Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I was curious, what is Superman's greatest feat of strength that he has performed at his base strength, unaided by any companions?
Well, he wasn't aided in holding it, but Superman was able to hold a black hole in his hand. The smallest black holes (microscopic, actually) are said to be thousands of millions of tonnes. The one Superman held was considerably larger than microscopic. GL helped him contain it so it didn't spill through his hands, but superman held it on his own.
Superman and Wonder Woman were able to hold up the Spectre, who is the weight of the "universe" or somesuch. Agreed, it took two of them (one on each side), but even if you were to cut it in half....
There are some fights wherein it will take a while for Hulk to become stronger than his opponent. That depends on how angry he is. Hulk's strength isn't alway's going to increase exponentially. The fact remains that it *can* increase exponentially. There are fights in which Hulk has become MUCH stronger than Thor. So much so that Thor has had to rely solely on Mjolnir to keep Hulk away from him.
When has Hulk become MUCH stronger? The only real victory for Hulk against Thor was when Thor was exausted and Hulk bragged that he was stronger than ever. Thor said, "Does his strength know no limits?", but if Thor was still able to fight Hulk to a draw with Mjolnir....it wasn't exponential. Maybe 20% over the course of an hour.
Drax was increasing his strength with the gem. Hulk was able to match his strength increases.
Which I deem totally acceptable. The Power Gem (until She-Hulk) has shown the ability to progressively increase its weilder's strength as they subconsciously tap into it.
I see. If that's the case, and the concept is new and untested, let's not make hasty assumptions. The only Superman I've ever seen pulling in energy from his environment is Energy Supes, and that's because he's an energy manipulator. Let's not assume that Superman would be able to do the same simply because he's agitated.
Why not? Ruin (who's yet-to-be-revealed identity seems to know everything about how Superman's powers work) said that he discovered Superman's stress-absorption link.
Also Superman in DKR was able to absorb energy Bishop-style. From the plants, trees, grass, etc. He was virtually discorporated and was able to come back pretty quickly just from that.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Spiderman's amazement doesn't give the feat an "impossible" sort of gesture? I mean, Spiderman has seen Hulk do some pretty amazing things. Spiderman being shocked at Hulk performing such a feat says a lot about it.
Well, impossible in that, "th...that can't be!" comicbook sort of way. My guess is that it wasn't meant to be the kind of feat the comicbook scientists like us make it out to be based on real-life matter-anti-matter attraction theories. Similar to how "gamma bombs" was just something Stan Lee pulled out of his ass. The writer likely thought that the term "matter/anti-matter" was cool and went with it. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.
Whirlysplat says it's bad writing. 😄
And that would be why. 🙂
Just about everyone accepts that the feat demonstrates limitless strength. long pig, leonidas, kgkg, and Avvy, just to name a few. And it does. [/B]
Yeah, but half the people you named are you. 😆
Originally posted by demigawd
Well, he wasn't aided in holding it, but Superman was able to hold a black hole in his hand. The smallest black holes (microscopic, actually) are said to be thousands of millions of tonnes. The one Superman held was considerably larger than microscopic. GL helped him contain it so it didn't spill through his hands, but superman held it on his own.Superman and Wonder Woman were able to hold up the Spectre, who is the weight of the "universe" or somesuch. Agreed, it took two of them (one on each side), but even if you were to cut it in half....
When has Hulk become MUCH stronger? The only real victory for Hulk against Thor was when Thor was exausted and Hulk bragged that he was stronger than ever. Thor said, "Does his strength know no limits?", but if Thor was still able to fight Hulk to a draw with Mjolnir....it wasn't exponential. Maybe 20% over the course of an hour.
Which I deem totally acceptable. The Power Gem (until She-Hulk) has shown the ability to progressively increase its weilder's strength as they subconsciously tap into it.
Why not? Ruin (who's yet-to-be-revealed identity seems to know everything about how Superman's powers work) said that he discovered Superman's stress-absorption link.
Also Superman in DKR was able to absorb energy Bishop-style. From the plants, trees, grass, etc. He was virtually discorporated and was able to come back pretty quickly just from that.
Actually, the black hole that Superman held it was specifically described (by Captain Atom) as being microscopic. It was inside of Mnemon's device, which made the JLA forget how to use their powers. I've read that one.
Superman and Wonder Woman were not able to lift the Spectre, because of his weight. That was quite a stretch, demi.
Can you recall the heaviest thing Superman has lifted at his base strength, without any help? I'm trying to find out exactly where he stands in comparison to Hulk's base strength, which isn't well defined, but is said to be above 100 tons.
Thor said Hulk had become stronger than anyone he'd ever faced. Including guys like Mangog. It's pretty clear that Hulk's was a LOT stronger than Thor.
A 20% increase over an hour!? You've got to be kidding me, demi. Hulk was smacking Thor around like he was a child. You don't holler, "Damnit! Don't you have any limit to how strong you can get?" just because your opponent got 20% stronger than you. You're reaching now, demi. The fight didn't even last an hour.
Hulk got angrier, once and he became so much stronger than Hercules that he nearly killed him. Zeus had to stop the fight. You're undercutting Hulk, and you know it. He has become many times stronger than his opponents on more than one occasion.
Ruin said that he could increase the rate of absorbtion because of stress. That could (and most likely does) mean that Superman's cells absorb sunlight with greater effeciency when stressed, not that he gains the ability to drain sunlight from the sun when stressed. Absorbtion is one thing. Energy manipulation is another.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Devil Hulk isn't very strong at all. 😬
He's just annoying.I think you mean Guilt Hulk. No one knows exactly how powerful it is, but it's uber.
The Devil Hulk is so cool,it sucks that he isn't very powerful. 🙁 I thought that he was uber cool in the new Hulk game and they made him seem pretty powerful.How much could he lift in the comics?
Originally posted by Ultimate Hulk43
The Devil Hulk is so cool,it sucks that he isn't very powerful. 🙁 I thought that he was uber cool in the new Hulk game and they made him seem pretty powerful.How much could he lift in the comics?
I don't know. He never appeared anywhere other than inside of Hulk's brain. You're talking about the orange hulk, right?
I don't remember the microscopic part, but like I said, microscopic black holes are said to be thousands of millions of tonnes. That's far in excess of any strength feat of the Hulk, putting aside the questionable matter-anti-matter thing.
As I recall, Superman and Wonder Woman WERE able to lift the Spectre. I think there are even scans of it floating around on this board.
I'll have to dig around to remember the heaviest thing - but pushing WarWorld comes has got to be near the top. That, too, exceeds most feats of strength that Hulk has.
I tend to go more by feats than by exclamations by characters, especially blowhards like Thor. By feats, Mangog DOMINATED Thor in ways Hulk never did, even after Thor made that exclamation. Thor wasn't being dominated in that fight against Hulk. It's similar to how, 10 issues after fighting Celestials, Cyclops called Apocalypse's supremacy "unmatchable".
Also to say that Hulk was smacking around Thor like a child is an EXTREME exaggeration of the events. Hulk had a definite edge, but smacking around like a child is waaaaaay off. It showed Hulk became stronger, and Thor became weaker - but the fight was still even, even after that. That's why I wouldn't credit Hulk with more than a 20% gain. In truth, it's probably less.
Hulk HAS become much stronger than his opponents - but every time it's happened, it's been because of something to make him fly completely off the handle. In the case of Abomination, it was because Abom taunted him over his wife.
Against the Ngari demon, Hulk was getting OWNED. It took Hulk believing the demon killed his missing friend to actually jump to the level of strength required to put the demon down.
So - yes, extreme trauma of some type can cause that jump in strength, but again, it's unrealistic given his combat with Superman.
Ruin specifically said it's active, not passive. Superman actually has the ability to consciously absorb energy, but he doesn't know it yet (he learns it in the future - hence DKR).
Originally posted by demigawd
Well, impossible in that, "th...that can't be!" comicbook sort of way. My guess is that it wasn't meant to be the kind of feat the comicbook scientists like us make it out to be based on real-life matter-anti-matter attraction theories. Similar to how "gamma bombs" was just something Stan Lee pulled out of his ass. The writer likely thought that the term "matter/anti-matter" was cool and went with it. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.And that would be why. 🙂
Yeah, but half the people you named are you. 😆
Demi. Buddy. Let's be fair.
Spiderman has witnessed Hulk supporting mountan ranges, closing Earthquake fissures, and doing impossible feats as a resident of the same world Hulk occupies. He's also a brilliant scientist, who knows his physics. Did you read what Spiderman says?
"It's incredible! He's actually moving them back, but only a few inches! Now he's holding his own! If he gets tired, even a little, we've had it!"
What was the feat meant to show, demi? Would there have to be a caption on the panel that says "- Hulk is currently exercising limitless strength" to convince you?
You are starting to sound a bit biased, demi. 😬
Originally posted by demigawd
I don't remember the microscopic part, but like I said, microscopic black holes are said to be thousands of millions of tonnes. That's far in excess of any strength feat of the Hulk, putting aside the questionable matter-anti-matter thing.As I recall, Superman and Wonder Woman WERE able to lift the Spectre. I think there are even scans of it floating around on this board.
I'll have to dig around to remember the heaviest thing - but pushing WarWorld comes has got to be near the top. That, too, exceeds most feats of strength that Hulk has.
I tend to go more by feats than by exclamations by characters, especially blowhards like Thor. By feats, Mangog DOMINATED Thor in ways Hulk never did, even after Thor made that exclamation. Thor wasn't being dominated in that fight against Hulk. It's similar to how, 10 issues after fighting Celestials, Cyclops called Apocalypse's supremacy "unmatchable".
Also to say that Hulk was smacking around Thor like a child is an EXTREME exaggeration of the events. Hulk had a definite edge, but smacking around like a child is waaaaaay off. It showed Hulk became stronger, and Thor became weaker - but the fight was still even, even after that. That's why I wouldn't credit Hulk with more than a 20% gain. In truth, it's probably less.
Hulk HAS become much stronger than his opponents - but every time it's happened, it's been because of something to make him fly completely off the handle. In the case of Abomination, it was because Abom taunted him over his wife.
Against the Ngari demon, Hulk was getting OWNED. It took Hulk believing the demon killed his missing friend to actually jump to the level of strength required to put the demon down.
So - yes, extreme trauma of some type can cause that jump in strength, but again, it's unrealistic given his combat with Superman.
Ruin specifically said it's active, not passive. Superman actually has the ability to consciously absorb energy, but he doesn't know it yet (he learns it in the future - hence DKR).
A 'thousand million tons' is a billion tons.
I very vividly recall Captain Atom referring to the black hole as 'microscopic.' There's a scan on the Superman vs. Thor thread.
Hulk supported over 150 billion tons on his back. As Savage Hulk, he's moved tectonic plates, which literally weigh hundreds of trillions of tons, even while calm.
Hulk's matter antimatter feat isn't questionable. It's validated by Stan Lee, so with all due respect, your personal opinion of the feat doesn't hold sway.
There are scans on the board. No, they weren't able to lift Spectre. Ask leonidas. Even with the help of GL, Superman and Wonder Woman struggled mightily to move the moon. Each of them being able to lift half of the universe is nonsensical.
Superman wasn't at his base strength when he pushed War World.
Where is there any evidence of Thor becoming weaker throughout the fight? 🤨
First off, the Ngari demon was much, much stronger than Hulk. Hulk didn't have any reason to be unusually angry until he thought that the demon killed his friend. That caused an exponential increase in Hulk's strength.
I'm sure you've taken biology. You should know what active transport means. It means facilitated transport. That means that the transport of sunlight into Superman's cells is controlled by a process. The part about him 'sucking' energy from the sun came from your imagination.
Demi, to determine whether Superman’s feats are greater than Hulk’s, or vice versa, we’d have to compile a list of feats for both of them. Set them apart into categories.
What’s Hulk’s greatest feat at base level strength?
What’s Superman’s greatest feat at base level strength
What’s Hulk’s greatest feat overall?
What’s Superman’s greatest feat overall?
You simply saying “Superman is stronger than Hulk,” and me replying “No, Hulk is stronger than Superman,’ won’t get us anywhere. We need to act like mature debatoes.
But more importantly, for the debate to continue, both of us have to be open to convincing. I have tried to be as open-minded as possible. When you bring up a feat, for Superman, I evaluate it for exactly what it is. It seems that when I bring up a feat for Hulk, you let your personal opinions affect your evaluation of it. I respect Superman as one of the greatest Superheroes and a tough guy for almost any Superhero to fight. I’m not sure if you respect Hulk in the same manner.
I don’t know what it is., but it almost seems like you’re trying to discredit Hulk. I’m not calling you a basher, but you seem to have acquired distaste for the green guy. I hope that isn’t the case. Some Hulk fans can be assholes, but I’m a Hulk fan, and I don’t think he’s unbeatable. In fact, I’ve admitted countless times that Superman wins this battle. The only reason I’m posting on this thread is Hulk simply doesn’t get the respect he deserves. I have a lot of respect for you as a debater, and I trust that you don’t have animosity towards Hulk, or Hulk fans. You’re better than this that. I know it.
Can we have a clean debate?
Has this turned it to a debate about whose the strongest or who wins this fight, cause hulk is CAPABLE of becoming stronger then superman over time but superman starts off with a huge stregth advantage, as for the fight superman would destroy the hulk due to how many advantages he has over the the hulk( speed, flight, range abilities and superhuman sences)
Originally posted by Juntai
He's just trying to get Hulk, one of his fav chars, some respect, which is admirable. Though he already admitted Supes wins most encounters.
Thank you very much, Juntai.
Originally posted by superman302
Has this turned it to a debate about whose the strongest or who wins this fight, cause hulk is CAPABLE of becoming stronger then superman over time but superman starts off with a huge stregth advantage, as for the fight superman would destroy the hulk due to how many advantages he has over the the hulk( speed, flight, range abilities and superhuman sences)
I'm well aware of the advantages that Superman has. He can easily outmaneuver Hulk, and he has greater range and versatility. Normal Hulk COULD become as strong as Superman, or stronger. In Hulk's more powerful incarnations, he IS as strong as Superman, or even stronger. Strength is the only advantage Hulk would have in this fight. I just want people to understand that.
"As I recall, Superman and Wonder Woman WERE able to lift the Spectre. I think there are even scans of it floating around on this board."
They didnt. Spectre was falling above them, they tried to stop the fall and couldnt. It was Kyle who did it alone, after.
"It's incredible! He's actually moving them back, but only a few inches! Now he's holding his own! If he gets tired, even a little, we've had it!"
...«now hes holding its own, but as soon as he gets tired, even a little, we had it»
and Spiderman says : « Unless of course if we cant keep the anti-mater spheres from coming together...»
And he changes tactics the next panel.
That Hulk was able to held his own against such force at first isent questionable. That he never had problems and that he could do it as long as he wanted is.
"Also to say that Hulk was smacking around Thor like a child is an EXTREME exaggeration of the events. Hulk had a definite edge, but smacking around like a child is waaaaaay off. It showed Hulk became stronger, and Thor became weaker - but the fight was still even, even after that. That's why I wouldn't credit Hulk with more than a 20% gain. In truth, it's probably less."
Is this about the fight where Hulk made a hostage and Thor fought without hammer? He didnt got weaker. He just got more hurt than Hulk did in the end. It wasent a win for either. They wer both up until the end fighting.
"I'm well aware of the advantages that Superman has. He can easily outmaneuver Hulk, and he has greater range and versatility. Normal Hulk COULD become as strong as Superman, or stronger. In Hulk's more powerful incarnations, he IS as strong as Superman, or even stronger. Strength is the only advantage Hulk would have in this fight. I just want people to understand that."
All true. The big problem here its Supes making Hulk a one dimensional character in comparation.
I say Hulk gets the majorty in a slugfest type, but in a straight lite, with all powers at theyr disposal, the majority literally flies to the other way.