Batman 89 and Batman Returns

Started by bakerboy6 pages

We are talking here about batman, not about spelling, if you want to talk crap about spelling, go to a school or something.

If you think that those heights of imdb are the bible, you are on crack. There are a lot of height mistakes in that page. Only see the reality, compare their heights with another people heights in the movies. Keaton isnt 5'10 and bale is 6'1.

I repeat, batman has being even more hurted in the comics and he did beat the crap of people like killer croc, clayface or man-bat, who are monsters of superhuman strenght. Batman, as a martial arts expert, could beat that guy more easily that he had in the movie, even with the plane crash and all.

Nex time post some arguments more reasonable, because those ones are just crap.

I thought Batman in his first movie was more of a boogeyman..the way they portrayed him. He wasn't supposed to be "in your face, i'll kick ur ass" sorta guy. Kinda like how they did him in Batman Begins as well...he just appears and disappears

Look at him in the VERY FIRST scene. He let those guys shoot bullets into him, he fell, and the moment they turned around, they saw his shadow come up and then he kicked their asses. Same as the alley scene when they were about to take off his mask. He's always playing dead....so he can come back to life and be more intimidating.

His defeating that goon served the same purpose. He let the guy tire himself out and throw a few punches at him, relying on armor to protect him. And guess what? IT WORKED. The guy threw him off the ledge and the next moment, two legs come up to grab him and toss him off. That's just the way he's portrayed. You hit him and just when you think he's done for, he comes back to haunt you.

and dude...I CAN BEAT UP the Joker. Batman not showing how hurt he was when he was beating up Joker means nothing. It just means Joker can't fight for sh*t...why else would he needs thugs protecting him? And when Joker did punch him, he just stood there and let his armor do the work. That's the essence of the what scares the sh*t out of criminals..the fact that Batman is this fearful presence that just can't be killed.

Man, that is bullshit. Batman didnt let that goon to gave him some punches, he WAS LOOSING THE FIGHT. He didnt any martial arts movement, what a joke. Keaton batman was only a boogeyman,as you said, but batman is supposed to be a combination of a boogeyman in a bat costume and a martial arts artist, and that wasnt in the movie. Keaton was a poor fighter and he only did beat that goon with luck and tricks. Nothing more.

And i dont care if the joker cant fight, if batman would be so hurted as some people try to say, he would be hurted fighting any person, even the joker. I dont remember any pain in his face when he was fighting the joker.

Ok..I guess you totally forgot bout the whole alley scene when he threw some of the most memorable martial arts skills that is always played in the trailers and commercials. Naw...that didn't happen AT ALL.

And guess what? That's what Batman is. Half of the time he's CHEATING...because that's how he functions. Tricks and all that...that's what makes Batman so awesome, because he doenst' have to go into boxing matches with anyone short of Bane.

Batman wasn't really fighting Joker. They exchanged a few blows and like i said, it doesnt' take much to kick Joker's ass.

So what did you want Batman to do when JOker was "fighting" him? Grunt and rub his stomach with a tear swelling in his right eye? 🙄 Then unleash some Matrixy Kungfu on that clown's ass? That was the finale and I'm sorry it wasn't a slugfest like you wanted it to be.

Don't get worked up because I have a different perspective (i mean "bullsh*t"😉 than you. I'm sure Mr Parker would flock to your protection any minute now. 😎 Probably with the lines: "Well said, Bakerboy"

Hahaha. Good one. So, the scene in the alley is one of the most memorable moments of martial arts skills? Man, surely you dont have seen any martial arts movie. Because those martial arts from keaton were slow as hell and pathetic as much.

Go and read more batman comics. Batman is a combination of gadgets , intelligence and martial arts. The first one was in the movie, the second and third one were pathetic showed.

Mmmmm, he wasnt figthing the joker. So, the great batman of keaton punched the joker three or four times with all his rage and fury , the powerful batman of keaton, and even that wasnt enought to beat the crap of the old and poor joker, who throwed batman and vicky out of the cathedral roof.

The last part of your post is only nonsense and garbage. I post my opinion and my point of view, i dont search for any lines back me up. That is totally absurd.

Yea....too bad your response to any other people's opinion is "THAT'S BULLSHIT" Good debating skills, top notch. 🤘

And now you're seriously just digging for details. What I'm saying is in that alley scene, he demonstrated martial arts skill that people REMEMBER in a Batman movie. Yes, with all the knives, the kicks, and the music theme in the background. That, my friend is what constitutes memorable. If I you wanted Iron Monkey or Once Upon a Time in China or Fists of Fury, check your calendar and remember this was 1989....before the advent of Matrix telling Hollywood they needed to beef up on their kungfu choreagraphy. The only other scene I can remember where Bats was this good was in BF when he did the spread-eagled kick to those goons faces.

As for Bats punching Joker....YES, he punched him off the roof. What's your point? IT WASN'T a slugfest. And did you simply give up on your bewilderment that he showed no pain when Joker punched him?

Originally posted by bakerboy
The last part of your post is only nonsense and garbage. I post my opinion and my point of view, i dont search for any lines back me up. That is totally absurd.

BUT...YOU KNOW it will happen. That's why it's so amusing 😆

Dude, you are mixing the things. If you see many movies from 1989 or before, there are many fight scenes better than that scene from the alley. In that scene, keaton showed poor fighting skills. Not as batman is supposed to be.

Kilmer was a way better fighter, and bale, off course. Compare their fighting scenes with keaton's.

My point is that if batman would be so hurted by the plane crash as you are trying to say, he wouldnt be able to fight any man or woman. He wasnt that hurted, that is an excuse. He was in enough condition to fight, but he showed poor fighting skills. Its very clear.

Batman rocks, Batman returns rocks, Batman Begins rocks slightly, and i mean slightly more...at times i like the new version and at times i like the old...B89 and BR had some of the most kick ass villians in movie history...that is one reason why i like those better sometimes...BB had some cool villians, but they were not as entertaining to me...BB had the better story line...

I loved Batman Begins...don't get me wrong. But I think most people would agree the fighting scenes in which Bale was Batman (not talking about when he was in training) weren't that great. EVEN if he was doing something good, it wasn't depicted that clearly in the movie. As for Kilmer in BF, I think he did a decent job with the fighting...like I said, I remember the spread-eaged kick quite well. The next kick where he just kicks the guy who was flashing his hands was a straight copy of what Keaton did in 89 with that Asian thug with the knives.

And MY point is that even though Batman's very hurt by the crash, Joker is still no martial arts thug. Therefore, Bats WOULDN'T need to feel pain (protected by armor) or be intimidated or have to come up with fancy tricks (like he did with the big goon). He just decks him, false teeth went flying, and then walks menacingly towards Joker. In fact, he overestimated Joker because the moment he punched Joker off the roof, he thought it was over but Joker came up to grab him.

Anyways, those are my 2 cents. At least I hope we agree the fighting in B&R doesn't even need mentioning...

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Again, Christian Bale's height as Bruce Wayne is 6' (1.83 m). http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000288/bio . Micheal Keatons height as Bruce was 5' 10" (1.78 m) . http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000474/bio

So plane-crashing dead on into a cathedral and surviving, getting out and then climbing up 50 or more flights to face a well rested muscle-headed goon is a poor and invalid excuse for Batman getting hit a few times even though Batman defeated the guy? lol

Wake up and smell the Foldgers.

And hey, I may need glasses to you, which I don't, but at least my spelling is "sharpe",

like me.. 😎

Even if he is 5'10,thats just average at best for a male.For a character like Batman that is ideed a short runt. Yes that is an extremely poor excuse that the apologists such as yourself like to cling to because he was hardly seriously injured.YOU need to wake up and smell the folgers and stop apogizing for the shortcomings and failures of this film.He was walking at a very rapid pace once he got to the cathredral and he could have easily have taken out that goon with one karate punch so yes that is indeed a poor and flimsy excuse.in your OWN words,wake up and smell the folger.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
How can I refuse to see short comings and failures that aren't there.

You know what, I'll have to re-watch Batman '89 in order to see what you somehow and apparently see that no one I know, including "true" Batman fans don't see at all. I'm not saying your perspectives aren't in the film, just wanna see if they really are in there for myself. But since i haven't seen it in like a year, i wont elaborate much in this discussion because, like i said i wanna re-watch the film again due to the fact that i'm not closed minded even though you said im in denial which your wrong in, of course, but I digress.

You said Keaton as Batman was pudgy which basically means you're calling him short and fat, literally. Look it up. Keaton was in no way short and fat. Christian Bale as height Bruce Wayne is 6' (1.83 m). http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000288/bio . Micheal Keatons height as Bruce was 5' 10" (1.78 m) . http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000474/bio
Are you telling me that Keaton being shorter than Bale as Bruce Wayne, by only a mere 2 inches makes Keaton short pudgy and "horribly cast" as you said on a previous post, as Batman? And did you ever even considered the fact that Vikki Vale was probably as tall as Keaton/Wayne was because of the high stiletto heels she always had on?

Ok. Keatons Batman killed no one in cowardly ways when he drove the unmanned batmobile into the jokers warehouse. He was destroying an immanent terrorist threat. The building along with any other threats, but the building mostly. Batman is a detective and detectives are similar to cops kinda. And sometimes cops kill thugs for good reasons, one of them is imminent threat. Are those cops cowardly for killing thugs that almost kill them. If your answers yes than your in the minority buddy. Just like your in the minority in saying Batman '89 sucked. But to each his own right?

So Batman is, in your words, "a cowardly killer" because he put a bomb in the pants of that one goon that tried to kill him. What would you have done? Say "stoppit!" lol or "shoo" maybe. To me, Batman would've been a coward if he didn't do what he did. And thats beside the fact that Batman was pissed off out of his mind already. He about had it with the Penguin and goons at that point. ANd I don't recall Batman carrying a gun and killing people as you said.

Ah the biggest Batman '89 misconception: Batman killed the Joker. Batman did not kill the Joker. Batman merely attached his batarang around the Jokers ankle with the intention of not allowing him to escape or capturing him, not murder him as you so falsely believe. And obviously and with reason, given the moment, Batman, like anyone else, didn't take into account how much the Joker's fat arse weighed and/or how strong the statue was. But to say Batman intentionally killed the Joker would be incorrect. Why do you think Batman kept a shocked glare down at the Joker as he fell. It was as if Batman couldn't believe the Joker fell.

I think you need trifocals more than i need the glasses because I dont think you clearly saw in Batman '89 when the Batjet crashed into the church head on. You try telling me how you feel after a plane crash. Then after you tell me how you feel, climb 50 or more stories and fight a well rested bulky goon that wants you tears you to shreds, but remember you have to beat him, just like Batman did. Then tell me, ok.

And your Cloony remark about him being ugly, id have to say nothing about it. I dont know what an ugly guy looks, I'm hetro. And didn't people mag vote him like the sexiest guy alive a couple of years ago? I thought girls went nuts over Clooney..

Im saying he is pudgy because you can clearly see he has a pudgy belly sticking out from under that shirt and he clearly had a receding hairline back then and was half bald which =horrible miscasting.

Yes he was totally being a coward about that your just in denial on that.His life was never in danger and killing those goons was completely cowardly of him,you need to stop living in denial on that.Batman is NOT authorized by the police dude to go around and kill criminals,he should have been wanted for murder for that.When cops do the kind of thing like batman did,thats considered breaking the law,there are crooked cops out there you know. 🙄 Batman could have if he wanted to,capture those goons without killing them,he has all kinds of ways he could do that with his resources he has available.I am talking about the comics when batman carried a gun and shot and killed people but even back then he only did it when there was no other way out and he had no other choice,not the cowardly ways burton had him do it.Again it was not neccessary for him to put that bomb in the penguins goons pants so that was extremely cowardly of him.batman isnt authorized by the police to kill people,this isnt a punisher movie where that would have been appropriate,wake up and smell the folgers.

Yes Batman should have been wanted for murder at the end for the joker,regardless of the jokers past actions,batman is no better a person than those criminals or the joker if he kills them.You go out and kill a known criminal in front of cops that are wanting to capture a criminal,guess what? Ill see you in jail.Batman would have gone to jail as well,horrible screenwriting and not at all believeable. Begins WAS believeable because other than Gordon,the police wanted to track Batman down and capture him.Thats why Begins unlike Burtons Batman movies,had realisem in it.

The people who run people magazine are idiots they have made some horrible choices like that several times in the past so that wasnt surprising to me when they said that about clooney.

OMG some peeps are taking this way to seriously,please out of curiosity how long does it take to write essay answers?????i doubt anyone reads them
now for my opinion B89 and BR rocked bigtime,it showed a dark and gothic side to batman,and you say he killed joker and penguin right,well i dont think he killed them,he just didnt save them.which is what he did to ra's in BB so dont say batman never killed anyone in BB

Are you kidding???

The early Batman was more of a coward, if we go by your way of thinking.

He could have easily brought the Red Hood alive, But all he did was killed the RED HOOD in his sleep. Batman's life was not in danger, and the Red Hood was as helpless as one could get, being a sleep and all.

come on, Bats89 is the better movie, and I have giving up trying to make you see the light.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Are you insinuating that "true" Batman fans are not true if they like Batman '89. If so you, you're just being comical now.

So, to you, Vikki Vale was the ONLY thing that made the first film worth sitting through? Why, cause she was cute? Not very subtle, are you.

I've been using my "Batman Forever" DVD case with Dvd in it, as a doorstop, ever since the first and last time seeing the film. "Forever" sucked so hard, lol.

You must be crazier than the Joker if you think anything Batman is filled with non-stop action from beginning to end. You made it sound like that when you wrote " a lot more action in it like a batman movie SHOULD have."..Any story with too much action and little depth is doomed to fail.

yeah and its comical that people like you can call yourself a true fan to accept those crappy burton batman fans that so much betrayed the comicbook.yes kim basinger is the only thing that makes that movie worth sitting through because batman 89 like all the burton/schumacher movies were horribly miscast.Keaton as batman,Jack nicholson as the joker.He was a great joker but thats not the build that the joker has.Ceasar romero is the true joker brought to life from the comicbooks.Thats just it though Batman begins did NOT have too much action and little depth,thats why it was a great movie and thats why forever is better than the first two because it wasnt extremely boring like the first two films.sorry but a batman movie where they are just standing around the first hour in a half with little action in it=crappy batman movie which is what the first two films are.btw,bakerboy is right,the people that listed keatons height at that site totally got it wrong because as bakerboy said so well,in all of keatons other movies,he is standing next to actors who aer very short actors such as Henry winkler,melanie griffith,winkler and griffith are only like 5'6" inches tall and so is jack nicholson.In batman 89 it shows keaton standing next to nicholson and not only is he not taller than nicholson he is no taller than melanie griffith and henry winkler in the films he is in with them,the pics clearly show him at the same height as they are,proof that he is a short runt. 🙄 those statistics obviously measured him with high heels on wehn they took the measurements of his height because keaton is clearly not 5'10" in his movies.as bakerboy said so well,put bale next to people like aleck baldwin and denzel washington,guys that stand 6'2" and he will compare favorably as the same height as them where keaton compares favorably well as the same heights as people such as nicholson and henry winkler,men who are known for sure to only be 5'6" so that 5'10'' measurement of keaton is false.as I said,maybe in real high heels he is but not in normal shoes.normal shoes he is only 5'6" obviously.

Originally posted by Joker1237
Are you kidding???

The early Batman was more of a coward, if we go by your way of thinking.

He could have easily brought the Red Hood alive, But all he did was killed the RED HOOD in his sleep. Batman's life was not in danger, and the Red Hood was as helpless as one could get, being a sleep and all.

come on, Bats89 is the better movie, and I have giving up trying to make you see the light.

thats because its YOU who refuse to see the light. 🙄 as I just proved batman is not a short runt who is half bald and out of shape with a receding hairline like keaton.not only is batman 89 crap its worse than batman forever,kilmer at least looked the role of bruce wayne. 🙄 lets see proof that he killed whats his name in his sleep,even if you have that proof,just because it happened in the comics doesnt mean it should happen in the movie because thats not believeable screenwriting for batman to not be wanted for murder at the end for thje joker,thats horrible screenwriting. 🙄 thats why begins is far superiour because it had realisem in it because even though batman did not kill anybody,he was still wanted by the police and they tried to capture him.when that police commissioner said-I want him,nobody takes the law into thier own hands.Not in my town.that was realisem because in real life,nobody is allowed to take the law into their own hands.batman begins =realisem batman 89=no realisem and horrible screenplay.you like others,just choose to live in denial on that though. 😛

Originally posted by SpyCspider
Yea....too bad your response to any other people's opinion is "THAT'S BULLSHIT" Good debating skills, top notch. 🤘

And now you're seriously just digging for details. What I'm saying is in that alley scene, he demonstrated martial arts skill that people REMEMBER in a Batman movie. Yes, with all the knives, the kicks, and the music theme in the background. That, my friend is what constitutes memorable. If I you wanted Iron Monkey or Once Upon a Time in China or Fists of Fury, check your calendar and remember this was 1989....before the advent of Matrix telling Hollywood they needed to beef up on their kungfu choreagraphy. The only other scene I can remember where Bats was this good was in BF when he did the spread-eagled kick to those goons faces.

As for Bats punching Joker....YES, he punched him off the roof. What's your point? IT WASN'T a slugfest. And did you simply give up on your bewilderment that he showed no pain when Joker punched him?

Maybe he said that because what you said is total bullshit.It was clear to anybody that has logic and common sense that batman was clearly loosing that fight and getting the crap beat out of him,your just grasping at straws coming up with that wild insane theory because you dont want to admit the truth that he was a wimp that could have easily have beaten that goon with no problems whatsoever if he really wanted to.The batman from the comics easily could have done that. 🙄 your logic is as laughable as jokers and that other guys is.stick with that other laughable argument that the reason he got beat up so bad by him was he just crashed the plane,either way both theory's are grasping at straws because batman was not anywhere near as hurt as you all make him out to.the way you all make him out to be is he had 2 broken arms,a broken leg and was crawling at snails pace up the stairs,now in THAT instance you would have a good argument that he got beat up so badly because of the plane crash.But the worst that happened to him was he just had minor scars on the cheek and a few bruises,that is very crystal clear in the movie that he is hardly seriously wounded the way you all like to make him out to be. 😆 😆

Red Hood vs Batman, Batman kills Red Hood in his sleep,

Detectvie comics no 32, Octber 1939.

Proof.

The guy was a sleep, and Batman opens fire on the Red Hood and his mistress. I mean you complain about Burton;s Batman killing, but the early Batman was more of a cold blooded killer.

oh yeah, I HAVE THAT COMIC.

And a remake of the comic. and no I dont have a scanner

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Maybe he said that because what you said is total bullshit.It was clear to anybody that has logic and common sense that batman was clearly loosing that fight and getting the crap beat out of him,your just grasping at straws coming up with that wild insane theory because you dont want to admit the truth that he was a wimp that could have easily have beaten that goon with no problems whatsoever if he really wanted to.The batman from the comics easily could have done that. 🙄 your logic is as laughable as jokers and that other guys is.stick with that other laughable argument that the reason he got beat up so bad by him was he just crashed the plane,either way both theory's are grasping at straws because batman was not anywhere near as hurt as you all make him out to.the way you all make him out to be is he had 2 broken arms,a broken leg and was crawling at snails pace up the stairs,now in THAT instance you would have a good argument that he got beat up so badly because of the plane crash.But the worst that happened to him was he just had minor scars on the cheek and a few bruises,that is very crystal clear in the movie that he is hardly seriously wounded the way you all like to make him out to be. 😆 😆

first of all...how old are you Mr. Parker? Learn how to type English properly...you know, with punctuations so nobody will have to read your run-on essays about the same repeated thing over and over again. And ease up with the "roll-eyes" smilies...they don't help your argument much.

As for whether Batman was hurt or not, READ MY EXPLANATIONS, genius. I said Batman was a boogieman who CHEATS and uses deception in order to win. Even if he was hurt and the guy seemed to have the upper hand, he found a way to defeat him through TACTICS. In 89, he almost always lets the bad guys think they've beaten him. They shot at him in the very beginning. They shot at him in the alley. He bounces back and serves a can of whupass before they realize what was going on. That's what freaks them out...this haunting boogieman image.

DON'T WEEP, however; I enjoyed what Kilmer did as well in BF with the fighting scenes. So there, happy now?

Unlike your debates, I can actually understand and respect Bakerboy 's. I'm surprised you didn't say "well said, Bakerboy" however. That would've made MY DAY. 😎

As Wolverine said to Spidey in Marvel Knights: "man up Parker, it's just a scratch..."
Over and out.