Superman vs. Hulk

Resisting the matter antimatter attraction is a feat that would supercede lifting the weight of the universe, demi. The force of attraction between matter and antimatter is fundamentally infinite, so for Hulk to hold them apart, then punch one of them into deep space, creating a star, is the single greatest feat of strength in the history of comics.

Hulk's strength is limitless. Savage Hulk has proven that his strength can increase by an infinite magnitude at any given time, simply by becoming angry. It depends upon how much strength he requires.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Resisting the matter-antimatter attraction proves everything, demi.

That one instance proves nothing. Can you recall which incarnation it was?

It was Savage Hulk

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
1.no sign of hulk becoming more angry
2. this is thor rigth he's done this type of thing alot of times in his day being a warrior and all.

When did we see Hulk getting angrier and angrier when resisting the matter-antimatter attraction? The assumption was that he just did it. You can't show somebody getting infinitely angry. You put a frown on their face and be done with it. Hulk had an hour to surpass Thor's strength....he couldn't do it. Hulk is too tempermental to let an hour go by while he stays calm. C'mon now. He just couldn't do it.

That one instance is a counter to the matter-anti-matter thing, which is also one instance. There are others. The truth is likely somewhere in-between.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That's getting into the cosmic entity yadda-yadda. Let's not go there.

Hulk's strength isn't infinite. The only non-uber-cosmic person with truely infinite strength would be the holder of the infinity Power Gem.

It's NEAR infinite. Meaning it increases towards infinity, forever, never reaching it. He might struggle to lift it when he first tries, but if he gets angry, he will lift it. What's so hard to fathom?

We're arguing minute details. We both agree that Hulk's strength is dynamic and increases with rage with no measured limit. We'll leave it at that. The task now falls to me to prove that Superman now has dynamic strength as well

Originally posted by demigawd
It was Savage Hulk

When did we see Hulk getting angrier and angrier when resisting the matter-antimatter attraction? The assumption was that he just did it. You can't show somebody getting infinitely angry. You put a frown on their face and be done with it. Hulk had an hour to surpass Thor's strength....he couldn't do it. Hulk is too tempermental to let an hour go by while he stays calm. C'mon now. He just couldn't do it.

That one instance is a counter to the matter-anti-matter thing, which is also one instance. There are others. The truth is likely somewhere in-between.

We're arguing minute details. We both agree that Hulk's strength is dynamic and increases with rage with no measured limit. We'll leave it at that. The task now falls to me to prove that Superman now has dynamic strength as well

Not "no measured limit." No limit whatsoever. Spiderman teased Hulk to get him to hold apart the orbs. Hulk's strength is not necessarily directly proportional to his anger. Hulk becoming angry could result in an infinite magnitude of strength increase, as it did when he resisted the matter-antimatter attraction.

I have also shown that Hulk has performed greater feats of strength than Superman. Can you attest to that?

Originally posted by demigawd
But if he has INFINITE strength, then there's no feat that cannot be accomplished - that includes becoming strong enough to override magical enhancements. It is INFINITE, after all. 😂

That doesn't logically follow.

If the magic is resistant to strength, then any amount of strength is the same as any other amount.

Originally posted by demigawd
Exactly. If there are levels of infinity, then it's not really infinite, is it? It's all incalculable. We can't prove that ANYTHING is infinite

ok did you find the issue yet?

And, and here we go!

Adventures of Superman #636. Ruin reports to Luthor that Superman's solar absorption isn't actually passive, it's active and increases as Superman's stress level increases, increasing his strength in the process.

As for Superman's greatest feat of strength - it wasn't moving a planet. It was holding a blackhole. You want to talk about infinite? A blackhole contains a singularity within it of INFINITE MASS. Superman was able to hold it. So THERE - Superman has an infinite strength feat too.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
That doesn't logically follow.

If the magic is resistant to strength, then any amount of strength is the same as any other amount.

Thank you. Hence Cyttorak's enchantment.

Originally posted by demigawd
And, and here we go!

Adventures of Superman #636. Ruin reports to Luthor that Superman's solar absorption isn't actually passive, it's active and increases as Superman's stress level increases, increasing his strength in the process.

As for Superman's greatest feat of strength - it wasn't moving a planet. It was holding a blackhole. You want to talk about infinite? A blackhole contains a singularity within it of INFINITE MASS. Superman was able to hold it. So THERE - Superman has an infinite strength feat too.

I never doubted that part. I want to see where anyone proves, or even implies that Superman can absorb limitless amounts of solar energy.

GL helped him, and it wasn't a real black hole. Even if it was a regular black hole, resisting the matter antimatter attraction still surpasses that feat.

Black Holes do not have infinite mass demi.

Also, Superman's strength potential was said to be infinite in the "No Limits!" storyline in OWAW.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
GL helped him, and it wasn't a real black hole. Even if it was a regular black hole, resisting the matter antimatter attraction still surpasses that feat.

Black Holes do not have infinite mass demi.

How does it surpass that feat? In both cases...it's INFINITE. GL only helped Superman contain it, Superman held it on his own.

You guys do realize that black holes are just a theory right?

And a blackhole most certainly is infinitely heavy. At the center of a blackhole is a quantum singularity. A singularity is defined as an object of infinite density.

Originally posted by demigawd

When did we see Hulk getting angrier and angrier when resisting the matter-antimatter attraction? The assumption was that he just did it. You can't show somebody getting infinitely angry. You put a frown on their face and be done with it. Hulk had an hour to surpass Thor's strength....he couldn't do it. Hulk is too tempermental to let an hour go by while he stays calm. C'mon now. He just couldn't do it.

That one instance is a counter to the matter-anti-matter thing, which is also one instance. There are others. The truth is likely somewhere in-between.

Hulk and Thor's strength were obviously equal for an hour, for some reason of another. If Hulk were weaker than Thor, Thor would have overcome him. That's really not a good example. At other times, Hulk has left Thor beaten and bruised, hollering "Dos't the beast's strength know no limits?!"

No, Thor. It 'dost' not.

Now we're taking averages? Hmm... what's the average of 150,000,000,000 tons and infinity... Whoops. Calculator error.

It's infinity, demi.

Originally posted by demigawd
And a blackhole most certainly is infinitely heavy. At the center of a blackhole is a quantum singularity. A singularity is defined as an object of infinite density.

No, it's not infinitely heavy. It doesn't have infinite mass, either. It has an extremely high escape velocity, which increases as it becomes more massive. It black holes were infinitely massive, considering the fact that gravity operates over infinite range, the universe would be a black hole.

Black holes are massive, but not infinitely so. I'm sure that synthetic, miniture black holes are much lighter and easier to handle than the phenomena that occur in deep space.

Originally posted by demigawd
And a blackhole most certainly is infinitely heavy. At the center of a blackhole is a quantum singularity. A singularity is defined as an object of infinite density.

Infinite density is not infinite mass.

Originally posted by demigawd
Also, Superman's strength potential was said to be infinite in the "No Limits!" storyline in OWAW.

I'll have to check that out. Any info?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Hulk and Thor's strength were obviously equal for an hour, for some reason of another. If Hulk were weaker than Thor, Thor would have overcome him. That's really not a good example. At other times, Hulk has left Thor beaten and bruised, hollering "Dos't the beast's strength know no limits?!"

No, Thor. It 'dost' not.

Now we're taking averages? Hmm... what's the average of 150,000,000,000 tons and infinity... Whoops. Calculator error.

It's infinity, demi.

I never said Hulk was weaker than Thor. I said that Hulk was unable to become stronger than Thor after an hour. So much for infinite strength.

I also didn't say do a mathematical average, smartass, lol. I said the truth is likely somewhere in between. I'd say that his inability to become stronger than Thor mitigates the matter/anti-matter attraction the way Spider-Man being Firelord is trumped by Spider-Man losing to Wolverine.

Hulk had to beg Thor to put his hammer away. Too bad he couldn't become strong enough to overcome it, huh?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Infinite density is not infinite mass.

Yeah, you know, I realized that after I posted it. I forgot that there's a mass calculator for blackholes. Small blackholes weigh only a few thousand million tonnes. 😂

Either way, I've provided references that state the retcon that Superman now has dynamic strength and it's infinite. So to me, strength is a moot issue between them.

Superman's solar energy storage is a biological process. Unless Superman has an infinite number of cells in his body, how can he absorb infinite amounts of solar energy?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I'll have to check that out. Any info?

Can't remember specifics, other than the issue stated that Superman's potential to absorb solar energy is without limit. I'll try to get you specfics later today.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Superman's solar energy storage is a biological process. Unless Superman has an infinite number of cells in his body, how can he absorb infinite amounts of solar energy?

The same way Hulk gets infinitely mad, I suppose. 😉