Mr. Zero> Ah, yes. Castrating someone is as barbaric as the death-penalty. But since some people are hell-bend on the death-penalty I’m trying to think of some OTHER kind of punishment that may perhaps prevent the support of death-penalty.
WD> you didn’t really answer my question.
BF> “A barbaric crime deserves a barbaric punishment.” So should a crime in this way spread to all of society – making society barbaric? If we deem a crime barbaric isn’t it hypocracy to demand a barbaric punishment?
If we think murder is WRONG why must the state MURDER?
Originally posted by BackFire
"If we think murder is WRONG why must the state MURDER?"Because that's the only way to ensure that the person who murdered innocent people will never get the chance to do it again.
thumbsup
Who ever said executing a deranged maniac is barbaric? 😑 i say we are putting them out of thier misery and doing it in a far less vicious manner then they gave the innocent.
Originally posted by The Omega
RaventheOnly> “we should not let up and allow the true guilty to get a free pass because we are afraid to make a mistake”
So you’re willing to risk killing innocent people? How morbid indeed. What about the families of those innocent people who got the death-penalty? Why don’t they matter in your world-view?
“most executed we say were innocent did not have the legal system and technology we have today...”
What legal system? Are you truthfully saying the legal system of today is flawless?
So you would rather let criminals rot in jail and kill eachother off.... 😐 ... you would rather give the guilty the assurance that we can't touch them because we are too scared to hurt the already proven guilty by a minimum of four levels of court? ..... 😐
Todays justice system is not flawless, i never said that it was 😑 but compared to the past it has been extrodinarily improved and technology is nearing absolute certainty in determining DNA and evidence analysis. Anyway the death penalty is reserved for the most violent of crimes and most evidence left from violent crimes of this nature are substantial.
BF> Why is it not enough for you to put people in prison? Are you reall so blood-thirsty that you want to commit an act you - yourself - deem a crime? Namely murder?
How can you say that killing is WRONG - and then ask that the killer be killed? Do you want the robber to be robbed? The rapist to be raped?
RaventheOnly> Answer my questions, please.
"BF> Why is it not enough for you to put people in prison? Are you reall so blood-thirsty that you want to commit an act you - yourself - deem a crime? Namely murder?
How can you say that killing is WRONG - and then ask that the killer be killed? Do you want the robber to be robbed? The rapist to be raped?"
Because if you throw a murderer in jail, there is always that chance that they may escape and have another chance at hurting/killing another innocent person. Keeping them alive is not worth that risk in my eyes.
And actually, rapists usually do get raped when they're in prison, very badly. All the other criminals view rapists as scum (and lets be honest, who doesn't?), and they want to put them through as much pain as possible. Which is fine by me.
From what I heard is that child molestors are not put in a same cell as a regular inmate. Some inmates have kids, and despite the fact they are criminals they see child molestors as real lowly scumbags (which I agree with)
So don't think that a child molestors are thrown into a regular prison cell. They are put in a separate cell. Or else the rest of the inmates will stab them to death.
btw-Lady grim what's with the smilies? Also The Omega, how exactly do you want me to answer your question? I said it many times, derange murderers should be executed......period.
Originally posted by Tex
I think that life in prison is far worse then the death peanlty! Let the bastards suffer, that's what I say.
Yeah suffer with 3 meals a day and stuff, hmmm. The reason americas crime is so high is because its the mismatch county, we dont all have one type of person, really though, china has mainly chinese, england has mainly brits, afirica has mainly africans. America well has all types of people, which is a good thing. Murder in NYC is the lowest it has ever been since murder has been calculated. Plus americans are given so much free time/space/and stuff and get rather lazy, anbd angry, and commit murder. And the death penalty, well i agree with it ONLY on instances where you have video or conrete evidence, not just eye witnesses. So letting the death penalty not go and only have life in prison would cause an effect IMO. You know when people get the death penatly, or are thinking they might, the lawyers try to argue to get life in prison, lots of times this works. Well in 40 years or so if the death penalty is gone, lawyers will argue for only like 20 years in prison instead of life. Also, hey I just think some people don't realize that murderers CAN'T be recuperated, and are just plain evil. They do not deserve to live and laugh, and eat. Cause they probably get use to prison and comfortable, so they enjoy it sometimes. ONly in certain cases should the DP used IMO. But hey I say put in an expresss lay if their sure he/she did it, why let them live for 10 more years until the date
BF> Yes, there is a SMALL chance that a convict escapes. But for THIS reason you want to continue using the death-penalty – even when it’s obviously flawed (as I mentioned earlier). It’s permanent – so when it turns out the guy didn’t do it after all – it’s just “tough luck”?
What I meant with “do you want rapist raped, and robbers robbed” is this: If you want to murder murderer as punishment, do you then want all crimes punished in an equal manner?
When the death-sentence is carried out you turn the executioner into a murderer. I think this is barbaric and a modern civilised society should be beyond this.
Mass-murderers, paedophiles and rapists should be in closed institutions. They’re insane. No person being right in their mind murders, molests children and rapes other people. Killing them won’t make the crime go away, but they may do some good to science and psychologists who may figure out when and how things went wrong. THAT way these people might actually – indirectly – do society some good.
Mind you: I understand what lies behind the want for the death-penalty. I have no idea how I would react if one of my loved ones was the victim of a horrible crime – But no kind of punishment will UNDO the crime.
WD> It’s not a matter of how many (innocent people accidentially got sentenced to death) When did quantity matter more than quality of human life? Innocent people HAVE been sentenced to death and been killed by the state, only to later be acquitted by DNA-tests. Too late though. Should this fact not be enough to be against the death-penalty?
Well Omega, the chance of an inmate to escape really isn't that small. It happens pretty regularly and when it does, most of the time they do end up killing another innocent person. Since our prison system is so inept as to not being able to keep a guilty serial killer behind bars, then the only way to be absolutely sure they won't kill again is to kill them. This is the only reason why I advocate the death penalty.
Mind you, if there was some way besides death that would ensure that these people wouldn't have a chance to kill another innocent person again, I'd be all for that rather then the death penalty.
As for the whole innocent people getting executed, that's not a fault of the punishment, but of our inept court system. It's unfortunate, but either way you cut it, innocent people will die, whether it be because of an escaped prisoner, or because of a wrongful conviction.
The whole "death penalty" issue always seems to fall apart - because when discussing this issue it revolves around what to do with the worst dregs of humanity to ensure they don't prey on the rest of us.
Where the rational argument fails is because some (or most) people supporting the idea of a death penalty invariably end up making these ridiculous "cause them as much pain as possible - the scum deserve it" comments - not caring that they are saying "its ok to break the laws of the land to punish people who break the laws of the land..."
Add to that the fact that I am often having this discussion with Americans who live in a country that has different laws on this kind of thing depending on where you are standing in the country when you commit the crime... how ****ing stupid is that?
As a society we need to make far more of a distinction between who deserves to be in jail and who doesn't - and what a "life sentence" is. In my view execution belongs in the dark ages - and a desire for revenge rather than a workable and humane justice system that shows we have progressed as a society is something to aim at.