Originally posted by kgkg
Man stop BullshittingF4 said
Big Bang = PF you want scans no need to analyze it says it
Well here X-men Forever contradicts all of marvel Comics
No wonder they left it out in LT, or the End
It does call Phoenix the big bang but it also calls it the energies of creation so please tell how me how im bullshitting:
Now we have that cleared up if X-men Forever contradicts comics and then recent comics and handbooks come in and support it then guess what that situations called? RETCON!!!!!!!!! 😱
😂
Am I missing something? Those scans don't show LT getting owned. Have people actually read what is said in the captions?
And secondly, GS, LT is an aspect of TOAA. He's TOAA's appointed guardian of all creation.
God's Protection.
Just because TOAA used the Phoenix Force to create LT does not make LT weaker than the Phoenix Force. It's simply a technicality because all things are created through God's power of creation. The Phoenix Force is simply the TOAA's will to create/power of creation, it's not the sum of TOAA's abilities, it's a embodiment of his will.
TOAA could technically use the Phoenix Force to create his own equal, as illogical as that would seem (he could never create anything greater than himself, just equal to or lesser than being that he is the supreme). Would Phoenix then be more powerful than TOAA's equal because Phoenix was used to create it?
As I've said before, the Phoenix is not an absolute. It's purpose supercedes LT's purpose, not specifically it's power. Just as Jean was created to wield the Phoenix Force in creation, Living Tribunal was created to oversee and protecct all creation wielding the power of TOAA. Only difference being that by design, Phoenix is used to create, destroy, and re-create, which makes the purpose of LT, at the times of destruction, non-essential.
But anyway, I'm tired of these God Level debates GS. They are good, and we do usually get some good intelligent debates out of them, but in the end, nothing is really accomplished.
2 weeks later a Batman 1M w/2 years prep Vs. Phoenix or Morg w/Waters & Tyrant Vs. Phoenix thread will pop up and the essay posting will begin anew.
The cycle goes on forever.
Phoenix truly is the only constant in the Marvel Universe.
Besides Wolverine.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It does call Phoenix the big bang but it also calls it the energies of creation so please tell how me how im bullshitting:Now we have that cleared up if X-men Forever contradicts comics and then recent comics and handbooks come in and support it then guess what that situations called? RETCON!!!!!!!!! 😱
energies hmmmmmmm
Power Over all of Creation vs Energies of Creation ( the big bang) hmmmmmmmmmmm
Originally posted by illadelph12
😂Am I missing something? Those scans don't show LT getting owned. Have people actually read what is said in the captions?
And secondly, GS, LT is an aspect of TOAA. He's TOAA's appointed guardian of all creation.
[/B]
[B]God's Protection.
You have no evidence whatsoever to say that LT is an aspect of TOAA. Is surfer an aspect of Glaactus? No he is a herald of Galactus. Phoenix is a part of TOAA. His creation aspect and that is supported by its other names on panel, Tiphereth, White Crown) which are all aspects of god and the fact that crossovers have presented it as one and the same as an aspect of God (The Source). You dont seem to acknowledge the difference between an aspect of something and a creation of something. Theres no evidence whatsoever, no reference on panel to LT being an aspect.
Originally posted by illadelph12
As I've said before, the Phoenix is not an absolute. It's purpose supercedes LT's purpose, not specifically it's power. Just as Jean was created to wield the Phoenix Force in creation, Living Tribunal was created to oversee and protecct all creation wielding the power of TOAA. Only difference being that by design, Phoenix is used to create, destroy, and re-create, which makes the purpose of LT, at the times of destruction, non-essential. [/B]
Given the fact that you fail to make a distinction between an aspect and a creation of something i cant say i agree with the above. Jean wasnt created to wield the Phoenix force in creation, she is the phoenix force in creation, a direct manifestation of it in creation. That is the distinction between her and the other host bodies who merely house some of the power.
Originally posted by illadelph12
But anyway, I'm tired of these God Level debates GS. They are good, and we do usually get some good intelligent debates out of them, but in the end, nothing is really accomplished.2 weeks later a Batman 1M w/2 years prep Vs. Phoenix or Morg w/Waters & Tyrant Vs. Phoenix thread will pop up and the essay posting will begin anew.
[/B]
I enjoy them now and again. Especially with you and KG . I knew just what to say to get KG involved and he fell for it lol.
Originally posted by kgkg
it's called Retconenergies hmmmmmmm
Power Over all of Creation vs Energies of Creation ( the big bang) hmmmmmmmmmmm
Need i post a scan showing LT on his knees again. As featured in a comic which is CURRENT continuity?
According to X-men forever Lt's derived from creation so youre really not helping yourself mate. 😉
Given the fact that you fail to make a distinction between an aspect and a creation of something i cant say i agree with the above. Jean wasnt created to wield the Phoenix force in creation, she is the phoenix force in creation, a direct manifestation of it in creation. That is the distinction between her and the other host bodies who merely house some of the power.
So Living Tribunal isn't the physical representation/manifestation of TOAA's protection and judgement in creation?
Damn you for dragging me into this debate GS!!! 😂
Look, I'll leave it at this:
Jean Grey, the mutated human being, was created by TOAA using the Phoenix Force (she was born), and is one with the Phoenix Force, and in so being, wields God's power of creation and destruction.
Living Tribunal, is a being created by TOAA (using the Phoenix Force) with the sole purpose of protecting, judging and balancing everything that TOAA creates, and is empowered directly by TOAA to do so.
The technicality that there is no specified name for the "force" that empowers Living Tribunal, and the fact that the Phoenix Force, by design, is used to create Living Tribunal, does not make the Phoenix Force wholely superior to Living Tribunal. TOAA, through Phoenix, his "power to create", could create an avatar for his other aspects as well, like his power of protection, his power of judgement, etc., the roles Living Tribunal fulfills.
Granted, this is not written, but this can easily be deduced by simply looking at the material presented objectively.
Now, with that said, if Phoenix embodies TOAA's power of destruction, and Living Tribunal embodies TOAA's power of protection, when TOAA moves to use his power to destroy something, is he going to use his power of protection to stop the action?
No.
It is at this juncture that the purpose of the Phoenix supercedes the purpose of Living Tribunal.
Does that make Phoenix more powerful than Living Tribunal?
No.
It simply means that the purpose of the Phoenix, at times, is outside the confines of Living Tribunal's purpose. Logically when you act to destroy something, you don't mean to protect it, and you can't protect something if it doesn't exist.
They are peers, and complimentary parts of a whole.
Without Living Tribunal to protect creation, it's cycles would be unbalanced and in an endless premature purge.
Without Phoenix there'd be no creation cycle for Living Tribunal to protect at all.
Is that clearer?
Quit arguing Gods!!!
Street Level Heroes is where it's at. 😄
Except Batman.
Originally posted by illadelph12
So Living Tribunal isn't the physical representation/manifestation of TOAA's protection and judgement in creation?Damn you for dragging me into this debate GS!!! 😂
Look, I'll leave it at this:
Jean Grey, the mutated human being, was created by TOAA using the Phoenix Force (she was born), and is one with the Phoenix Force, and in so being, wields God's power of creation and destruction.
Living Tribunal, is a being created by TOAA (using the Phoenix Force) with the sole purpose of protecting, judging and balancing everything that TOAA creates, and is empowered directly by TOAA to do so.
The technicality that there is no specified name for the "force" that empowers Living Tribunal, and the fact that the Phoenix Force, by design, is used to create Living Tribunal, does not make the Phoenix Force wholely superior to Living Tribunal. TOAA, through Phoenix, his "power to create", could create an avatar for his other aspects as well, like his power of protection, his power of judgement, etc., the roles Living Tribunal fulfills.
Granted, this is not written, but this can easily be deduced by simply looking at the material presented objectively.
Now, with that said, if Phoenix embodies TOAA's power of destruction, and Living Tribunal embodies TOAA's power of protection, when TOAA moves to use his power to destroy something, is he going to use his power of protection to stop the action?
No.
It is at this juncture that the purpose of the Phoenix supercedes the purpose of Living Tribunal.
Does that make Phoenix more powerful than Living Tribunal?
No.
It simply means that the purpose of the Phoenix, at times, is outside the confines of Living Tribunal's purpose. Logically when you act to destroy something, you don't mean to protect it, and you can't protect something if it doesn't exist.
They are peers, and complimentary parts of a whole.
Without Living Tribunal to protect creation, it's cycles would be unbalanced and in an endless premature purge.
Without Phoenix there'd be no creation cycle for Living Tribunal to protect at all.
Is that clearer?
Quit arguing Gods!!!
Street Level Heroes is where it's at. 😄
Except Batman.
Well i wont carry it on mostly because that was one loooong post and secondly because although i dont agree with all of what youre saying its logical and you come to the same conclusion that theyre peers which is cool. 😄
Originally posted by leonheartmmThe 616 is Marvel's prime universe, the other universes are different vibrational frequencies of the prime universe, a different frequency for every possibility.
so wait, gs, now ur godly pheonix only has the power of the big bang of ONE universe as opposed to the infinite universes in the multiverse?
Originally posted by Juntai
The 616 is Marvel's prime universe, the other universes are different vibrational frequencies of the prime universe, a different frequency for every possibility.
but that means theres a different pheonix for every universe in the multiverse, ust like other abstracts and not one omnipotent one
Originally posted by leonheartmmThey exist because 616 exists, and 616 exists because Pheonix created it.
but that means theres a different pheonix for every universe in the multiverse, ust like other abstracts and not one omnipotent one
Originally posted by BlaqChaosBut that doesn't change anything I said in the context I used it in. Pheonix created creation.. primarily, 616, and the rest are just different vibrations of it.
Don't forget that the rest of the realities and universes can survives the destruction of the 616 reality (as Roma pointed out a month or two ago, when she was about to destroy it).
Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
I'm still not convinced that THOTU can take the LT
You are kidding, right. LT is joke to THOTU. THOTU also in some way showed, what would happen to anyone if would challenge TOAA.
THOTU is the only power ever shown that we could consider as absolute, almighty power.
Phoenix Force is beyond LT.
Anyway the team Death, Eternity, Thanos with Infinity would lose to LT.
Phoenix is more a Representative of the cycle of destruction than the cycle of life. She brings down upon the world in the form of knowledge the force one would use to purport that agenda. She appears to be life's vanguard but look at the representation of what she is. Arising from the ashes to be destroyed to rise again.
Being on that side of the fence; granted she has some power but it is far more powerful to be on the side of love...thus maybe why she choose Jean as her host...cause of her love for Scott...than it will or could ever be to be on the side of destruction.
Thanos learned that lesson.
Even the One above All or the living Tribunal doesn't have the authority to override love of one for another.
The beyonder tried to earn it with Dazzler giving her half of all he was and failed.
Love just a little today and be immortalized forever.
Have a nice nite.