Death Penalty

Originally posted by Mr Zero
The whole "death penalty" issue always seems to fall apart - because when discussing this issue it revolves around what to do with the worst dregs of humanity to ensure they don't prey on the rest of us.

Where the rational argument fails is because some (or most) people supporting the idea of a death penalty invariably end up making these ridiculous "cause them as much pain as possible - the scum deserve it" comments - not caring that they are saying "its ok to break the laws of the land to punish people who break the laws of the land..."

Add to that the fact that I am often having this discussion with Americans who live in a country that has different laws on this kind of thing depending on where you are standing in the country when you commit the crime... how ****ing stupid is that?

As a society we need to make far more of a distinction between who deserves to be in jail and who doesn't - and what a "life sentence" is. In my view execution belongs in the dark ages - and a desire for revenge rather than a workable and humane justice system that shows we have progressed as a society is something to aim at.

It is every American who's had a family member killed god-given right to want revenge. I hate it when People who make claims like "well your only doing to them what they did to an INNOCENT person" key word = INNOCENT, here I will say it slower, i.......n...........n........o........c.........e........n........t. Now when there is concrete evidence that a person murderd, killed, mutliated an INNOCENT human person they deserve to die in some cases. Not have their ass filled with food coming out of MY taxes. Hey what I do not get is that many people hate teh death penalty, yet love the movies like "The Punisher" where a man takes justice for his whole family being killed. COme back and talk when a loved one has been killed by someone, then lets see those opinions.

Revenge?

Whate centry do you live in? Because the rest of us are in 21st.

As The Omega already said, death penalty has no place in modern society!

Ok then phnney6, then by your deffinition, then the family member of a murdered person on death row has a ''god given right'' to go kill the person who killed the person on death row...
Because at that point, the person who pulled the switch on the other person is NOT innocent anymore.

Originally posted by phinney6
Hey what I do not get is that many people hate teh death penalty, yet love the movies like "The Punisher" where a man takes justice for his whole family being killed. COme back and talk when a loved one has been killed by someone, then lets see those opinions.

I also love The Matrix, but I don't REALLY think we live in a virtual world controlled by machines...
Duh!

I support revenge. Have a family member of the victim execute the criminal. There, an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth, AND this ensures that the criminal will never kill/rape/whatever again.

Yea, I loved The Punisher, so what? I supported this before I even read the comic books.

Originally posted by phinney6
Hey what I do not get is that many people hate teh death penalty, yet love the movies like "The Punisher" where a man takes justice for his whole family being killed. COme back and talk when a loved one has been killed by someone, then lets see those opinions.

I personally love movies like Dirty Harry. A cop executes a derange killer without any trial or judicial system. Besides, cops are suppose to stop a crime from happening....so it flips the bill for me.

Originally posted by phinney6
It is every American who's had a family member killed god-given right to want revenge.

You do understand the difference between wanting revenge and having a right to revenge tho - don't you?

I'm curious how someone who is a libertarian can advocate government sponsored execution. Isn't that a contradiction?

Funny how the mentality is:

"You committed the atrocious act of murder. So in return we will murder you with the same atrocious act that we are killing you for. Coz you deserve that."

Someone said to me "Yeah if someone murdered your family or someone you love you'd want em dead too."

I dunno about you but if someone murdered my family, lethal injection or something would be TOO good. I'd rather have them rot away inside a prison. Their lives passing day by day while they know they are gonna die in there. That would be much more gratifying than them being dead in seconds.

In most cases the electric chair is far more a barbaric act than the act committed by the criminal anyway. What kind of sick freak thought "Hmm, we'll deal with all those bad people by electrocuting them to death."

Man I hate humans.

-AC

Originally posted by Mr Zero
You do understand the difference between wanting revenge and having a right to revenge tho - don't you?

I'm curious how someone who is a libertarian can advocate government sponsored execution. Isn't that a contradiction?

OMG that just shows how uninformed you are about libertarians, we go against things that TAKE AWAY the rights of INNOCENT humans, not all government, and plus many really are gonna want to rid the earth of the scum of some murderer. How can people defend a murderer? Honestly, how can people do it??? I don't by this whole "well your murdering him" no we aren't. Murder is the killing of innocent humans with no reason what so ever. Hienous Killers do not deserve to live. If someone punched your friend, would you punch him back? If someone held a gun to your head, to kill you, and you had a gun, would you pull the trigger or would you put your gun down, and pull out cigerettes and try to "change him" ridiculous. To bad you might have that option, the people murdered do not! Its a firiggen innocent good life taken away, murders lose all innocence and reason to live after taking away someone else's reason. CAN YOU GRASP THE IDEA OF AN INNOCENT LIFE BEING TAKEN AWAY? What if that life was your brother, sister, cousin, dad, mom, wife, girlfriend, best friend? Rot away in prison, seriously do you know how the prison works? 3 meals a day, outside stuff, activites? jeez

"CAN YOU GRASP THE IDEA OF AN INNOCENT LIFE BEING TAKEN AWAY?"

In the grand scheme of things, it's a life taken either way. Murder as punishment for murder. There's no excuse for it. Simple as.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"CAN YOU GRASP THE IDEA OF AN INNOCENT LIFE BEING TAKEN AWAY?"

In the grand scheme of things, it's a life taken either way. Murder as punishment for murder. There's no excuse for it. Simple as.

-AC

A god*amn life that deserves to get his ass fried, Treat others as you want to be treated, well I guess we know how he wants to be treated. im still not buying the whole "Your murdering them" they deserve it, which means.........Not murder. why can't people get tough. When a guy kills your family, you can say there's no escuse for him to be killed. But again, American does what the general population wants, not what the government wants, i guess we get some more freedom.

"If we execute murderers and there is in fact no deterrent effect, we have killed a bunch of murderers. If we fail to execute murderers, and doing so would in fact have deterred other murders, we have allowed the killing of a bunch of innocent victims. I would much rather risk the former. This, to me, is not a tough call."

"A god*amn life that deserves to get his ass fried, Treat others as you want to be treated, well I guess we know how he wants to be treated"

So you think it's ok to kill a murderer becuause he murdered? He deserves to get his ass fried? Maybe he woke up and thought "That guy walking down the street deserves to get himself stabbed." Wouldn't make it right would it? No. But just because he does, doesn't mean the people in power should be hypocritical bastards and murder back.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"A god*amn life that deserves to get his ass fried, Treat others as you want to be treated, well I guess we know how he wants to be treated"

So you think it's ok to kill a murderer becuause he murdered? He deserves to get his ass fried? Maybe he woke up and thought "That guy walking down the street deserves to get himself stabbed." Wouldn't make it right would it? No. But just because he does, doesn't mean the people in power should be hypocritical bastards and murder back.

-AC

Yes I thinks its ok to kill a murderer, he didn't give taht choice to his victim, and personallly i like the idea of ridding the world of scum that doesn't serve any great purpose in life except for bad things. Its like putting down a dog with rabis or a dog that is really mean and attacks a young girl, except this is a person capable of murdering someone, so yes I AM PROUD TO SAY I SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY. hypocrits? please, its strict justice, you kill someone, well we are gonna kill you, because well, your scum and serve no prupose in life. so yeah I like the idea of killing a murderer. But of course I guess saddamn should be sent in jail? I mean all he did was murder mass amounts of people, he can still be "changed for the better". 🙄 oh and by the way here is my reply to this comment

"Maybe he woke up and thought "That guy walking down the street deserves to get himself stabbed." Wouldn't make it right would it?"

exactly my point, im not defending the murders, read my posts, your defending the murders. Your right its not fair, not fair to the families of the victim to have the MURDERER live but not the innocent person.

i can see your point, but is it not better to let the bastard rot in jail for the rest of his life than execute him, psychological damage is alot worse than physical? put the murderer in a cell and let him rot, anyone who takes a human life should have theirs taken in the way of taking all their freedom away, is better than executing them.

"Yes I thinks its ok to kill a murderer, he didn't give taht choice to his victim, and personallly i like the idea of ridding the world of scum that doesn't serve any great purpose in life except for bad things."

I'm not saying murder is right. Yes they deserve to be punished but it's hypocritical and wrong to say "Right you, you committed murder which is SO wrong. So erm....we're murdering you." It's like a kid throws a stone and it hits another kid in the face in the schoolyard. It's better for that kid to go and tell someone so that the other kid misses his lunch break or gets detention rather than throw it back and do the same thing. You are letting emotion overcome logic and common sense.

"Its like putting down a dog with rabis or a dog that is really mean and attacks a young girl"

Do you put down people with AIDS? No. Sit down. Dogs aren't mean for attacking girls. Sharks aren't mean for attacking people. People attack people all the time. It's life. As long as there's free will in all sentient beings there will be conflict.

"hypocrits? please, its strict justice, you kill someone, well we are gonna kill you, because well, your scum and serve no prupose in life."

So you don't think it's hypocritical to murder someone because you believe murder to be evil? If this is the case then you are an idiot. I don't mean that in an overly offensive way, it's just fact should that be the case.

"exactly my point, im not defending the murders, read my posts, your defending the murders. Your right its not fair, not fair to the families of the victim to have the MURDERER live but not the innocent person."

I'm not defending the murders or the murderers. I'm just saying that the death penalty is dumb. Because....like...it is:

"We think Murder is wrong. So whoever does it will be murdered."

Yeah, real justice in action there buddy.

-AC

Originally posted by pr1983
i can see your point, but is it not better to let the bastard rot in jail for the rest of his life than execute him, psychological damage is alot worse than physical? put the murderer in a cell and let him rot, anyone who takes a human life should have theirs taken in the way of taking all their freedom away, is better than executing them.

So taking their life is okay as long as they still breath? How can emotional pain be worse than death? It would be torturous yes,but how could it compare to eigther complete nothingness, or eternity i hell?

I cannot see the difference. If murderes or lifers in prison were actually sentenced to solitary confinments for their life sentence, then i would not care. If this were the case i seriously woudnt care if they were executed or put away in solitary. However it takes a life long rap sheet of hanus acts and then nearly unimaginable acts for a prisoner to be sentenced to solitary confinment. Many live long fruitfull lives with freedoms.

I defenantly believe the death penalty is justified. I do believe there should be more strict guidelines to introducing the death penalty. Some times a man can murder an entire family and rape babies, and yet still be back out on the street in a few years, but someone may have kileld another person in a fit of rage, and he gets the chair.

Bah, I tire of the whole "you say it's wrong for a murderer to murder people, but it's okay for someone to murder the murderer". Can you not see a huge, fundamental difference between killing an innocent person and killing a murderer? In case you can't, here you go, the murderer has it coming. I'll be damned if I'm going to cry over some piece of trash killer getting what's coming to him.

That being said, if there was a way to insure that you could keep a murderer in prison without any possibility of escape, I would be for that over the death penalty. However, there is no other way to insure that they won't kill again other then killing them, so let em have it. Who cares? They're scum. If they don't want to be killed, don't kill innocent people out on the street. Wow.

What if the person is innocent, set up, framed tho? I was watching a program a week or so ago, and this woman had been in prison for 17 years, her husband had been executed already. She over heard the guards talking about who actually did the killing, she then told her lawyer and they even found documents that the cops had, that they never turned over that implicated who did it. She was let out after 17 yrs, but she too could have been executed.

there are so many heinous crimes comitted, and yes, some criminals deserve death, but that is not up to the government to play god, if the justice system was used properly life would mean life, and they would be punishedproperly. the death penalty is fundamentally wrong, because not everyone is guilty as fiery eyes says?

"Some times a man can murder an entire family and rape babies, and yet still be back out on the street in a few years, but someone may have kileld another person in a fit of rage, and he gets the chair."

That's the sucky justice system. Justice needs to be improved but that doesn't mean the death penalty.

"In case you can't, here you go, the murderer has it coming. I'll be damned if I'm going to cry over some piece of trash killer getting what's coming to him."

I'm not either. But then let someone else deal with that. It's hypocritical to make MURDER illegal and then commit it, for whatever reason. It is a barbaric and needless sentance. Murder is lame but my point is, don't condemn it then commit it. Justifiable homicide is self defence, you're not defending anyone potentially by giving a guy the chair. He could be innocent. Even if he is guilty, I'd rather see them rot away in jail. The only reason the don't is coz the justice system sucks. That doesn't mean we can keep wiping out lives just because we're scared that they'll get a good lawyer and get out.

"However, there is no other way to insure that they won't kill again other then killing them, so let em have it. Who cares? They're scum. If they don't want to be killed, don't kill innocent people out on the street. Wow."

So, a man who has motive for murder (not justifying it) kills a man. So the government, with no motive for murder other than trying to cover up how shit their justice system is, kills him.

Do you not see the wrong here? I'm not condoning murder, it IS bad. However, if you believe murder is bad then you believe it for everyone. Getting what's coming to you and forcefully bringing it on are two different things.

-AC