Superman vs. Hulk

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
It's near infinite. Continuously approaching infinity without stopping. Infinity cannot be reached. Essentially, limitless. There's no finite weight that he cannot lift, and no finite force that he cannot resist.

But that's all speculation. We don't KNOW that there's no limit to his strength. I don't believe, for example, that Hulk can ever break the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak. I also don't believe he could ever lift Mjolnir, no matter how angry he becomes. To me, his strength is incalculable in that he hasn't yet reached a known limit- it's impossible to prove that there's NO limit.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Nah. Torchie can get hotter than a Supernova. That type of heat wouldn't warm the Earth. It would sublimate it.

Superman wasn't using his maximum output. And he was MILLIONS of miles away.

Originally posted by Juntai
I disagree. Hulk has never been shown to be far stronger than Superman to me.

What would you say Superman's greatest feat of strength is? Moving the Earth with Diana and Jonn, moving the Moon with Diana and Kyle, or moving War World by himself?

Originally posted by Wynndar
yes they are highly different terms...at least in the scope of this argument. A sun is clearly not infinite...then the tiny fraction of its energy converted to solar energy...that travels all the way to the Earth...then actually gets through our atmosphere...and comes in contact with the surface area of a 6'4", 230lb man is very very finite and readily measurable.

However, the rate and relationship between Hulk's strength and anger has never quantified. Its also the relationship between an abstract concept that cannot be empiracly measured (how angry someone is) and quantifiable concept like physical strength. And there is the fact he has resisted the antimatter-matter attraction...He his extradimensional power source has been called limitless by the pre-retconned Beyonder and was considered a threat that drew the attention of the Living Tribunal once.

The amount of solar energy that he absorbs per any given unit of time is measurable, yes. But the amount of solar energy he CAN absorb is not. It's incalculable. My point is that Superman's cells absorb more and more solar energy as his stress level increases - as long as it's there, he can absorb it. And with no set limit over the course of a battle with no set ending time.

He has broken the crimson bands. Hasnt lifted Mjolnir...he's never attempted to lift it in one of his angrier forms...there are also technicallities that would prevent him from lifting it i.e. he would need to be standing on a surface that was equally strong as Odin's enchantment on the hammer. Thus maybe if he got really mad and kicked Juggernaut's ass, then Thor's ass...and Thor happened to drop Mjolnir on Juggernaut's unconscious body...and Hulk were standing on Juggernaut's chest...and if he were stll mad enough...Then he could probably lift Mjolnir. But while standing on some wooden floorboards? no way he could lift Mjolnir.

Originally posted by demigawd
But that's all speculation. We don't KNOW that there's no limit to his strength. I don't believe, for example, that Hulk can ever break the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak. I also don't believe he could ever lift Mjolnir, no matter how angry he becomes. To me, his strength is incalculable in that he hasn't yet reached a known limit- it's impossible to prove that there's NO limit.

Breaking the bands of Cyttorak and lifting Mjolnir have nothing to do with strength. The bands of Cyttorak can't be broken, unless the spellcaster takes attention away from them. It's not like adamantium. The bands simply do not break. Lifting Mjolnir isn't a matter of strength. If Odin sees you as unworthy, you will be unable to lift it, no matter how strong you are. Strength doesn't override magic.

Actually, it is quite possible to prove that Hulk's strength has no limit. Resisting the attraction between matter and antimatter proves that there is no limit to the Hulk's strength. Ask Whirlysplatt, the physics guy. Even he says it's bad writing. 😄

😉

Originally posted by demigawd
The amount of solar energy that he absorbs per any given unit of time is measurable, yes. But the amount of solar energy he CAN absorb is not. It's incalculable. My point is that Superman's cells absorb more and more solar energy as his stress level increases - as long as it's there, he can absorb it. And with no set limit over the course of a battle with no set ending time.

I am asking for substantiation of this claim.

He's never broken the bands. He was bound by it twice, and no matter how angry he got, he couldn't break them. The first time, he instead started jumping around like a mad imp and caused so much damage that it forced Strange to let him go so Hulk wouldn't destroy the planet.

The second time, he created a huge distraction that caused Strange to release the bands.

Hulk's destruction of a huge asteroid isn't a function of his "infinite" strength, because he was in his Grey form and he was calm. That can't count. His other feats are impressive, but he battled Thor for an hour and never gained a strength advantage. An hour of getting angrier and he can't surpass Thor?

Originally posted by demigawd
But that's all speculation. We don't KNOW that there's no limit to his strength. I don't believe, for example, that Hulk can ever break the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak. I also don't believe he could ever lift Mjolnir, no matter how angry he becomes. To me, his strength is incalculable in that he hasn't yet reached a known limit- it's impossible to prove that there's NO limit.

hulk can't lift thor's hammer because it's blessed with the odinforce only pepople who can break that enchantment or is worthy enough can lift it.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Breaking the bands of Cyttorak and lifting Mjolnir have nothing to do with strength. The bands of Cyttorak can't be broken, unless the spellcaster takes attention away from them. It's not like adamantium. The bands simply do not break. Lifting Mjolnir isn't a matter of strength. If Odin sees you as unworthy, you will be unable to lift it, no matter how strong you are. Strength doesn't override magic.

Actually, it is quite possible to prove that Hulk's strength has no limit. Resisting the attraction between matter and antimatter proves that there is no limit to the Hulk's strength. Ask Whirlysplatt, the physics guy. Even he says it's bad writing. 😄

😉

It has everything to do with strength....if he's strong enough, he should be able to overcome ANY physical obstacle. That includes breaking adamantium, breaking the bands of cytorrak, stopping juggernaut and lifting Mjolnir.

As for substantiation....hold on! I have to wait until I'm home.

Originally posted by demigawd
He's never broken the bands. He was bound by it twice, and no matter how angry he got, he couldn't break them. The first time, he instead started jumping around like a mad imp and caused so much damage that it forced Strange to let him go so Hulk wouldn't destroy the planet.

The second time, he created a huge distraction that caused Strange to release the bands.

Hulk's destruction of a huge asteroid isn't a function of his "infinite" strength, because he was in his Grey form and he was calm. That can't count. His other feats are impressive, but he battled Thor for an hour and never gained a strength advantage. An hour of getting angrier and he can't surpass Thor?

The bands can't be broken unless the spellcaster is distracted. Mjolnir can't be lifted by someone who's unworthy. It's not that it's too heavy for them to lift. It simply cannot be lifted. Hulk's strength does not override magic. The Laws of Physics are another matter.

Resisting the attraction between matter and antimatter proves that Hulk has limitless strenght.

erm

when was this an hour of battling Thor was this part of the defenders/avengers war because they weren't battling and what shows that he was getting angry as i remeber they fought for a few panel then went into a hold, test of strength/balance etc.

Originally posted by demigawd
It has everything to do with strength....if he's strong enough, he should be able to overcome ANY physical obstacle. That includes breaking adamantium, breaking the bands of cytorrak, stopping juggernaut and lifting Mjolnir.

As for substantiation....hold on! I have to wait until I'm home.

PHYSICAL Obstacle. The Bands of Cyttorak are like concentrated manifestations of Cyttorak's magic. Galactus couldn't break free of them. Mjolnir is fastened to the ground by Odin's magic. Neither require strength to overcome. Strength is futile. Magic is overcome by magic.

Hulk has broken, bent, etc. PURE adamantium.

But if he has INFINITE strength, then there's no feat that cannot be accomplished - that includes becoming strong enough to override magical enhancements. It is INFINITE, after all. 😂

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
erm

when was this an hour of battling Thor was this part of the defenders/avengers war because they weren't battling and what shows that he was getting angry as i remeber they fought for a few panel then went into a hold, test of strength/balance etc.

Yeah that test of strength went on for an HOUR, and Hulk couldn't overcome Thor.

Originally posted by demigawd
But if he has INFINITE strength, then there's no feat that cannot be accomplished - that includes becoming strong enough to override magical enhancements. It is INFINITE, after all. 😂

as Celestals <Cubes < Skyfather

Originally posted by kgkg
there are level of infinity.

as Celestals <Cubes < Skyfather

Exactly. If there are levels of infinity, then it's not really infinite, is it? It's all incalculable. We can't prove that ANYTHING is infinite

Originally posted by demigawd
Yeah that test of strength went on for an HOUR, and Hulk couldn't overcome Thor.

Resisting the matter-antimatter attraction proves everything, demi.

That one instance proves nothing. Can you recall which incarnation it was?

1.no sign of hulk becoming more angry
2. this is thor rigth he's done this type of thing alot of times in his day being a warrior and all.

Originally posted by demigawd
Exactly. If there are levels of infinity, then it's not really infinite, is it? It's all incalculable. We can't prove that ANYTHING is infinite

That's getting into the cosmic entity yadda-yadda. Let's not go there.

Hulk's strength isn't infinite. The only non-uber-cosmic person with truely infinite strength would be the holder of the infinity Power Gem.

It's NEAR infinite. Meaning it increases towards infinity, forever, never reaching it. He might struggle to lift it when he first tries, but if he gets angry, he will lift it. What's so hard to fathom?