Researching the "Rape Culture" of America...
After reading this article...
http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html
I found myself extremely angry... this woman claiming that Rape was part and parcel of males being sexually aggressive... to be branded in such a way didnt exactly feel great...
I want to know what other guys on KMC think of all this (and i do not want it to turn into some debate on whose fault rape is or anything like that)...
ladies are welcome to post too of course... 🙂
i DONT agree with this chick at all
Alot of information to digest here.. but the long & short of it is that the numbers dont f*cking matter..
Add to the mix that I am a rape victim myself and the fact that I do personally know of at least one instance where someone close to me was falsely accused of rape.. so I have had a bit of experience with all aspects of this...
Basically numbers dont mean jack shit... All these 'intellectuals' are doing nothing more than trying to get publicity either by doing their own 'research' or trying to knock the piss out of the other guys numbers.. Bottom line is you can 'study the numbers' and argue over the idiotic things like ' differentiating between a broom handle and a finger' til the cows come home .. Fact is RAPE HAPPENS.. whether its one in a million or 582,000 in a million.. it happens so lets just get past the bullshit & deal with the actual issue itself, not whose numbers are the best and why or why not..
The only reason that I have ever found for statistics to be useful is if you are trying to set priorities.. like illness for example.. x number of people die from cancer, x number from bee stings.. THAT can be useful just too see where money should be spent for the greater good.. but rape is rape is rape.. there are no degrees.. if you have been violated you have been violated so the numbers are useless.. what needs to be addressed is what can be done to help decrease rape across the board, speaking for society as a whole.. to me this includes both the attackers reasons for purpotrating the crime and in cases of date rape.. deal with the issue of low self esteem in girls & women so that they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that THEY call the shots (sorry guys but we have to, its just to risky not to - i know there are girls are there that tease and do the whole regret it the next day thing but better to leave a guy with a hard on than to have a rape victim on your hands)
I dont feel betrayed by this report as a woman or as a rape victim, I feel disgusted that the people who are supposed to be the experts in areas of importance such as this cant get past being publicity whores and petty bickering to address the actual issue.
I'm sorry, Bilb, but I think it is very hasty to dismiss numbers as an irrelevant issue. Any programme that tries to deal with the problem needs accurate data to work omn. As the article explains, inaccurate data simply causes resources to go to the wrong place, and so the risk to vulnerable people is not reduced when it could be, and that is wrong by any definition.
I am afraid it is very likely that whatever the scale of rape in any western society, the issue cannot begin to be properly addressed until its scale is properly known.
Right now the problem isn't even properly defined yet. You can't know it until it is defined, and that is why seemingly petty issues about broom handles are actually quite important.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'm sorry, Bilb, but I think it is very hasty to dismiss numbers as an irrelevant issue. Any programme that tries to deal with the problem needs accurate data to work omn. As the article explains, inaccurate data simply causes resources to go to the wrong place, and so the risk to vulnerable people is not reduced when it could be, and that is wrong by any definition.I am afraid it is very likely that whatever the scale of rape in any western society, the issue cannot begin to be properly addressed until its scale is properly known.
Right now the problem isn't even properly defined yet. You can't know it until it is defined, and that is why seemingly petty issues about broom handles are actually quite important.
did you even read what i wrote?
The only reason that I have ever found for statistics to be useful is if you are trying to set priorities.. like illness for example.. x number of people die from cancer, x number from bee stings.. THAT can be useful just too see where money should be spent for the greater good.
erm.. hello?
and properly defined? do i REALLY have to explain what RAPE is?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, but what does that have to do with what I said?I'm very sorry for that but that does not change that outlined fact- that the very differing definitions of what rape actually is, is one of the largest problems in this area.
hmm must be nice to be able to divorce oneself from the emotional aspects of the crime.. talk to me after its been done to you mmm kay?
That is simply emotional nonsense. That kind of statement does not alter the facts one whit.
Like I say, try reading the article again carefully and you will seewhere the problem exists. Simply ranting at me won't help you at all. I've done you no wrong, I am simply referring you to the reported problem.
I'll admit I haven't read the article yet. I will - just don't have time right now. But imo, the key to addressing issues such as rape isn't just to look at male sexual behaviours and say it's the result of an intrinsic male aggression. You have to look at behaviours and attitudes fostered by society as a whole. In some socially conservative societies and communities, archaic views of gender roles can produce female attitudes of low self-worth and improper male attitudes and lack of respect towards women.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That is simply emotional nonsense. That kind of statement does not alter the facts one whit.
yeah it felt like nonsense at the time.. still does thanks 🙄
But this Thread really is not aboot the Emotional Aspect of Rape ....
I already said her logic, methods, rationale & conclusions were screwed up.. what more do you want? 😖
Originally posted by bilb
yeah it felt like nonsense at the time.. still does thanks 🙄I already said her logic, methods, rationale & conclusions were screwed up.. what more do you want? 😖
Well but you are not talking aboot the Issue pr adressed but aboot Rape in General...which is a whole different topic
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'll admit I haven't read the article yet. I will - just don't have time right now. But imo, the key to addressing issues such as rape isn't just to look at male sexual behaviours and say it's the result of an intrinsic male aggression. You have to look at behaviours and attitudes fostered by society as a whole. In some socially conservative societies and communities, archaic views of gender roles can produce female attitudes of low self-worth and improper male attitudes and lack of respect towards women.
yup and I fail to see how statistics are gonna help with that
See, again, Bilb, that's just you throwing an emotional insult at me that is without any value or relevance.
The fact is this. Due to vastly differing definitions of what rape is, from fingers to broomhandles and so forth, the possible accuracy of figures is being vastly distorted and is one of the root cuses of the misallocation of resources outlined above.
You say these issues are unimportant- that is because you are failing to spot the link between the definition of rape, and getting help to the right places. But the link is there, and I think the article outlines that rather well. So these issues ARE important if the right people are to get the help they need.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well but you are not talking aboot the Issue pr adressed but aboot Rape in General...which is a whole different topic
ok my prediction right now.. girls on one side, boys on the other..
fact is girls (the MAJORITY of rape victims) cant & shouldnt have to seperate the physical act from the emotional ramifications.. they are a package deal unfortunately