Superman vs. Hulk

Originally posted by Juntai
It is indeed believable that Hulk could become stronger than Superman, in the right form/version and circumstances, I'm not really arguing that as Superman is a dynamic character with multiple angles of great powers, Hulk is just considered the epitome of awesome strength and durability. It would just be more supportive of the character if he proved it more often and didn't get beat up so much.

Blame that on dumb-ass Marvel Comics Inc.! I hate those mother-f*ckers! 😠

All they care about is X-Men, Phoenix, Wolverine, Spiderman, blah blah blah... Screw consistency and continuity...

They practically ignore the green guy. All of his comics nowadays suck. They're like psychology lectures.

🙁

Also for the Warworld, when he pushed it, it was moving against him...and was powered up with infinite energy of Imperiex...
That's amped up versions of what is normally already Lightspeed engines... So consider force enough to move a planet... then move a planet at lightspeed... then amp this up with much much much more vast energies of Imperiex.... and it was forcing against Superman, and he still shoved it backwards. Can you calculate that force?

See the mass of energy POURING out of the other side of powered up Warworld?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
😉

Though not necessarily billions of times stronger, I'd say he's far stronger than Hulk's weaker incarnations.

What's the heaviest thing Supes lifted at his base level?

Originally posted by Juntai
Also for the Warworld, when he pushed it, it was moving against him...and was powered up with infinite energy of Imperiex...
That's amped up versions of what is normally already Lightspeed engines... So consider force enough to move a planet... then move a planet at lightspeed... then amp this up with much much much more vast energies of Imperiex.... and it was forcing against Superman, and he still shoved it backwards. Can you calculate that force?

See the mass of energy POURING out of the other side of powered up Warworld?

I see it. That's an impressive show of power on Superman's part. I also see the energy pouring out behind Superman. He's projecting more force than the engines are.

I can't calculate the amount of energy Superman is outputting, but we know that he can propel himself faster than light at base level. When sundipped, he would obviously project a whole lot more force. Even an exponentially greater amount.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I gave an explanation of how gamma rays have the said effect on their victim. It's a few pages back. Anyone who has gained powers as a result of gamma radiation gained them because of their subconscious mind. Don't act like I haven't explained this.

I read your "explanation" - I guess Emil's secret fantasy was to be a giant green serpentine monster, huh?

Since Stan Lee is the u]creator[/u] of the Hulk. His opinion outweighs yours, mine, or the opinion of any of the Hulk's other writers. Stan Lee's *view* is the Hulk's history.

I take exception to that view - a character does not belong to the creator because the character is greater than the creator. The Hulk is the sum total of every writer who has ever written him. If Stan Lee's view of the Hulk's history is different from the Hulk's WRITTEN history, we are obligated to disregard that view - views aren't canon. Peter David, the longest writer of Hulk said that Hulk could beat Galactus. Now we have people like DevilHulk peeing himself running around the boards with "proof" that Hulk > Galactus.

A short while ago, you said that the writer's idea of the feat means more than the actual feat. Now you're saying the opposite. Have you changed your mind?

You're twisting my words and you know it, CC. I said you have to gauge the writer's intent, rather than fanboy Hulk scientists making more out of a feat than they should. That has no bearing whatsoever on my statement that Stan Lee's opinion is outweighed by the actual written history of the Hulk. I have no idea how you could make that conclusion.

What exactly is DKR? Was this normal Superman? Can you give an issue number on this? You seem to be a bit confused at what Superman can and cannot do, so with all due respect, I can't exactly trust your judgement. A few pages ago, you were telling me that he can lift at least half the weight of the universe. And since you've yet to prove that Superman has a strength advantage over Hulk to start with, your point is moot.

So now because you deem me "confused" about Superman you disregard evidence? DKR is Dark Knight Returns - it was indeed normal Superman. Pick up the series - it's great.

And - um - speaking of confused - YOU also said that Superman starts out with a strength advantage over every version of the Hulk except Savage and Mindless, and the same base strength as Savage. Are you retracting that statement now?

Superman's calm feat (moving between 1/3 and 1/2 the weight of Earth) STILL far outweighs anything Hulk's plate moving, a feat not even unique to Hulk.

You don't exactly seem to have an in depth knowledge of physics, so I'll explain a few things to you. Black holes do NOT have infinite gravitational pull. I don't know where you heard this. Gravity acts over an infinite distance, so if a black hole had infinite gravity, the entire universe would collapse into it. The force of gravity depends on how close you are to the said object, and it's mass.

You don't exactly seem to have an in depth knowledge of physics, so I'll explain a few things to you.

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/BlackHoleAnat.html

"Applying the Einstein Field Equations to collapsing stars, German astrophysicist Kurt Schwarzschild deduced the critical radius for a given mass at which matter would collapse into an infinitely dense state known as a singularity. For a black hole whose mass equals 10 suns, this radius is about 30 kilometers or 19 miles, which translates into a critical circumference of 189 kilometers or 118 miles. "

"the singularity, where matter is crushed to infinite density, the pull of gravity is infinitely strong, and spacetime has infinite curvature."

Consider yourself corrected.

Regardless of what your opinion is, the comic says that it was a miniture black hole. Therefore, it was. A black hole has already collapsed upon itself. That's the definition of a black hole.

*sigh* No, Comic Cube, a black hole hasn't collapsed upon itself. A black hole is a collapsed star. A black hole is destroyed when it no longer has enough mass to sustain itself for any length of time. Get your facts straight. A mini black hole can be microscopic, but for it to last as long as it did in that issue, it would have to be hundreds or thousands of times larger than the minimum threshold of 9 billion tons.

I've since changed my position on that matter. Mindless Hulk never fought Onslaught. Savage Hulk did. In fact, at the beginning of the encounter, Hulk was Professor Hulk. Professor Hulk can't change into Savage Hulk by himself, so Jean used her power to turn him into Savage Hulk.

Now, as I recall Cosmic Cube, you specifically commented on Hulk changing versions while fighting Cable and Storm as evidence of his state change with rage. Are you retracting that?

Jean switched off Banner - that's not Savage Hulk. Banner's influence was totally turned off. That's beyond Savage Hulk, who Cable was able to transform him into during Onslaught without turning off Banner. So there's pretty clearly a difference beween the two.

Whether Jean was the source of the Savage Hulk's rage or not is debatable. Savage Hulk has shown in the past that he can reach such unstoppable states of rage by himself. He has no control over his anger whatsoever. Savage Hulk reaching that level of rage without external influence is not improbable.

What?!?! He has no control over his anger whatsoever??? are you serious? What do you make of all those instances where Savage Hulk is angry and unable to get stronger, then suddenly flips out over some friend of his (Jones, Betty, etc) getting hurt? Hulk reaching that level of rage IS improbable against Superman. Look, it's only happened in specific instances that we can count on one hand. I know you want to hype up Hulk as being Mr. Strong and everything, but you also have to be unbiased and reasonable in your assessments. I'm questioning that.

Here are a few problems with your argument:

1) Superman does not, and cannot attain limitless amounts of strength. There is no infinite source of power that he can draw from.

I've given references in comics that say otherwise. As long as energy exists, he can draw from it. There is infinite energy in the comic universe, when you include all the dimensions - like the one from which Hulk draws his own "infinite" power.

2) Hulk has shown that he can become stronger than opponents far more powerful than himself, without any intervention or outside influence.

No evidence of Hulk doing that quickly without emotional trauma or outside influence. It's always - I repeat - ALWAYS taken some form of trauma for him to jump past his opponent in power. The burden of his showings strongly contradict that statement, CC.

Hulk is like Rocky. Infinite potential, yes, but he requires a montage, a loved one dying and Adrian to reach it. He doesn't get that against Superman the same way Superman doesn't get to sun dip.

3) Superman hasn't shown in the past that without sundipping, he can become as strong as an angry Hulk. Hulk has feats that exceed sun-dipped Supes. Compare the two if you like. If angry Hulk has feats that far exceed Sundipped Supes's feats, what would lead you to believe that Superman's newfound dynamic strength increasing ability (which is clearly less efficient than sundipping,) would increase his strength at the same rate that Hulk increases his strength via anger? It's totally illogical.

It's only illogical because you stated it wrong. CALM Supes was able to push at least 1/3 the mass of the planet. That exceeds angry Hulk feats.

Your entire argument rests on two points that you have yet to prove.

1) That Superman can drain power from a source.

Dark Knight Returns, for starters. Ruin stated Superman was draining energy from the very sun and environment as backup.

2) That Superman starts off stronger than the Hulk.

Funny how you used to agree with this.

You are using one instance that most certainly does not override the consistent showings of Hulk being able to exceed his opponents strength by several folds. Hulk has fought beings like Galaxy Master, Zzax, and countless others, and he has never had a problem exceeding their level of strength, without any sort of plot device.

I've used several battles the Hulk has had in my examples. Don't know why you keep saying "one". I haven't referenced the hour long Thor battle in several pages.

Beings like Galaxy Master and Zzax were energy and durability feats. In countless fights against the likes of Thor, Abomination, Namor, etc. his strength increases have ALWAYS - I repeat - ALWAYS been progressive except for cases where some outside trauma takes place.

The force of attraction between matter and antimatter is infinite. Hulk was able to resist it. This proves that he can exert infinite strength, beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Speaking of harping on a single example. And that feat still doesn't make sense, since there's nothing greater than infinite. Hulk overcoming "infinite" attraction is proof that the attraction isn't infinite, therefore it's not an example of infinite strength. I can't make that any clearer.

And in the end, he was still strong enough to punch the orb into deep space. He showed that his strength supersedes the laws of physics. In all aspects of the word, limitless. Hulk has been said time and time again to have limitless, or infinite potential for strength. He shows a feat that proves it, and you try to downplay it? If that isn't bias, what is it?

It's reason, for one. And two, even then, he wasn't able to continue pulling them apart - the best he was able to do was hold it steady. Punching it millions of miles away, if you read the caption, was as much the inertia of the attraction as it was Hulk's strength. No big feat.

And three - I counter that feat with Hulk being unable to grow stronger than Thor in an hour. If you want to use a ridiculously high feat, I can use a low one in response.

My argument is clearly unbiased. If it were, my blinding love for the Hulk would compel me to say that he wins this fight. But it doesn't. My 'bias' compels me to try and get Hulk the respect he deserves. Respect you aren't giving him.

I have lots of respect for Hulk. Just because I don't think he'd be able to physically overpower Superman doesn't mean I don't respect him. That's fanboy talk, CC - you're better than that.

I'm heading out to DC in a couple of hours, so I won't be able to continue this discussion, so this will make a logical time for me to end things. I guess that gives you the final word on the topic.

Have a great weekend! And don't be so emotional! It's only a debate.

Originally posted by Juntai
Also for the Warworld, when he pushed it, it was moving against him...and was powered up with infinite energy of Imperiex...
That's amped up versions of what is normally already Lightspeed engines... So consider force enough to move a planet... then move a planet at lightspeed... then amp this up with much much much more vast energies of Imperiex.... and it was forcing against Superman, and he still shoved it backwards. Can you calculate that force?

See the mass of energy POURING out of the other side of powered up Warworld?

Excellent scan - it would make my job so much easier if I could scan these issues in. This proves a couple of things. Because the energy of Imperiex is considered "infinite" and Superman was still overpowering it, it shows that sundipped Superman absorbed enough solar energy to allow him to overcome an infinite source of power. It's not proof of base Superman's greater strength, since it's not base Superman, but it's evidence of infinite absorption capacity. And this is from Superman flying through the sun. Superman Prime absorbed it for 15,000 years.

You'll also notice that there was no strain in Superman's voice or actions.

Superman Prime absorbed it for 15,000 years.

Originally posted by Juntai
Actually, he did it for closer to 85 thousand years.
Since it was the 853th century.

He didn't spend the whole time inside the sun, though. He spent centuries exploring the edge of the universe, and I believe they specifically said only 15,000 of those years were in the sun.

But whatever helps my point, lol.

Originally posted by demigawd
He didn't spend the whole time inside the sun, though. He spent centuries exploring the edge of the universe, and I believe they specifically said only 15,000 of those years were in the sun.

But whatever helps my point, lol.

Originally posted by demigawd
I read your "explanation" - I guess Emil's secret fantasy was to be a giant green serpentine monster, huh?

I take exception to that view - a character does not belong to the creator because the character is greater than the creator. The Hulk is the sum total of every writer who has ever written him. If Stan Lee's view of the Hulk's history is different from the Hulk's WRITTEN history, we are obligated to disregard that view - views aren't canon. Peter David, the longest writer of Hulk said that Hulk could beat Galactus. Now we have people like DevilHulk peeing himself running around the boards with "proof" that Hulk > Galactus.

You're twisting my words and you know it, CC. I said you have to gauge the writer's intent, rather than fanboy Hulk scientists making more out of a feat than they should. That has no bearing whatsoever on my statement that Stan Lee's opinion is outweighed by the actual written history of the Hulk. I have no idea how you could make that conclusion.

So now because you deem me "confused" about Superman you disregard evidence? DKR is Dark Knight Returns - it was indeed normal Superman. Pick up the series - it's great.

And - um - speaking of confused - YOU also said that Superman starts out with a strength advantage over every version of the Hulk except Savage and Mindless, and the same base strength as Savage. Are you retracting that statement now?

Superman's calm feat (moving between 1/3 and 1/2 the weight of Earth) STILL far outweighs anything Hulk's plate moving, a feat not even unique to Hulk.

You don't exactly seem to have an in depth knowledge of physics, so I'll explain a few things to you.

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/BlackHoleAnat.html

"Applying the Einstein Field Equations to collapsing stars, German astrophysicist Kurt Schwarzschild deduced the critical radius for a given mass at which matter would collapse into an infinitely dense state known as a singularity. For a black hole whose mass equals 10 suns, this radius is about 30 kilometers or 19 miles, which translates into a critical circumference of 189 kilometers or 118 miles. "

"the singularity, where matter is crushed to infinite density, the [b]pull of gravity is infinitely strong, and spacetime has infinite curvature."

Consider yourself corrected.

*sigh* No, Comic Cube, a black hole hasn't collapsed upon itself. A black hole is a collapsed star. A black hole is destroyed when it no longer has enough mass to sustain itself for any length of time. Get your facts straight. A mini black hole can be microscopic, but for it to last as long as it did in that issue, it would have to be hundreds or thousands of times larger than the minimum threshold of 9 billion tons.

Now, as I recall Cosmic Cube, you specifically commented on Hulk changing versions while fighting Cable and Storm as evidence of his state change with rage. Are you retracting that?

Jean switched off Banner - that's not Savage Hulk. Banner's influence was totally turned off. That's beyond Savage Hulk, who Cable was able to transform him into during Onslaught without turning off Banner. So there's pretty clearly a difference beween the two.

What?!?! He has no control over his anger whatsoever??? are you serious? What do you make of all those instances where Savage Hulk is angry and unable to get stronger, then suddenly flips out over some friend of his (Jones, Betty, etc) getting hurt? Hulk reaching that level of rage IS improbable against Superman. Look, it's only happened in specific instances that we can count on one hand. I know you want to hype up Hulk as being Mr. Strong and everything, but you also have to be unbiased and reasonable in your assessments. I'm questioning that.

I've given references in comics that say otherwise. As long as energy exists, he can draw from it. There is infinite energy in the comic universe, when you include all the dimensions - like the one from which Hulk draws his own "infinite" power.

No evidence of Hulk doing that quickly without emotional trauma or outside influence. It's always - I repeat - ALWAYS taken some form of trauma for him to jump past his opponent in power. The burden of his showings strongly contradict that statement, CC.

Hulk is like Rocky. Infinite potential, yes, but he requires a montage, a loved one dying and Adrian to reach it. He doesn't get that against Superman the same way Superman doesn't get to sun dip. [/B]

The Abomination inwardly thought of himself as a monster, and desired to be stronger than the Hulk. He gets hit by gamma rays, and, bam! He's a monster, and he's stronger than the Hulk. You can't deny that the explaination applies in every case.

Stan Lee originated the concept of the character. Peter David picked up where he left off, and ran with it. So did John Bryne. All pay tribute to Stan Lee's original concept that the Hulk is a product of the imagination. It's explained in Doc Samson's diary, in TIH#393.

I said that you seemed confused because earlier you deemed that Superman coud lift half the weight of the universe. All I wanted was a shred of proof. Thank you.

You continued to say that Superman has a drastic strength advantage over Savage Hulk's base strength. He doesn't.

Superman was struggling like hell to move the Earth, even with the help of Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter. Even so, they barely moved it. Hulk has moved the Earth from it's orbit by himself, with just one punch. I never said Hulk struggled to move the tectonic plate. I was just showing a feat he performed while calm.

I'm not twisting your words. Saying that the attraction between matter and antimatter is not infinite in comic universe is like saying that War World doesn't weigh as much as a real planet. It's simply not a good argument. The written history of the Hulk isn't that his strength is fundamentally limitless? What is it?

Gravity acts over infinite distance. Black holes do NOT exercise infinite gravitational pull. If they did, the universe would be pulled into one. The reason why light can't escape a black hole is because it's escape velocity is too high.

The center of a black hole is a singularity. Black holes don't collapse, and they aren't destroyed. They don't lose mass, they only become more massive. Aside from that, black holes aren't proven to exist. Antimatter is.

Jean did not switch off Banner. She supressed him. As I explained earlier, Mindless Hulk can't talk.

So now Superman can draw solar energy from other dimensions? 🤨

Hulk can become stronger than his opponent without a plot device demi. Read Savage Hulk's fight against Galaxy Master, a being who's comparable to Imperiex Prime in terms of power. The only reason Hulk had to get angrier in that fight was that Galaxy Master thought that he could beat Hulk. And if you ask to Hulk, no one beats Hulk.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube

Read Savage Hulk's fight against Galaxy Master, a being who's comparable to Imperiex Prime in terms of power.

Originally posted by demigawd
It's only illogical because you stated it wrong. CALM Supes was able to push at least 1/3 the mass of the planet. That exceeds angry Hulk feats.

Dark Knight Returns, for starters. Ruin stated Superman was draining energy from the very sun and environment as backup.

Funny how you used to agree with this.

I've used several battles the Hulk has had in my examples. Don't know why you keep saying "one". I haven't referenced the hour long Thor battle in several pages.

Beings like Galaxy Master and Zzax were energy and durability feats. In countless fights against the likes of Thor, Abomination, Namor, etc. his strength increases have ALWAYS - I repeat - ALWAYS been progressive except for cases where some outside trauma takes place.

Speaking of harping on a single example. And that feat still doesn't make sense, since there's nothing greater than infinite. Hulk overcoming "infinite" attraction is proof that the attraction isn't infinite, therefore it's not an example of infinite strength. I can't make that any clearer.

It's reason, for one. And two, even then, he wasn't able to continue pulling them apart - the best he was able to do was hold it steady. Punching it millions of miles away, if you read the caption, was as much the inertia of the attraction as it was Hulk's strength. No big feat.

And three - I counter that feat with Hulk being unable to grow stronger than Thor in an hour. If you want to use a ridiculously high feat, I can use a low one in response.

I have lots of respect for Hulk. Just because I don't think he'd be able to physically overpower Superman doesn't mean I don't respect him. That's fanboy talk, CC - you're better than that.

I'm heading out to DC in a couple of hours, so I won't be able to continue this discussion, so this will make a logical time for me to end things. I guess that gives you the final word on the topic.

Have a great weekend! And don't be so emotional! It's only a debate.

Supes moving 1/3 of the planet doesn't exceed some of Hulk's CALM feats, much less, his angry ones. Hulk as moved the Earth from it's orbit more than once, while calm. So have Thor, and Hercules, to put their powers in perspective.

Juntai already told me. Still, it's not as efficient as sundipping.

I said that Superman is stronger than the Hulk's weaker incarnations. That I will agree with.

Actually, Galaxy Master fought Hulk in his physical form.

Yet again, when heroes fight each other, (especially popular ones, e.g. Spiderman, or Wolverine,) the PIS factor greatly increases. I mean, Hulk can land a hit on Quicksilver, but not Spidey. Why doesn't Hulk just crumple Wolverine up like a ball of aluminum foil, considering that he's proven that he can bend and even break adamantium? Why doesn't Thor just blast Hulk into the oblivion with Mjolnir, rather than slug it out? One answer. Plot induced stupidity. No one wants to read about their favorite hero getting owned.

Use fights from Hulk's actual rouges gallery. You'd be impressed.

I've already explained why the Hulk's strength isn't always limited by the laws of physics, gosh-darnit. That's not the first time he ever did something like that. Heck, the Hulk deflected the Night Crawler's (not the X-Man) sonics and destroyed an entire universe. Hulk once dove into a stream of antimatter and was perfectly fine. Does that mean that Hulk is neither matter, nor antimatter?

It's simple. Hulk isn't always limited by the laws of physics because he isn't a "real" person. He's an imaginary being walking around in the real world.

Originally posted by Juntai
Imperiex was the big bang that created the multiverse, true infinite power spreading in infinite space.

Imperiex wasn't the big bang. In fact, they sent his consciousness BACK to the big bang. Imperiex was the embodiment of enthropy. He was the universe's imperfection.

I'm not so sure about how infinite his power was, either. If it was truely infinite, he could have destroyed the universe with but a thought. Instead, he hatched a plan.

Biggest thing he destroyed was a planet. Galaxy master can attest to destroying billions of those. He's destroyed galaxies.

Honestly, most people don't know more about Hulk than what they've heard, or read on the internet. Demi seems to be one of those people. Everyone wants to believe Hulk is only as powerful as he is in his worst showings. It simply isn't fair.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Imperiex wasn't the big bang. In fact, they sent his consciousness BACK to the big bang. Imperiex was the embodiment of enthropy. He was the universe's imperfection.

I'm not so sure about how infinite his power was, either. If it was truely infinite, he could have destroyed the universe with but a thought. Instead, he hatched a plan.

Biggest thing he destroyed was a planet. Galaxy master can attest to destroying billions of those. He's destroyed galaxies.

A lot of unlearned readers don't believe this to be true, because "Damage was the big bang!" But, this is NOT true, Spectre made Damage the big bang, but this was reverted at the end of that very same comic, where-in after everything was created again they replace defeated Hal's form with Hal BEFORE he erased reality. So Zero Hour was just a memory lapse to the DCU and didn't actually happen.. except to the few people who were there and remember.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Supes moving 1/3 of the planet doesn't exceed some of Hulk's CALM feats, much less, his angry ones. Hulk as moved the Earth from it's orbit more than once, while calm. So have Thor, and Hercules, to put their powers in perspective.

Juntai already told me. Still, it's not as efficient as sundipping.

I said that Superman is stronger than the Hulk's weaker incarnations. That I will agree with.

Actually, Galaxy Master fought Hulk in his physical form.

Yet again, when heroes fight each other, (especially popular ones, e.g. Spiderman, or Wolverine,) the PIS factor greatly increases. I mean, Hulk can land a hit on Quicksilver, but not Spidey. Why doesn't Hulk just crumple Wolverine up like a ball of aluminum foil, considering that he's proven that he can bend and even break adamantium? Why doesn't Thor just blast Hulk into the oblivion with Mjolnir, rather than slug it out? One answer. Plot induced stupidity. No one wants to read about their favorite hero getting owned.

Use fights from Hulk's actual rouges gallery. You'd be impressed.

I've already explained why the Hulk's strength isn't always limited by the laws of physics, gosh-darnit. That's not the first time he ever did something like that. Heck, the Hulk deflected the Night Crawler's (not the X-Man) sonics and destroyed an entire universe. Hulk once dove into a stream of antimatter and was perfectly fine. Does that mean that Hulk is neither matter, nor antimatter?

It's simple. Hulk isn't always limited by the laws of physics because he isn't a "real" person. He's an imaginary being walking around in the real world.

I'm guessing most of these are ancient comics though, and while they don't actually have a "Crisis" in Marvel, defining a moment, they do have lots of retcons making their old feats negated. As such, someone recently posted Hulk saying he can't even breath in space, how can someone who gets punched out by a Skrull and can't breath in space survive in entropy..?
They describe him and his powers more scientifically these days it seems.. last I checked anyways.
Meanwhile many characterss 15..20..25 years ago all did nutzo stuff that didn't even make sense.

Originally posted by Juntai
That's some crazy shit...

I'm guessing most of these are ancient comics though, and while they don't actually have a "Crisis" in Marvel, defining a moment, they do have lots of retcons making their old feats negated. As such, someone recently posted Hulk saying he can't even breath in space, how can someone who gets punched out by a Skrull and can't breath in space survive in entropy..?
They describe him and his powers more scientifically these days it seems.. last I checked anyways.
Meanwhile many characterss 15..20..25 years ago all did nutzo stuff that didn't even make sense.

I know, but they haven't been retconned, so they're in continuity.

Actually, Hulk not being able to breathe in space was retconned. Nothing has happened since Hulk left the pantheon in 1998. Betty isn't dead. He was Savage Banner, in a mental institution all that time. All that was in his mind.

Savage Hulk barely even shows up in comics anymore. But when he does, he usually shows the kind of power that he showed us back in that day.

But don't expect Hulk to destroy any universes any time soon. I doubt they'd ever let that happen again.

Demigawd, I need to tell you this.

Savage Hulk's power often shows to be paradoxical. He can overcome a force that's equal to infinity. Just recently, he showed that he can break out of a force field that reflects 100% of his power back at him, meaning that he can become stronger than himself. This may sound stupid, but logic doesn't really limit his strength, because he doesn't think logically. He's as strong as he believes that he is, which allows him to defy the laws of physics, and even logic. Though at times it may be inconsistant, this is proven time and time again. You'll never see Savage Hulk fail at overcoming any physical force. Magic has been the only thing to stop him so far.

Originally posted by Juntai
That's some crazy shit...

I'm guessing most of these are ancient comics though, and while they don't actually have a "Crisis" in Marvel, defining a moment, they do have lots of retcons making their old feats negated. As such, someone recently posted Hulk saying he can't even breath in space, how can someone who gets punched out by a Skrull and can't breath in space survive in entropy..?
They describe him and his powers more scientifically these days it seems.. last I checked anyways.
Meanwhile many characterss 15..20..25 years ago all did nutzo stuff that didn't even make sense.

The best way I can explain it is that Savage Hulk is sorta like "Pre-crisis" Hulk. Kinda like a Pre-crisis Superman that can't fly, use superspeed, heat vision, or any of the other wacky powers Pre-crisis Supes had. Just strength. Just like Pre-crisis Superman, Savage Hulk is inconsistent, but he's got uber feats of strength that don't even make logical sense, and that no character can match.

Savage Hulk has punched through time, destroyed an entire universe with a thunderclap, shaken the entire multiverse during a fight, resisted the matter-antimatter attraction, survived in concentrated antimatter, and withstood planet destroying blasts with no sweat. The list goes on. God only knows how many times he's destroyed a planet, or knocked the Earth out of it's orbit.

Back in that day, many characters were doing crazy stuff like this. But unlike many of them, Savage Hulk's feats are still in continuity. Hulk hasn't been Savage Hulk in a while, but every once in a while, when Savage Hulk does show up, he lets everybody know that he's still got it.

But I guess that you are right. Feats that Hulk performed as Savage Hulk shouldn't be used in every fight, unless that fight specifies that it's Savage Hulk.