Researching the "Rape Culture" of America...

Bilb, no-one is even talking about seperating that other than you. You are making up in your head what the argument is.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Have you read the article? It's really long.

Hell yes.....I didn't...I am still in the second paragraph deciding if I want to go on....but I read PRs post...and he is not adressing a Topic called "Rape" but one "Male beings being discriminated against because some of them Raped Women"

Originally posted by Ushgarak
See, again, Bilb, that's just you throwing an emotional insult at me that is without any value or relevance.

The fact is this. Due to vastly differing definitions of what rape is, from fingers to broomhandles and so forth, the possible accuracy of figures is being vastly distorted and is one of the root cuses of the misallocation of resources outlined above.

You say these issues are unimportant- that is because you are failing to spot the link between the definition of rape, and getting help to the right places. But the link is there, and I think the article outlines that rather well. So these issues ARE important if the right people are to get the help they need.

erm when did i personally insult you?

rape = unwanted penetration.. can we agree on THAT? pretty cut & dry i think

Originally posted by bilb
ok my prediction right now.. girls on one side, boys on the other..

fact is girls (the MAJORITY of rape victims) cant & shouldnt have to seperate the physical act from the emotional ramifications.. they are a package deal unfortunately

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Bilb, no-one is even talking about seperating that other than you. You are making up in your head what the argument is.

thank you for that assessment 🙂

Originally posted by Bardock42
No really, I don't want you tro seperate that at all..and I am sure it is horrible...and I have no clue how it could feel ....and probably never will (except I will be imprisoned in a Texas Jail...where ol' Bubba is waiting for me) ...but you have to un derstand it'S aboot a whole different aspect...not the women that are raped (horrible) but men that get generalized (not as horrible but bad too)

i agree .. generalizations about men being rapists ARE horrible.. but that doesnt change th efact that it DOES happen.. all too often i'm afraid

You insulted me when you were making out that my position was one of being callous about the plight of such women.

And I guess I would probably agree with you there, Bilb- but look at the article again. The definition problem there is 'unwanted'. Some definitions are taking it as broadly as any sexual experience that a woman later feels bad about, regardless of how she felt at the time, or any sexual experience had whilst drunk regardless of whether anyone took advantage of that or not.

If these are classified as rapes automatically, you can see how the figures get grossly distorted.

Also, if penetration is taken literally, to be including fingers, you then have a problem of what would be called rape with a woman is 'only' sexual assault with a man, because if a guy is so fondled unwantedly then it is rarely up the backside, and so is never penetrative- but the crime is identical.

Originally posted by bilb
i agree .. generalizations about men being rapists ARE horrible.. but that doesnt change th efact that it DOES happen.. all too often i'm afraid

Yes I agree..and I would gladly participate in a Thread that has that as a topic (if it doesn't involve a *****-ass-long article like this one, of course)....but pr won't be happy with the responses to this one so far I believe....(my fault to , no doubt aboot that)

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You insulted me when you were making out that my position was one of being callous about the plight of such women.

And I guess I would probably agree with you there, Bilb- but look at the article again. The definition problem there is 'unwanted'. Some definitions are taking it as broadly as any sexual experience that a woman later feels bad about, regardless of how she felt at the time, or any sexual experience had whilst drunk regardless of whether anyone took advantage of that or not.

If these are classified as rapes automatically, you can see how the figures get grossly distorted.

Also, if penetration is taking literally, to be including fingers, you then have a problem of what would be called rape with a woman is 'only' sexual assault with a man, because if a guy is so fondled unwantedly then it is rarely up the backside, and so is never penetrative- but the crime is identical.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If a sexual assault on a man involves penetration of some form is that not a rape?

That'S what he is saying...that is too...but not the only......

My point is about fingering. Finger a man, finger a woman- with a woman, that is almost certainly penetrative, with a man, almost certainly not.

Identical crime, but only the woman would have that classed as rape if we use a literal definition of 'rape = penetration'.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You insulted me when you were making out that my position was one of being callous about the plight of such women.

And I guess I would probably agree with you there, Bilb- but look at the article again. The definition problem there is 'unwanted'. Some definitions are taking it as broadly as any sexual experience that a woman later feels bad about, regardless of how she felt at the time, or any sexual experience had whilst drunk regardless of whether anyone took advantage of that or not.

If these are classified as rapes automatically, you can see how the figures get grossly distorted.

Also, if penetration is taken literally, to be including fingers, you then have a problem of what would be called rape with a woman is 'only' sexual assault with a man, because if a guy is so fondled unwantedly then it is rarely up the backside, and so is never penetrative- but the crime is identical.

well you DO seem callous about it.. sorrry but that sth eway you came across & i called you on it..

and yes i totally agree this chicks questions were loaded & skewed to get higher numbers as to who was & was not raped.. she worded the questions badly then exploited her findings..

ok then we expand teh definition to include unwanted penetration and / or touching..

but no matter how flowery you make the definition RAPE IS RAPE.. THATS my point

Originally posted by Ushgarak
My point is about fingering. Finger a man, finger a woman- with a woman, that is almost certainly penetrative, with a man, almost certainly not.

Identical crime, but only the woman would have that classed as rape if we use a literal definition of 'rape = penetration'.

Err, because you finger the 'front end', yeah?

Fingering a man's genitals is equal as a crime as fingering a woman's. But only a man's backside can be penetrated, so by that definition his experience is not rape.

And I was not being callous at all, Bilb- it was only your way of seeing things that made it seem like that.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Err, because you finger the 'front end', yeah?

Fingering a man's genitals is equal as a crime as fingering a woman's. But only a man's backside can be penetrated, so by that definition his experience is not rape.

And I was not being callous at all, Bilb- it was only your way of seeing things that made it seem like that.

yet again, thank you for telling me how I feel 🙂

Darw I say that that is how you came across and I called you on it?

Whoa... my threads never get this kind of response...

firstly, i dont think anyone is trying to cheapen bilb's experience at all... nobody is arguing with you kimmy... hug

except ush... 😛

yes men rape women, but the problem i have is how its been generalised by this nazi woman into saying that its part and parcel of who men are biologically...

No, I am certainly not cheapening Bilb's experience.

And not that it compares, I am sure, but I have been sexually assaulted myself.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, I am certainly not cheapening Bilb's experience.

And not that it compares, I am sure, but I have been sexually assaulted myself.

Another good point... women arent the only ones affected...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Darw I say that that is how you came across and I called you on it?

if it makes you feel better sure go ahead 🙂

and Ok paul.. we'll change tactics a bit here:

if rape werent prevalant there would be no reason for the perception of men as potential attackers .. right?