Originally posted by Xplosive
You are kidding, right. LT is joke to THOTU. THOTU also in some way showed, what would happen to anyone if would challenge TOAA.
THOTU is the only power ever shown that we could consider as absolute, almighty power.
Originally posted by Xplosive
LT was completely destroyed. He is at a one everywhere, he chllanege THOTU andhe died as an insect, he was completely destroyed.
he wasn't destroyed rather he was absorb.
THOTU is beyond PF who hasn't done much.
Other than silly theories out here
God/ Presence ( yah)
recreated chain of power
like LT / Lucifer
who are beyond FP , and Source
Originally posted by kgkg
he wasn't destroyed rather he was absorb.THOTU is beyond PF who hasn't done much.
Other than silly theories out here
God/ Presence ( yah)
recreated chain of powerlike LT / Lucifer
who are beyond FP , and Source
LT and Lucifer are not beyond the Source as the source is an aspect of god. You are only going to beat an aspect of god with another part of god. Understand that.
You keep saying Phoenix has done much but on panel its been accredited with being the power behind all of creation, it contained the multiverse destroying power of the M'kraan crystal and Jean held the 616 reality (Eternity) in her hand like it was nothing amputated an undesirable future and restructured its matter telekinetically.
Those feats are more than LT has ever accomplished so what are you goingon about? 🙄 😛
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
LT and Lucifer are not beyond the Source as the source is an aspect of god. You are only going to beat an aspect of god with another part of god. Understand that.You keep saying Phoenix has done much but on panel its been accredited with being the power behind all of creation, it contained the multiverse destroying power of the M'kraan crystal and Jean held the 616 reality (Eternity) in her hand like it was nothing amputated an undesirable future and restructured its matter telekinetically.
Those feats are more than LT has ever accomplished so what are you goingon about? 🙄 😛
i have already answered those Question
contained the same PF could keep up with LT's power
held LT can destroy countless universe , there is no limit
and he is beyond fighting the X-men for a change
how many people have abused the PF in the past and used it's power.
Originally posted by kgkg
damn u are herei have already answered those Question
contained the same PF could keep up with LT's power
held LT can destroy countless universe , there is no limitand he is beyond fighting the X-men for a change
how many people have abused the PF in the past and used it's power.
KG thats irrelevant. I like the way you'd happily argue for Galactus against the skyfathers stating that there are circumstances behind his low showings (i.e he's weak and in need of sustenance) yet you arent willing to do that here.
Just like Phoenix LT has low showings, one of which i showed you wherer his efforts were getting nullified by Doctor Strange who himself admits hes not as powerful as Silver Surfer. 😉
Going by the characters highest showings and their roles Phoenix wins. Look how you're saying "oh LT can destroy countless universes" but has he done that on panel? No. If it was the other way around and it was me saying that you'd dismiss my claims and say he hasnt done so on panel. 😱
On panel Phoenix has far better feats and theres the fact that she created the multiverse LT guards. The fact that LT gets his ass replaced an idea which has yet to be contradicted since X-men forevers release.
Better feats, greater role, aspect of god.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
KG thats irrelevant. I like the way you'd happily argue for Galactus against the skyfathers stating that there are circumstances behind his low showings (i.e he's weak and in need of sustenance) yet you arent willing to do that here.Just like Phoenix LT has low showings, one of which i showed you wherer his efforts were getting nullified by Doctor Strange who himself admits hes not as powerful as Silver Surfer. 😉
Going by the characters highest showings and their roles Phoenix wins. Look how you're saying "oh LT can destroy countless universes" but has he done that on panel? No. If it was the other way around and it was me saying that you'd dismiss my claims and say he hasnt done so on panel. 😱
On panel Phoenix has far better feats and theres the fact that she created the multiverse LT guards. The fact that LT gets his ass replaced an idea which has yet to be contradicted since X-men forevers release.
Better feats, greater role, aspect of god.
but i don't see how PF beats LT.
did you read that issue Gs strange later is begging , and even admits LT is beyond all.
so you are saying PF is like Galactus.
i mean you keep going by retcon etc
but lets look at Phoenix history nothing shows she is above LT
even now you take what it says inForever like bible which was total bullshit and contricts all of marvel like i have been saying like how many times 😉
and please post scan of that FF shit you were talking about where you said PF creates the multiverse.
Originally posted by kgkg
i haven't dimed anything you said GSbut i don't see how PF beats LT.
did you read that issue Gs strange later is begging , and even admits LT is beyond all.
so you are saying PF is like Galactus.
i mean you keep going by retcon etc
but lets look at Phoenix history nothing shows she is above LT
even now you take what it says inForever like bible which was total bullshit and contricts all of marvel like i have been saying like how many times 😉
and please post scan of that FF shit you were talking about where you said PF creates the multiverse.
KG do you know what a multiverse is? After a prime universe is created over time vibrational differences in that universe atoms cause alternate universes to form parallel to it. That is a multiverse. Phoenix created 616 the main marvel universe and over time alternate universes diverged from it at different points in the timestream gradually forming a multiverse whose point of origin is the phoenix.
Phoenix is the power source of creation and its heart is the Crown (as stated in Uncanny X-men 460), the White Hot room.
It seems you've been confused over what exactly a multiverse is. Now you know.
Of course ive read the issue. Thats how i posted the scan. Doesnt change the fact that it was a pre Sorcerer supreme strange who was nullifying LT's attempts. Thats a low showing however does that change what he's capable of at his best? NO!!! See my point? 😉
No im not saying Phoenix is like Galactus where on earth are you getting that from?
Im going by X-men forever because its current continuity and the fact that it goes against every else supports my claim that a retcon has taken place.
Originally posted by kgkg
he wasn't destroyed rather he was absorb.
Which in the end equalls as the same, LT was gone, like he never existed and was shown as nothing compared to THOTU. THOTU than restored everything and make again a puppet from LT and any other when he made no one will remember anything and make a new rule. There were all beings in highest order in that battle, except PF.
Living Tribunal kneeled before Jean.
Originally posted by kgkg
held LT can destroy countless universe , there is no limit
He has limits, if he wouldnt, he would be equal to TOAA. He has limits, only THOTU showed no limits and we all know TOAA doesnt have limits, and he is the one who created HOTU.
Originally posted by kgkg
but lets look at Phoenix history nothing shows she is above LT
Living Tribunal kneeling before Phoenix is enough.
Its clear that PF is beyond LT. THOTU is beyond LT
TOAA
THOTU
PF
LT
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
KG do you know what a multiverse is? After a prime universe is created over time vibrational differences in that universe atoms cause alternate universes to form parallel to it. That is a multiverse. Phoenix created 616 the main marvel universe and over time alternate universes diverged from it at different points in the timestream gradually forming a multiverse whose point of origin is the phoenix.Phoenix is the power source of creation and its heart is the Crown (as stated in Uncanny X-men 460), the White Hot room.
It seems you've been confused over what exactly a multiverse is. Now you know.
Of course ive read the issue. Thats how i posted the scan. Doesnt change the fact that it was a pre Sorcerer supreme strange who was nullifying LT's attempts. Thats a low showing however does that change what he's capable of at his best? NO!!! See my point? 😉
No im not saying Phoenix is like Galactus where on earth are you getting that from?
Im going by X-men forever because its current continuity and the fact that it goes against every else supports my claim that a retcon has taken place.
So you think a retcon has happened to the everything else in marvel that's been going on for years?
And from what
Forever? Well in She-Hulk , The End Lt still seemed the main guy out there.
And you keep bring creation? So what
Galactus was part of creation ? does that chance shit? No
Think out
Lucifer and the Source
Originally posted by Xplosive
Which in the end equalls as the same, LT was gone, like he never existed and was shown as nothing compared to THOTU. THOTU than restored everything and make again a puppet from LT and any other when he made no one will remember anything and make a new rule. There were all beings in highest order in that battle, except PF.
Living Tribunal kneeled before Jean.He has limits, if he wouldnt, he would be equal to TOAA. He has limits, only THOTU showed no limits and we all know TOAA doesnt have limits, and he is the one who created HOTU.
Living Tribunal kneeling before Phoenix is enough.
Its clear that PF is beyond LT. THOTU is beyond LTTOAA
THOTU
PF
LT
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
KG do you know what a multiverse is? After a prime universe is created over time vibrational differences in that universe atoms cause alternate universes to form parallel to it. That is a multiverse. Phoenix created 616 the main marvel universe and over time alternate universes diverged from it at different points in the timestream gradually forming a multiverse whose point of origin is the phoenix.Phoenix is the power source of creation and its heart is the Crown (as stated in Uncanny X-men 460), the White Hot room.
It seems you've been confused over what exactly a multiverse is. Now you know.
Also with the aspect of God is the only thing beating an aspect of God, depending on which is favored in the circumstance, or which aspect is more closely following his intended role.
It's pretty much a repeat conversation now and quite useless.
Originally posted by kgkg
So you think a retcon has happened to the everything else in marvel that's been going on for years?And from what
Forever? Well in She-Hulk , The End Lt still seemed the main guy out there.
And you keep bring creation? So what
Galactus was part of creation ? does that chance shit? No
Think out
Lucifer and the Source
KG you keep bringing up the same old points which at the time i answer then over a month or so you seem to forget (or stubbornly dismiss them 😉 ) and post them again.
In she hulk it basically said LT had jurisdiction over creation. Whats your point? We know that.
The 86 retcon had been in place for 17 years X-men forever and then New X-men were the first to contradict its ideas and therefore started the new phoenix interpretation. Its only this year that other sources apart from X-men (F4 and handbooks) have started to accept this which is understandable giving how long the previous ideas were in place. The latest handbooks which came out after The End supported the events of Forever, by referring to them and by changing Galactus' origin therefore showing its current continuity.
At the end of the day Forever (whose events have yet to be contradicted) showed that on the hierarchy Phoenix was above LT
This year it has been confirmed that Phoenix is indeed responsible for the creation of the multiverse (which says it all really) which it is Lt's role to guard.
New X-men and Uncanny X-men again confirmed the Crown/God link with Phoenix and as an aspect of God is beyond a creation of God who cannot act outside of his appointed role.
Originally posted by Juntai
We already tried to describe this to these people multiple times.Also with the aspect of God is the only thing beating an aspect of God, depending on which is favored in the circumstance, or which aspect is more closely following his intended role.
It's pretty much a repeat conversation now and quite useless.
I know its frustrating. You're in the same situation in Spectre debates lol.
Its so obvious that an aspect of God a part of him is inherently beyond a creation of God who cant act outside of his role.
Originally posted by Xplosive
GalacticStorm, did LT kneel before Jean, cause I had seen that, was it him or not kneeling before Phoenix. I think he was and that is fact, and that is already enough Phoenix is beyond LT. Why is he saying did you read, I havent read whole issue, only seen picture LT kneeling before Jean.
The comic was about evolution and how humanity would one day involve into beings who would surpass and replace the abstracts and LT.
The abstracts of this universe are just the evolved humanity of the last. Galactus is the best example of this, however the comic extended it to all the abstracts and LT.
The comic stated that Jean as Phoenix had already reached this potential and it showed that this process and creation were all revolved around Phoenix.
Stranger wanted to use Jean and her connection to the force (at the time she didnt know she herself was phoenix) to make himself the supreme being of creation by taking control of this process. Hence that picture i posted of Jean at the centre of creation and the abstracts bowing down before her and a phoenix enhanced Stranger.
Originally posted by GalacticStormExcept Spectre hasn't actually lost to anyone, ever that I can recall off of the top of my head [and I own all but a few of every series of his comics.], save Micheal bearing the word of god. And has feats far above anyone or anything imo. But I do see your point about people being clueless about the concept of these abstract aspects.
I know its frustrating. You're in the same situation in Spectre debates lol.Its so obvious that an aspect of God a part of him is inherently beyond a creation of God who cant act outside of his role.
And if Pheonix indeed has been stated as tephireth an aspect of God, then it is indeed above all but other aspects.
Originally posted by Juntai
Except Spectre hasn't actually lost to anyone, ever, save Micheal bearing the word of god. And has feats far above anyone or anything imo. But I do see your point about people being clueless about the concept of these abstract aspects.
When you say Spectre hasnt lost to anyone what do you mean exactly?