Superman vs. Hulk

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think one of the main problems I have with the whole "reading fast" is the fact that it is a rather unquantifiable "feat". I mean, we don't even know how many books he read, was there a mention about how big the library was? How'd he even KNOW that he read "every medical text ever written"? Was he silly enough to waste time and go ahead to read detailed papers about genetic disorders, psychology, dental, STDs and cancers and other unrelated medical fields while Lane lay dying on the operating table just so he can CLAIM to have read every medical text ever written? Or for that matter, what powers did he use in conjunction with each other in order to achieve what he did other than speed. Fast fingers, special vision powers plus eidetic super-memory would probably be the safest bet. But exactly HOW FAST was he here? Again, unquantifiable and not really sure how it'd apply to a combat situation as we haven't seen him implement these combination of abilities at this level in combat.

We KNOW Superman is fast, I don't think anyone here contends with that fact.

Quantifying the "feat" is the problem here and the fact that these abilities have to be shown in combat at the level they've been demonstrated in order for them to be valid evidence kinda puts a damper on the whole line of logic.

Originally posted by h1a8
that's just a cop out. No need to be lazy. We can easily infer how fast superman can be in combat. Doesn't matter if we can pinpoint exactly how fast. This is because Superman is fighting someone vastly slower. More than 1 magnitude faster is sufficient.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In the second panel. You are being in denial if you think that's not a KO. Banner getting up doesn't mean hulk wasn't KOED. What kind of logic is that?

So you think its an average showing? Good.

It can be used to explain the inconsistencies between these two showings.

If he gets knocked on his ass with eyes closed and all that, he's definitely KOED. You are using his transformations as an excuse to deflect his low showings.

Was Superman KOed when that random atlantian punched him?

Originally posted by JBL
People are not saying that superman is slow. They are saying that supermans combat speed as shown on panel is not light speed and as his on panel combat speed shows, hulk will land big time blows. Until someone show a scan of superman fighting at light speed, he can, will be hit. Trying to use speed as an auto win is a true cop out. Gladiator, hyperion got hit, they have superspeed and gladiator is faster than superman in speed.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
No, it's called "fighting in character" or CIS/CIP. Many characters don't fight using their top-"feat" level abilities. Reasons can vary from different interpretation of abilities from writer to writer or writers putting in "WTF-feats" for plot/fanservice/story reasons (Surfer blowing up a planet, Superman lifting Earth-level weight, Thor hitting Gorr so hard a far away planet starts shattering) to a written-in character self-imposed limitation of the character itself ("doesn't want to kill" as an example).

I think everyone here knows Superman has superspeed.

No when a writer ignores a character's natural ability or natural powers for the sake of the plot then it is called PIS. When Hulk tags someone fast then he does it when they are not using speed at all (the writer ignored it for the sake of the plot).

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think one of the main problems I have with the whole "reading fast" is the fact that it is a rather unquantifiable "feat". I mean, we don't even know how many books he read, was there a mention about how big the library was? How'd he even KNOW that he read "every medical text ever written"? Was he silly enough to waste time and go ahead to read detailed papers about genetic disorders, psychology, dental, STDs and cancers and other unrelated medical fields while Lane lay dying on the operating table just so he can CLAIM to have read every medical text ever written? Or for that matter, what powers did he use in conjunction with each other in order to achieve what he did other than speed. Fast fingers, special vision powers plus eidetic super-memory would probably be the safest bet. But exactly HOW FAST was he here? Again, unquantifiable and not really sure how it'd apply to a combat situation as we haven't seen him implement these combination of abilities at this level in combat.

We KNOW Superman is fast, I don't think anyone here contends with that fact.

Quantifying the "feat" is the problem here and the fact that these abilities have to be shown in combat at the level they've been demonstrated in order for them to be valid evidence kinda puts a damper on the whole line of logic.

So the writer is a liar? He doesn't have the power to create what he wants? Superman read every medical book. Deal with it, Superman hater.

The feat doesn't need to be quantified exactly to know that Superman would be magnitudes faster than Hulk in this fight. No one is claiming an exact number to how fast Superman will be. Because it's irrelevant. We all know that Superman can move 5feet before Hulk moves 1 in. This is a fact. Who cares about things that don't matter?

Originally posted by carver9
@Juggerman...

So you admit, since Hulk recent speed fts poops on anything Juggernaut has done, we can agree that Juggernaut can't touch Hulk if Hulk doesn't allow it?

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes Hulk is hitting Superman in a comic. But this is a forum fight. You know, where there is no writer to ignore a character's powers and abilities for the sake of the plot.

Originally posted by JBL
Reading those book does not equate to combat speed. Those books were not moving at high speed, superman did not have to catch those books or overcome any speed to read them. Those books were not moving at all. When shockwaves came at superman at light speed, he could not avoid them nor perceive them. Fighting and reading are not the same. not even close.

Yes it does. What's faster, throwing a punch or reading a whole page (comprehending) and turning the page? Even humans can throw a punch before they can turn a page without reading.

The feat also proves that Superman can process information very fast. Not just reading fast, but being able to turn the pages, grab another book, put another book back, etc.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Banner gets up literally after transforming which happened as soon as Hulk hit the ice, if that is a ko it must be the quickest I've ever seen. Hulk doesn't revert back to Banner when ko'd either btw.
In the 1st panel Hulk's mouth is closed and his eyes seem to be open. Banner isn't even in the same position as when the Hulk lands as he is in panel 2, and by the 3rd panel he's already on his knees about to stand. There's clearly intended to be movement between the 1st and 3rd panels but lets just throw out context and common sense.

Yes, and a not low showing as you called it. Getting one-shotted by Aquaman would be a lower showing.

We see different obviously. That's how Waid writes the Hulk/Banner dynamic currently, the rest is just you reaching trying to find low showings, even though it's against the rules.

Hulk doesn't revert to banner when he gets KOED? You must've missed literally dozen of instances when that has happened. It was banner who woke up after Hulk reverted back to him when he was KOED.

Superman was punched away from Aquaman. If we're calling that a oneshot, we'd be counting oneshots everytime someone gets knocked away.

And you're trying too hard to rationalize clear knockouts. After Pak's wanking I know its hard for hulk fans but Hulk isn't under Pak anymore.

Originally posted by carver9
Was Superman KOed when that random atlantian punched him?

Originally posted by Mshinu
Lying on your back with limbs limp, eyes closed and mouth open.. even a close up on the face. Pretty much the definition of getting KO`d. Even a sign saying HE`S KNOCKED OUT couldn`t make it any clearer.

Not neccesarily such a bad showing anyway if you think the blast could have killed Tony. An heroic moment for mid herald Hulkie Boy really.

👆

Originally posted by h1a8
that's just a cop out. No need to be lazy. We can easily infer how fast superman can be in combat. Doesn't matter if we can pinpoint exactly how fast. This is because Superman is fighting someone vastly slower. More than 1 magnitude faster is sufficient.

Your entire post is irrelevant to what I said.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman doesn't have to fight anywhere near light speed for Hulk not to tag him. Let's assume that Hulk is bullet speed (more than the highest fighting speed he's ever shown) and Superman can operate at 1% of the speed of light. Then Superman would still be thousands of times faster. Let's assume that Superman can only move 5ft in the same time as Hulk moves 1 in. Now you see that Superman fighting at light speed is irrelevant here?

No when a writer ignores a character's natural ability or natural powers for the sake of the plot then it is called PIS. When Hulk tags someone fast then he does it when they are not using speed at all (the writer ignored it for the sake of the plot).

So the writer is a liar? He doesn't have the power to create what he wants? Superman read every medical book. Deal with it, Superman hater.

The feat doesn't need to be quantified exactly to know that Superman would be magnitudes faster than Hulk in this fight. No one is claiming an exact number to how fast Superman will be. Because it's irrelevant. We all know that Superman can move 5feet before Hulk moves 1 in. This is a fact. Who cares about things that don't matter?

That wasn't really a speed feat. Hulk dropped in, they stopped moving, they got hit by Hulk.

Yes it does. What's faster, throwing a punch or reading a whole page (comprehending) and turning the page? Even humans can throw a punch before they can turn a page without reading.

The feat also proves that Superman can process information very fast. Not just reading fast, but being able to turn the pages, grab another book, put another book back, etc.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's Banner getting up. Hulk was KTFO, its a very old trope of hulk getting knocked out and Banner waking up after that totally confused.

Hulk doesn't revert to banner when he gets KOED? You must've missed literally dozen of instances when that has happened. It was banner who woke up after Hulk reverted back to him when he was KOED.

Superman was punched away from Aquaman. If we're calling that a oneshot, we'd be counting oneshots everytime someone gets knocked away.

And you're trying too hard to rationalize clear knockouts. After Pak's wanking I know its hard for hulk fans but Hulk isn't under Pak anymore.
Did we see him flat on his back with eyes shut?

We didn't see him in a LOT of panels. He was gone bro. I think Aquaman koed him as well.

Sorry, but Hulks speed is a joke when compared to this interdimensional opponent !

Inferred to be faster than Flash

[/URL][/IMG]

Faster than Heat Vision at point blank range !

[/URL][/IMG]

Yet when Supes cranks up the speed

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

And when he tries to hightail it back home only inches from the portal, still gets blitzed !

[/URL][/IMG]

Originally posted by paisapower
Sorry, but Hulks speed is a joke when compared to this interdimensional opponent !

Inferred to be faster than Flash

[/URL][/IMG]

Faster than Heat Vision at point blank range !

[/URL][/IMG]

Yet when Supes cranks up the speed

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

And when he tries to hightail it back home only inches from the portal, still gets blitzed !

[/URL][/IMG]

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Your entire post is irrelevant to what I said.

It's 100% relevant to what you said. You are reaching because you don't want Superman to not be unhittable or win this fight. You are making stuff up that Superman could have used some strange powers other than speed to do the feat.

You are copping out by implying that since the feat can't be quantified then it is unusable for combat speed. In debating we are not lawyers, arguing the letter of the law, but rather we argue what makes sense in the realm of suspension of disbelief. It makes 100% sense to throw a punch within the time frame of reading a whole page and then turning the page.

In fights like this, it doesn't matter exactly how fast Superman can fight when he know he is magnitudes faster than Hulk.
If it takes 2 tons of force to lift a car then arguing whether a feat shows 100tons of force or more, when we know it is much over 2 tons, is irrelevant.

Originally posted by paisapower
Sorry, but Hulks speed is a joke when compared to this interdimensional opponent !

Inferred to be faster than Flash

[/URL][/IMG]

Faster than Heat Vision at point blank range !

[/URL][/IMG]

Yet when Supes cranks up the speed

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

And when he tries to hightail it back home only inches from the portal, still gets blitzed !

[/URL][/IMG]

Context my friend, context. Did you read the book?

Originally posted by JBL
1. He said that the flash could not SNEAK up on him like that NINJA did. Get it? A ninja is known for stealth dude.
As for the rest of your scans? Hulk has see and dealt with similar. Inferred to being faster than flash.LMAO.

A ninja would have Supes constantaly remarking about his speed ?
And be able to dodge HV at point blank? really, LMAO indeed

Originally posted by paisapower
A ninja would have Supes constantaly remarking about his speed ?
And be able to dodge HV at point blank? really, LMAO indeed

KMC says about PIS:

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before

Did superman demonstrate he has super speed + super reaction and perception ?

If the awnser is yes, then, there is no reason to him not use Super speed in a no PIS battle.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
KMC says about PIS:

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

Did superman demonstrate he has super speed + super reaction and perception ?

If the awnser is yes, then, there is no reason to him not use Super speed in a no PIS battle.

Originally posted by paisapower
A ninja would have Supes constantaly remarking about his speed ?
And be able to dodge HV at point blank? really, LMAO indeed

Again, did you read the second part of the fight. Have a lot to do with his face mask.

Superman can read and process alot information in a short time (normal people take at least years to learn about medicine), he can travel in super speed in earth (and not destroys the buildings ), he can search in the planet with super speed, he punched with the speed of sound at least...

but he is unable to avoid punches from Hulk ???

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Superman can read and process alot information in a short time (normal people take at least years to learn about medicine), he can travel in super speed in earth (and not destroys the buildings ), he can search in the planet with super speed, he punched with the speed of sound at least...

but he is unable to avoid punches from Hulk ???