be detrimental to his position even if it was legitimate, before pointing out that it wasn't.The fact that Abhi has to resort to other character's feats is an indirect concession that Black Adam doesn't have those kinds of feats, or if he does, he's not aware of them. That's all that needs to be said, Surfer wins in terms of feats.
Its not scaling.
Pariah was directly stated to be more powerful than Empty Hand and Darkseid and actually survived the destruction of the entire multiverse before his power up at the hands of Great Darkness.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I like the fact that Omniverse is fragile because Flash(whom amped by entire SF)/Gog/Extant/Dr Manhattan did it. I.E, getting scaling downWhile Surfer created an *infant* sun puts him at star-level, despite judged by the scans posted in this thread, he has many feats that suggest otherwise.....Maybe suns in Marvel are also fragile?
Let's compare GLs with Surfer again because that's always fun.
Let's start with black holes.
A living galaxy throws a group of GLs through its supermassive black hole which swallows multiple planets. Bonus, its written by the same writer who had Surfer repeatedly struggle against black hole (Steve Englehart). Green Lantern Corps 217/218.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/qNFkMSc
A rookie GL saves himself and his entire planet in a black hole for years. Green Lantern New Corps 2.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/pjcy60S
A rookie lantern tanks a supernova but is killed by the resultant black hole. Green Lantern Corps Recharge 1.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/pFqJfG4
Soranik Natu survives a supernova and a black hole. GLC recharge 1
https://postimg.cc/gallery/JsF0TyB
Isamot and Vath survive a black hole and a supernova. GLC recharge 2.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/JrW4wZ7
Guy Gardner goes through a black hole.
https://postimg.cc/KKthzRJp
A group of lanterns go through a supermassive black hole which destroys entire multiverse at 20% power level and down. Final Crisis 5/6/7.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/XBbHkVb
Several Lanterns including SInestro , Simon Baz and B'dg survive within chamber of shadows which is inside a black hole. Green Lantern v5 18
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3hCrp1H
Jessica Cruz survive a black hole and Simon Baz pulls her out of the black hole. Green Lanterns 36.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/ZSKqkRC
Surfer
Originally posted by abhilegend
Also as no Surfer fan dared to do this, let me post Surfer's interactions with black holes.Good feats, fights inside a black hole and uses black hole as a wormhole. Resists the pull of a black hole.
Bad ones: Got almost crushed to death until Galactus saves him. From SS v3 9.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/m1vLLsy
Koed by the same black hole in SS v3 15.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/msFySwx
Had to use Lord Chaos and Master Order's help to get through the same black hole in SS v3 18.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/SqSj1yP
KOed by collision with a black hole.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/BS7w2Sy
Knocked out trying to enter a black hole from SS v4 5/6.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1S0WSH3
Unable to deal with a tiny black hole as per his own admission. Star Masters 2.
Got almost killed by a black hole. Silver Surfer Black Director's cut 1.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And of course triggering a supernova and holding it in his shields.Or a quantum singularity.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oblivion also creates a black hole casually.And something bigger, like a Quasar.
The punchline? He is just a construct who is using Kyle's power to do it.
Yeah, Kyle can create constructs who can create black holes and quasars.
Why is surfer more powerful again, eh?
Originally posted by abhilegend
How is this not an energy projection feat?
But meh, planet busting!!!!
Originally posted by abhilegend
No assumption, it's directly stated to be an infant star.
That said, infant doesn't mean small. It means young. Which makes sense considering it was newly created, and unless a star externally accretes more mass during its lifetime it's at its largest during its infant-state because it continuously radiates mass-energy over its lifetime.
That said, even if we assume that it was a small star it wouldn't matter, because it would still be many orders of magnitude beyond any of Black Adam's quantifiable feats.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Hold the line bucko, we are talking about rookie Lanterns here. No need to bring up Larfleeze.
Originally posted by abhilegend
They're far better actually. Wanna find out?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Adam oneshotting Pariah is better than anything Surfer has ever done. Just one feat, forget about the rest of his feats.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its power was compared to the big bang itself but yeah Rip Hunter is omniversal level because now we want to use scaling.
Don't blame me. I didn't write Flashpoint Beyond #5.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, how big was Surfer's totally natural star?
Originally posted by abhilegend
How many jupiter masses did Kyle create?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not to mention a small star makes Surfer 75 jupiter mass level but Kyle creating an artificial sun makes him "are you serious" level.
And you want to compare this to an actual star. Because he called it an "artificial sun."
Originally posted by abhilegend
But meh, planet busting!!!!
Not sure where this feat is from but containing a singularity is meaningless nonsense. If you've done quantum mechanics, you know that singularities show up all over the place. See infrared- and ultraviolet divergence for reference.
Not only was Entropy more powerful than either Kyle or Superman, but he was distracted by the black hole he created. Meanwhile, the black hole the Silver Surfer created (and could be seen from outside of the galaxy) didn't seem to pose a threat to him in the slightest.
The "quasar" wasn't a quasar, and it was mistaken for a neutron star (which is about the size of Manhattan) and nothing of its size was clearly specified, other than it had to feed off dark matter which proves that (regardless of what it was) Entropy could not sustain it with his own power, like the Surfer can.
And the last feat is just Kyle destroying a planet. Which I already granted. And it wouldn't surprise me if it's his only planet-busting feat either. After all, he's not Surfer.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But if I didn't interpret it wrong, the script Abhi posted states the star Surfer created is "little miniature sun", I.E small star, no?
Either way, it doesn't contradict the fact that it was a star. And I never assumed it was anything more than a small star.
So, I missed the other scan compilation. But again, high-end portrayals of Lanterns have to shield themselves from supernovae from many astronomical units of distance away (which arguably doesn't make the defensive feat planet-level) is not that impressive, especially since Surfer frequently surfs on supernovae. Conclusively, his passive durability surpasses that of shielded Lanterns. And he's also been inside of black holes too without shields, for whatever that's worth.
But defensive feats have nothing to do with their ability to cause damage. And this is where the Lanterns fall short, Surfer has more planet-busting feats than all of them combined. This despite his limited publications.
So, despite cherry-picking feats throughout the history of DC that have no direct connection to Black Adam, you still can't surpass the Surfer's feats.
Originally posted by Astnermhmm
So, I missed the other scan compilation. But again, high-end portrayals of Lanterns have to shield themselves from supernovae from many astronomical units of distance away (which arguably doesn't make the defensive feat planet-level) is not that impressive, especially since Surfer frequently surfs on supernovae. Conclusively, his passive durability surpasses that of shielded Lanterns. And he's also been inside of black holes too without shields, for whatever that's worth.But defensive feats have nothing to do with their ability to cause damage. And this is where the Lanterns fall short, Surfer has more planet-busting feats than all of them combined. This despite his limited publications.
So, despite cherry-picking feats throughout the history of DC that have no direct connection to Black Adam, you still can't surpass the Surfer's feats.
I'd like to add that Abhi is actively ignoring newer comics where even the strongest Lanterns, like Atrocitus or Larfleeze, don't have these kinds of feats. He has to fall back to the Silver Age to substantiate his case and even then, all he can do is come up with arguments for how much the Lantern's shields can absorb. Which, ironically enough, is less than the Surfer can withstand unshielded.
But at this point Abhi has already thrown Black Adam under the bus.
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
mhmm
Originally posted by Astner
Why are you pulling out the script when the scan says the same thing?
Because you apparently need confirmation about it.
That said, infant doesn't mean small. It means young. Which makes sense considering it was newly created, and unless a star externally accretes more mass during its lifetime it's at its largest during its infant-state because it continuously radiates mass-energy over its lifetime.
Good thing the handbooks confirm it was a small star.
Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Handbook confirmed that Surfer created a "small star" to blast Knull.
mmm
That said, even if we assume that it was a small star it wouldn't matter, because it would still be many orders of magnitude beyond any of Black Adam's quantifiable feats.
Its beyond omniversal?
Funny, because Larfleeze doesn't have the feats to compete with Surfer either.
Good thing Hal alone has better feats than Surfer.
Yeah, show me.
Pick 5, no ten best feats of Surfer, I'll show you twice the amount of better feats from GLs, deal?
No, it's not.
Scintillating argument.
Omniversal but not quite planet-level.
Which, again, points to omniversal not being particularly impressive or meaningful when it comes to DC.
Good thing Surfer isn't from DC.
Don't blame me. I didn't write Flashpoint Beyond #5.
I blame you for your idiocy only.
We don't know. But a fair assumption would be at least that of a small star.
If it had any then it was negligible because it didn't tear apart the planet with its gravity. Oh, sorry, you wanted to make up a mass for it? [/B]
Did Surfer's star tore apart the planet?
Originally posted by Astner
[B]First feat is from DC One Million, not an actual supernova, just Solaris going nuclear, and Solaris was not particularly big.
Nonsense. Solaris when his core collapsed becomes a neutron star.
Solaris was going supernova and it would've become a neutron star (which itself is at least 15 times heavier than a sun).
Not sure where this feat is from but containing a singularity is meaningless nonsense. If you've done quantum mechanics, you know that singularities show up all over the place. See infrared- and ultraviolet divergence for reference.
This quantum singularity was destroying stars and solar systems. GL v3 165-167.
Not only was Entropy more powerful than either Kyle or Superman, but he was distracted by the black hole he created.
Meanwhile, the black hole the Silver Surfer created (and could be seen from outside of the galaxy) didn't seem to pose a threat to him in the slightest.
And the quasar oblivion created was about to collapse the entire universe.
The "quasar" wasn't a quasar, and it was mistaken for a neutron star (which is about the size of Manhattan) and nothing of its size was clearly specified, other than it had to feed off dark matter which proves that (regardless of what it was) Entropy could not sustain it with his own power, like the Surfer can.
And the last feat is just Kyle destroying a planet. Which I already granted. And it wouldn't surprise me if it's his only planet-busting feat either. After all, he's not Surfer.
Surfer's not a GL. He wishes he was.
Originally posted by Astner
So, I missed the other scan compilation. But again, high-end portrayals of Lanterns have to shield themselves from supernovae from many astronomical units of distance away (which arguably doesn't make the defensive feat planet-level) is not that impressive,
Let's see Jessica Cruz shielding a planet and keeping it together inside a supernova.
especially since Surfer frequently surfs on supernovae. Conclusively, his passive durability surpasses that of shielded Lanterns.
Surfing on supernovas is supposed to be impressive?
And he's also been inside of black holes too without shields, for whatever that's worth.
Only once without damage, the most recent times he almost died.
But defensive feats have nothing to do with their ability to cause damage. And this is where the Lanterns fall short, Surfer has more planet-busting feats than all of them combined. This despite his limited publications.
He has three-four planet busting feats, Lanterns have at least a dozen. Not to mention above planetary feats where they have far more than Surfer.
Not sure where you learnt math.
So, despite cherry-picking feats throughout the history of DC that have no direct connection to Black Adam, you still can't surpass the Surfer's feats.
Only in your dreams.
