Scarlet Witch (current) vs. Phoenix Force Jean

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I thought the premise of Jean = Phoenix was that Jean has always been Phoenix.

Phoenix helped create the multiverse. . . Jean is of a certain age. . .

I can understand them BECOMING one. . . but she would have to have been specifically created by the phoenix force . . and like a seeing eye dog lives a life with a family for a time aquireing life expereinces becfore the force claimed it's shell. . .

Sort of like the island. . .

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
At the end of the day Phoenix collapses reality under its own power, and then creates it all from scratch . She does that cyclically. Wandas powerful but her powers have never directly affected anything beyong the 616 reality. Her inexperience resulted in a chaos wave which went on to affect the multiverse. Big deal!! Phoenix collapsese reality herself and the Stranger sought her power to make him the supreme being of creation by using her to collapse all that is and create a new existence with him emerging supreme.

The Stranger only sought HER power because Wanda wasn't available.

All under her own power, therefore beyond Wanda.

You don't know that Phoenix destroys reality without the use of a chaos wave. There's never been a description of how Phoenix destroys a reality. All we know is that it's just one reality at a time. That no better than Wanda, and given that Phoenix needs the M'Kraan Crystal to affect multiple realities, I'd say it's far worse.

Even Jean reforming and repairing 616 in the palm of her hand on a whim is beyond wanda. Plus theres the fact that she amputated the timeline showing shes not restricted to reality.

Wanda matches that just by changing the timeline of 616. In fact, in doing so, she UNDID what Phoenix did.

Originally posted by demigawd
Wanda matches that just by changing the timeline of 616.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So legion...

Originally posted by Creshosk
To time travel. That's all.

But the using of it is what caused the break. You're not supposed to use the M'Kraan Crystal to time travel - when you do, it breaks and leaves a rift. That was problem #1.

Or prevent the phoenix saga from occuring.

No, that's problem #2.

Problem #1 happening on its own is ok, because the Phoenix is around to help.

Problem #2 happening on its own is ok, because the M'Kraan Crystal is in sound condition.

Problem #1 + Problem #2 = BIG PROBLEM.

Legion was the unlucky chap who caused both.

So is anybody else who can timetravel.

No, because they'd just cause problem #2.

He slew Xavier, thus preventing the phoenix saga under his own power.

Which caused problem #2. Problem #1 was caused by abusing the M'Kraan Crystal.

I'm still confused.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He split a timeline by killing 616 Charles Xavier which resulted in the Crystal etc. He didn't alter a reality as a whole under his own power.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Sure he did, he slew xavier under his own power.

Let me put it to you this way. If Dr. Doom went back in time and killed Xavier at the exact time and place Legion did, instead of Legion, the omniverse wouldn't have been threatened, because problem #1 would never have been an issue.

Originally posted by demigawd
But the using of it is what caused the break. You're not supposed to use the M'Kraan Crystal to time travel - when you do, it breaks and leaves a rift. That was problem #1.

No, that's problem #2.

Problem #1 happening on its own is ok, because the Phoenix is around to help.

Problem #2 happening on its own is ok, because the M'Kraan Crystal is in sound condition.

Problem #1 + Problem #2 = BIG PROBLEM.

Legion was the unlucky chap who caused both.

No, because they'd just cause problem #2.

Which caused problem #2. Problem #1 was caused by abusing the M'Kraan Crystal.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, altering my post was real funny. ¬¬

Originally posted by Creshosk
Sure he did, he slew xavier under his own power.

Originally posted by demigawd
Let me put it to you this way. If Dr. Doom went back in time and killed Xavier at the exact time and place Legion did, instead of Legion, the omniverse wouldn't have been threatened, because problem #1 would never have been an issue.

Doom just destroyed the multiverse.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Slaying Xavier in itself isn't enough.

For some reason you guys are discarding this event.

As did Wanda when she remade reality.

Furthermore, Wanda altered reality to her precise specifications. Legion is unable to do that. He changed the timeline by changing an event in the timeline and hoping it works out. He had no power beyond the effects of the event he changed. Wanda went FAR beyond that by changing EVERY event in the timeline to be exactly the way she wants. Surely you see the difference here.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
As did Wanda when she remade reality.

Originally posted by demigawd
Furthermore, Wanda altered reality to her precise specifications. Legion is unable to do that. He changed the timeline by changing an event in the timeline and hoping it works out. He had no power beyond the effects of the event he changed. Wanda went FAR beyond that by changing EVERY event in the timeline to be exactly the way she wants. Surely you see the difference here.

The prevention of jean from becoming one with the phoenix force is a multiversal cataclysmic event.

Any timetravler can do that. 🙄

Except she doesn't need the Crystal. She works beyond the Crystal. She can remake reality to her specifications circumventing any consequences due to the Crystal. If she breaks it she can fix it in her designs. Jean Grey was never an X-Woman and never fixed the Crystal but the M'Kraan Crystal never needed a Jean Grey to fix it because it was never broken, because Wanda didn't want it to be.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Ah so legion time traveling is what caused the Crystal to need to be repaired during the phoenix saga. 🙄

No, none of the events of the Phoenix Saga took place - including D'Ken breaking the Crystal. The Crystal problem was caused by Legion. Legion took D'Ken's place in causing the break. That's why D'ken never became God in the absence of Phoenix trying to stop him. The death of Xavier caused events within the Sh'iar Empire to transpire differently.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Except she doesn't need the Crystal. She works beyond the Crystal. She can remake reality to her specifications circumventing any consequences due to the Crystal. If she breaks it she can fix it in her designs.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And you still missed the point. 🙄

The prevention of jean from becoming one with the phoenix force is a multiversal cataclysmic event.

Any timetravler can do that. 🙄

No, YOU'RE missing the point.

Preventing Jean from becoming Phoenix isn't enough to cause multiversal destruction. The Crystal also has to be damaged. Unless both take place, either individually isn't enough.

🙄 sure . . .