Scarlet Witch (current) vs. Phoenix Force Jean

Started by demigawd26 pages

Think about it logically for a second. Let's just run things through its natural course.

Emperor D'Ken is the dude who broke the Crystal in 616, right? Right.
Phoenix stopped him and fixed the Crystal, right? Right.

If Phoenix hadn't stopped D'Ken, he would have taken over the multiverse, right? Right.

Shortly thereafter, the multiverse would have collapsed, right? Right.

In AOA, why wasn't all reality lorded over by D'Ken? Because he never became God, so for whatever reason, he was stopped before taking over the M'Kraan Crystal and using it for his twisted purposes, right? Right.

And yet the Crystal is broken. How, if D'ken didn't do it?

Legion.

Follow?

Originally posted by demigawd
Think about it logically for a second. Let's just run things through its natural course.

Emperor D'Ken is the dude who broke the Crystal in 616, right? Right.
Phoenix stopped him and fixed the Crystal, right? Right.

If Phoenix hadn't stopped D'Ken, he would have taken over the multiverse, right? Right.

Shortly thereafter, the multiverse would have collapsed, right? Right.

In AOA, why wasn't all reality lorded over by D'Ken? Because he never became God, so for whatever reason, he was stopped before taking over the M'Kraan Crystal and using it for his twisted purposes, right? Right.

And yet the Crystal is broken. How, if D'ken didn't do it?

Legion.

Follow?

So if just jean was eliminated then the other event involving Xavier could still happen.

So leigon still almost destroyed the multiverse, and any other timetraveler could just bump jean grey off.

This being all moot considering there's a difference between doing something due to your own power and causing changes in time that lead to an effect.

The Crystal was fractured and the Legion killed someone significant in the timeline, Xavier. It led to possible cataclysm. That doesn't make him as powerful as Wanda because it wasn't of his own power. He didn't even reshape that earth let alone reality under his own power.

If I make a time machine and go back in time and mess around with time by killing important people, if I kill 616 Xavier and Jean, and the Crystal get's fractured as well and no one is there to fix it causing cataclysm. It doesn't mean I of my own power can cause said destruction.

This isn't raising Legion or timetravellers in general up to Scarlet Witch's level. Nor is it denigrating SW down to theirs. Legions powers are nowhere near those exhibited by the Scarlet Witch. You're arguing for the sake of argument and this is a circular argument.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So if just jean was eliminated then the other event involving Xavier could still happen.

You mean if someone went back in time and killed Jean instead of Xavier? If it doesn't alter D'Ken's plans somehow in the process, then yes, it WOULD set off a wave of destruction that would be unchecked, and D'Ken would take over the multiverse. But time is a very delicate thing - any change could cause any number of other changes. It's not a guarantee. There are a lot of realities in which Jean died. Or never existed. But somehow, there's never been a reality in which both Jean never became Phoenix AND D'Ken broke the Crystal. Go figure.


So leigon still almost destroyed the multiverse, and any other timetraveler could just bump jean grey off.

Um...not sure what you're trying to say, but...maybe? That's the thing about going back in time to change the future...you don't know what you're going to get. But if you change the present and retroactively change the past to fit (like Wanda did), you know exactly what you're going to get - you pre-ordaned it. That's the difference between Wanda and a time-traveler.

Originally posted by demigawd
All I'm saying is that Wanda has the ability to effect the omniverse simply by peeling back layers of creation. The tear in creation is evidence of that. Put the whole chaos wave thing aside for a second - Wanda's power stretches across the multiverse. Its effects, the changing of people across the multiverse, is not a side effect of the chaos wave. It's the effect of Wanda's power. The realities being destroyed, on the other hand....chaos wave.

Roma said the wave was ending rational existence disrupting reality. She also said that the chaos wave was originating from an altered earth and it was that that had swept through Otherworld and other realities. There was no mention of Wandas power sweeping through affecting things, just the chaos wave so that is speculation Demi and its not supported by Romas on panel analysis of the situation.

Originally posted by demigawd
How is it terrible logic? In both cases, all creation is threatened. In the case of the IG, LT didn't interfere because he felt it was the natural order of things for Eternity to be replaced - it wasn't the end of creation the way it is. the threat of a torn M'Kraan Crystal are identical to the threat of Wanda. Yet suddenly it's not in Phoenix's "jurisdiction" to stop a threat to CREATION? Oh, but it's in Phoenix's "jurisdiction" to stop sentient bacteria, like some sort of cosmic Listerine! LOL! I hope you're kidding me, GS.

I cant explain Phoenixes absence although endsong being stated to be the last phoenix story for a long time has a big thing to do with it obviously. Abraxas also threatened the multiverse, he disrupted the natural order yet neither Phoenix or LT showed up to stop him. It was left to the heroes. As for Sublime, it was preventing the progress of evolution and therefore was halting the creation life cycle which phoenix collapses with beings transcending and becoming a part of creation. Wandas actions arent preventing this cycle shes merely shaping reality to her whim. As for the M'kraan crystal no other being can contain the power of the crystal. Phoenix is connected to it. Its the Crown hence the reason why she needs it. Even if Wanda was halting the cycle Wanda will be stopped by the heroes being beyond reality this is foreseen by my b*tch just like the events of the Here Comes Tomorrow arc were foreseen (as she talked about them before) and so she knew she had to die. In New Xmen 154 Jean foresaw the future for her friends if she didnt heal 616 so dhe did.

Originally posted by demigawd
Phoenix needed to repair the M'Kraan Crystal to prevent reality from being undone. She was unable to just "blink" it back to normal. What that shows is that the tear in reality was NOT fixable by Phoenix under her own power. She needed to fix the Crystal, which in turn stopped the chaos waves and repair the tear in reality. Wanda, on the other hand, affected the fabric of creation of her own power. No Crystal necessary. That's beyond Phoenix, who needed to fix the Crystal to fix reality.

The crystal contains the Crown. You cant get rid of it. Its an integral part of existence a gateway to the crown, the omega point. Therefore that does not show a tear in reality cannot be fixed by phoenix. Thats ridiculous when phoenix repaired the 616 reality and is responsible for the creation of the multiverse anyway. Wanda wouldnt be able to fix the crystal or do away with it. You're bsically saying phoenix is rubbish because it had to fix the omega point (which you find to be absurd logic if you knew what it is lol ). Opal refers to this tear in reality as a " infected brane" a cancer in reality. Very similar to the rupture in reality caused by Bubonicus to Eternity in Guardians of the galaxy 35 which a certain firebird sealed up lol.

Originally posted by demigawd
No - she altered Otherworld too. That wasn't the Chaos wave you saw, that was her power extending beyond 616. Xmarksthespot already described that.

Have you actually read it or are you going by what other say? The wave which ripped through otherworld wasnt Wandas power but the chaos wave. I'll post scans tomorrow (remind me)

Originally posted by demigawd
We don't know that. She can't even exist without being "activated" somehow. She can't even be in two places at once. "Consuming creation in fire" doesn't say much about the mechanisms involved.

What do you mean she cant exist without being activated? Well thats rubbish. Also considering there are phoenix hosts throughout creation that points rubbish as well.

Originally posted by demigawd
Common sense dictates that she wouldn't have gotten all panicky about the Crystal breaking if she could just will everything back to normal. It's obviously beyond her power to do without the Crystal. You really can't see that? C'mon, now.

To fix a hole in reality isnt beyond phoenix come on Demi think boy. Even Opal Luna can sort out a hole with her Otherworld machinery as you'd know if you actually read the comic we're debating about lol. The crystal is just integral to existence, something Wanda couldnt exist without. Thats why it was vital she fixed it.

Originally posted by demigawd
Eternity represents a single universe, which further shows that the Phoenix operates at only a universal level. She CAN'T operate at a multiversal level, which is why she couldn't exist in AOA.

Do you know what a multiverse is Demi? After a core universe is created oover time vibrational differences between atoms cause alternate universes to spring from the core one, (616) over time creating a multiverse. Multiverses are created over time from a core universe. The marvel multiverse originates from Phoenix. Ok?

Demi think out of the box please. Please think about when AOA was written. It was during the retcon period when Jean and Phoenix were seperate which explains why the crystal was a problem in AOA.

The fact that there are phoenix hosts throughout the multiverse renders your statement void im afraid son lol. If you read the AOA one shot this year you'd know that phoenix was in AOA. Keep up with your reading it helps in debates. There is one phoenix (Jean being the closest the force has to a human form) who operates across the multiverse in host bodies hence the Phoenix corps in New Xmen

Originally posted by demigawd
Except it doesn't.

Except it does. Your understanding was just flawed lol

Originally posted by demigawd
Shaping a SINGLE reality. Not a multiverse. Wanda did the same thing casually, and then extended it to Otherworld. She tore through creation, which Phoenix can only do with the Crystal.

That was done on a whim and is beyond anything Wandas done directly with her powers. Have you not read my posts. I remembered Xmen forever and told you that Phoenix collapses reality under its own power (something thats beyond wanda) and it creates existence from scratch (again beyond Wanda) I'll post the uncanny scans 2morrow which show it was the chaos wave running through Otherworld. With them you'll see that wandas power and influence are restricted to 616 and therefore as always phoenix wins. 😉

Its bed time for me. Make sure you guys are on 2morrow

Reality 616 is a "brane" GS. Saturnyne refers to the realities in general as branes. The altered reality in itself is the "cancer".

Blink is one fine purple thingy.

Yes, Chris. Yes she is.

Oh and the initial destruction on Otherworld is basically uncontrolled reality alteration doing things like bringing Jaspers back to life. It happens concurrent and due to the white flash of Wanda's powers. Spillover from her alteration of reality 616 which is how I have described it. If you want to call it a chaos wave that's fine. The actual chaos wave that Roma and Saturnyne refer to is a secondary effect that's going to sweep along the sidereal string from brane 616 to affect and destroy the other branes. It's something that's going to happen which is why Roma gives them time to try and fix the cause the tear. She waits at the repaired machine watching the clock.

And obviously Wanda can affect and alter the Crystal considering there were no X-Men or 616 Jean Grey to fix the Crystal yet no cataclysm occured.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Roma said the wave was ending rational existence disrupting reality. She also said that the chaos wave was originating from an altered earth and it was that that had swept through Otherworld and other realities. There was no mention of Wandas power sweeping through affecting things, just the chaos wave so that is speculation Demi and its not supported by Romas on panel analysis of the situation.

Wanda's influence had clearly extended to Otherworld willingly if it lifted several Otherworld characters (like Brian and Meggan) and suddenly placed them in 616 in positions of power in England, even restoring Brian's Captain Britain title from Kelsey Leigh - OVERRIDING Roma's power in the process. If that's not multiversal reach, I don't know what is.


I cant explain Phoenixes absence although endsong being stated to be the last phoenix story for a long time has a big thing to do with it obviously. Abraxas also threatened the multiverse, he disrupted the natural order yet neither Phoenix or LT showed up to stop him.

He threatened to take it over, not destroy it entirely. As LT himself said, he doesn't care about the transfer of power, just that the multiverse as a whole is preserved. The destruction of all creation that Wanda will cause is identical in scope to the threat of the M'Kraan Crystal. But it seems Phoenix can only act if Phoenix is alive. Phoenix is not. Not very omnipotent if you ask me, GS. 🙁


It was left to the heroes. As for Sublime, it was preventing the progress of evolution and therefore was halting the creation life cycle which phoenix collapses with beings transcending and becoming a part of creation.

Oh, ok. And to think, Wanda only threatens the continued existence of ALL CREATION. Good thing she's not a threat to evolution, like Sublime, otherwise Phoenix really would have brought down the hammer on her ass....


Wandas actions arent preventing this cycle shes merely shaping reality to her whim.

Except for that whole destruction of the omniverse part....


As for the M'kraan crystal no other being can contain the power of the crystal. Phoenix is connected to it. Its the Crown hence the reason why she needs it. Even if Wanda was halting the cycle Wanda will be stopped by the heroes being beyond reality this is foreseen by my b*tch just like the events of the Here Comes Tomorrow arc were foreseen (as she talked about them before) and so she knew she had to die. In New Xmen 154 Jean foresaw the future for her friends if she didnt heal 616 so dhe did.

So she decided that getting rid of Sublime is something worth her time to prevent her friends from having a crappy future, but stopping Wanda "destroying creation" Maximoff wasn't? Phoenix is denser than you are if that's the case. 😆


Thats ridiculous when phoenix repaired the 616 reality and is responsible for the creation of the multiverse anyway.

And yet isn't present for anything when Jean is dead. So the moral of this story is - if you don't want the Phoenix to f*ck up your plans, kill Jean, then proceed to destroy the multiverse.

Wow, GS, you've convinced me - your b*tch is the easiest omnipotent being to nullify in all of comics


Wanda wouldnt be able to fix the crystal or do away with it.

That's ok - neither could Phoenix. You're the expert, and you're telling me that you forgot that Phoenix could NOT fix the M'Kraan Crystal on her own? Phoenix "didn't have the power" to repair reality. She needed two human anchors, and even then couldn't repair it. She needed the entire team's lifeforce. She created the multiverse and couldn't fix it on her own? She needed BOTH the Crystal AND a bunch of lifeforces to fix a little tear in reality? 😖ick:

This isn't a very good resume for your b*tch, I'm afraid. 🙁

So so far we have Wanda = Phoenix M'Kraan Crystal X-men


You're bsically saying phoenix is rubbish because it had to fix the omega point (which you find to be absurd logic if you knew what it is lol ). Opal refers to this tear in reality as a " infected brane" a cancer in reality. Very similar to the rupture in reality caused by Bubonicus to Eternity in Guardians of the galaxy 35 which a certain firebird sealed up lol.

You didn't even have to get that obscure - Captain Britan and Megan sealed up the rift this past issue. But again - Wanda only accidentally opened that rift. Nobody could stop her if she just thought, "You know what, screw all of you" and just blew the whole thing wide up. Who could stop her? Not Ms. "I can't do anything because I'm a dead immortal" Phoenix


Have you actually read it or are you going by what other say? The wave which ripped through otherworld wasnt Wandas power but the chaos wave. I'll post scans tomorrow (remind me)

I'm avidly reading HoM. It's the god damned House of MAGNUS! You should know better.


To fix a hole in reality isnt beyond phoenix come on Demi think boy.

Apparently it is if Phoenix needed both the Crystal AND a bunch of human sacrifices to do it. Wanda just went, "Oh, my bad" and there was the hole.


The crystal is just integral to existence, something Wanda couldnt exist without. Thats why it was vital she fixed it.

Also something Phoenix couldn't exist without. So what?

(not that Phoenix exists now anyway, but still....lol)


Do you know what a multiverse is Demi? After a core universe is created oover time vibrational differences between atoms cause alternate universes to spring from the core one, (616) over time creating a multiverse. Multiverses are created over time from a core universe. The marvel multiverse originates from Phoenix. Ok?

WTF???? Where the hell did you get that definition from????

Phoenix has NEVER been shown to do anything multiversal. Otherwise she wouldn't need to be Jean Grey and activated in every reality - she'd encompass all of them, and the AOA would never have had its creation-destroying problem because Phoenix would have been beyond any single reality. Get your Phoenix history straight, you're slippin, GS. 😉


Demi think out of the box please. Please think about when AOA was written. It was during the retcon period when Jean and Phoenix were seperate which explains why the crystal was a problem in AOA.

It's continuity, though, isn't it? And even now....no Phoenix! In fact, it seems a recurring theme, doesn't it? Whenever there's no Jean (or an untrained Jean), there's no Phoenix. Jean never became Phoenix in AOA - no Phoenix to stop omniversal destruction. Jean is killed by Xorneto, no Jean to stop omniversal destruction in HoM. Seems consistent to me.


The fact that there are phoenix hosts throughout the multiverse renders your statement void im afraid son lol.

Oh, you did it again! Phoenix hosts throughout the multiverse, yet we need JEAN to fix the Crystal otherwise the omniverse dies, huh? Phoenix hosts throughout the muliverse, and yet the omniverse is going to die because nobody can stop Wanda.


If you read the AOA one shot this year you'd know that phoenix was in AOA. Keep up with your reading it helps in debates.

Sound advice. It helps even more to read it carefully - try it some time.

For example: Phoenix was NOT in AOA untillllll....she died, which took place while reality was being saved by other people. There was NO Phoenix until after then, so my point stands exactly as it did before. No recollection of anything, no restoration of anything...no real consequence. So again, Ms. Multiverse is unable to show until Jean dies and is reborn. Phoenix is powerless until then, and even worse, powerless AGAIN if Jean dies. Phoenix is always powerless, isn't she? Wimp.


There is one phoenix (Jean being the closest the force has to a human form) who operates across the multiverse in host bodies hence the Phoenix corps in New Xmen

Right. That corp would come in handy right now, wouldn't they? They would have come in handy in AOA too. And yet, instead Jean needs to die in one timeline in order to have an effect on another.

Phoenix = most useless cosmic being in the MU


Except it does. Your understanding was just flawed lol

Naw. Your character is just a mess.


That was done on a whim and is beyond anything Wandas done directly with her powers. Have you not read my posts. I remembered Xmen forever and told you that Phoenix collapses reality under its own power (something thats beyond wanda) and it creates existence from scratch (again beyond Wanda) I'll post the uncanny scans 2morrow which show it was the chaos wave running through Otherworld. With them you'll see that wandas power and influence are restricted to 616 and therefore as always phoenix wins. 😉

Good try, but falls a wee bit short. Phoenix has still not been shown to operate multiversally. Phoenix couldn't even repair the M'Kraan Crystal on her own. Every Phoenix in every reality we've seen (where Jean isn't dead 😆 ) has its own memories and no shared knowledge, displayed the way it is by Eternity, LT, or hell, even Japf. Does anything AOA Phoenix say show any inkling of any cosmic knowledge? We have no evidence whatsoever to show that it's a single entity across the multiverse. I assume you know what an avatar is, though that's probably a bold assumption given what you've said here, lol.

Tell ya what, sunshine - post some scans of a single Phoenix Force operating across all realities and we'll talk.

I realised we haven't even been discussing what the chaos-wave is. Having read UXM #462 a little closer I've personally come to the conclusion that the chaos wave is directly Wanda's reality manipulation power but with no particular specification to it.

Intro (#464):Because of Wanda’s reality shake-up, a trans-temporal tsunami of unimaginable force swept outward from our Earth…shattering the walls between dimensions as it spread to the farthest reaches of Crosstime.

Unless the chaos-wave is stopped, all reality will devolve into nothingness. The only way is to seal the breach in the dimensional walls that occurred on Earth when the Scarlet Witch altered it’s fundamental reality.

Wanda tore the dimensional wall when she altered the entirety of 616. Her power is flowing outwards from Earth 616 through the tear and manipulating reality unchecked in Otherworld and spreading to other realities.

Meggan: It’s the end, my love. Of all that is! Of all that will ever be!

Saturnyne: All I need is a few seconds… and ‘brane 616 will be no more.
Saturnyne: Your dimension has become a cancer, bringing devastation to ‘branes all along the sidereal string. Sparing you condemns the rest!

Roma: I care deeply for you and for your world. But I am also charged with the protection of all-that-is. To preserve the survival – of the greater whole I will not hesitate to sacrifice even this part I so cherish.

The entire 616 reality has been changed. The power driving these changes is breaking through and spilling across dimensional barriers. This will bring about the destruction of all realities. All creation.

Roma: We are witnessing a trans-temporal tsunami, originating from Earth 616. Apparently, there has been an alteration of global proportions that has breached the walls of causality.

Wanda inadvertently breached the walls between dimensions with her power when she remade 616 and her reality altering power is flowing through and wreaking uncontrolled havoc on the reality of Otherworld and spreading.

Roma: Until the breach is sealed, this chaos wave will keep expanding along the sidereal string to the farthest reaches of imagination, from the sundered planes to the sublimity– perhaps even to the Ascension itself. Left unchecked, all of creation will merge into a single formless amorphous conceptual blob. The very concepts of Order and Chaos will simply… cease. It will be the end of rational existence as we know it.

Roma: The breach fuels the chaos wave. If it is not closed, I must act. You, your world, your entire plane of being -- will be ended.

The breach and the chaos wave aren't the same thing. The breach – a hole in the dimensional wall from 616 – is the aperture through which the chaos wave – a wave of uncontrolled reality alteration – is flowing. Both are directly a result of Wanda's power. The breach must be sealed and the dimensional walls must be restored to stop Wanda’s power from overflowing into the other realities. Or the reality as a whole must be destroyed to destroy the source - the Scarlet Witch and her changes to the 616 reality. If it’s allowed to continue unabated it will destroy all creation. Including the Ascension.

Originally posted by demigawd
Wanda's influence had clearly extended to Otherworld willingly if it lifted several Otherworld characters (like Brian and Meggan) and suddenly placed them in 616 in positions of power in England, even restoring Brian's Captain Britain title from Kelsey Leigh - OVERRIDING Roma's power in the process. If that's not multiversal reach, I don't know what is.

He threatened to take it over, not destroy it entirely. As LT himself said, he doesn't care about the transfer of power, just that the multiverse as a whole is preserved. The destruction of all creation that Wanda will cause is identical in scope to the threat of the M'Kraan Crystal. But it seems Phoenix can only act if Phoenix is alive. Phoenix is not. Not very omnipotent if you ask me, GS. 🙁

Oh, ok. And to think, Wanda only threatens the continued existence of ALL CREATION. Good thing she's not a threat to evolution, like Sublime, otherwise Phoenix really would have brought down the hammer on her ass....

Except for that whole destruction of the omniverse part....

So she decided that getting rid of Sublime is something worth her time to prevent her friends from having a crappy future, but stopping Wanda "destroying creation" Maximoff wasn't? Phoenix is denser than you are if that's the case. 😆

And yet isn't present for anything when Jean is dead. So the moral of this story is - if you don't want the Phoenix to f*ck up your plans, kill Jean, then proceed to destroy the multiverse.

Wow, GS, you've convinced me - your b*tch is the easiest omnipotent being to nullify in all of comics

That's ok - neither could Phoenix. You're the expert, and you're telling me that you forgot that Phoenix could NOT fix the M'Kraan Crystal on her own? Phoenix "didn't have the power" to repair reality. She needed two human anchors, and even then couldn't repair it. She needed the entire team's lifeforce. She created the multiverse and couldn't fix it on her own? She needed BOTH the Crystal AND a bunch of lifeforces to fix a little tear in reality? 😖ick:

This isn't a very good resume for your b*tch, I'm afraid. 🙁

So so far we have Wanda = Phoenix M'Kraan Crystal X-men

You didn't even have to get that obscure - Captain Britan and Megan sealed up the rift this past issue. But again - Wanda only accidentally opened that rift. Nobody could stop her if she just thought, "You know what, screw all of you" and just blew the whole thing wide up. Who could stop her? Not Ms. "I can't do anything because I'm a dead immortal" Phoenix

I'm avidly reading HoM. It's the god damned House of MAGNUS! You should know better.

Apparently it is if Phoenix needed both the Crystal AND a bunch of human sacrifices to do it. Wanda just went, "Oh, my bad" and there was the hole.

Also something Phoenix couldn't exist without. So what?

(not that Phoenix exists now anyway, but still....lol)

WTF???? Where the hell did you get that definition from????

Phoenix has NEVER been shown to do anything multiversal. Otherwise she wouldn't need to be Jean Grey and activated in every reality - she'd encompass all of them, and the AOA would never have had its creation-destroying problem because Phoenix would have been beyond any single reality. Get your Phoenix history straight, you're slippin, GS. 😉

It's continuity, though, isn't it? And even now....no Phoenix! In fact, it seems a recurring theme, doesn't it? Whenever there's no Jean (or an untrained Jean), there's no Phoenix. Jean never became Phoenix in AOA - no Phoenix to stop omniversal destruction. Jean is killed by Xorneto, no Jean to stop omniversal destruction in HoM. Seems consistent to me.

Oh, you did it again! Phoenix hosts throughout the multiverse, yet we need JEAN to fix the Crystal otherwise the omniverse dies, huh? Phoenix hosts throughout the muliverse, and yet the omniverse is going to die because nobody can stop Wanda.

Sound advice. It helps even more to read it carefully - try it some time.

For example: Phoenix was NOT in AOA untillllll....she died, which took place while reality was being saved by other people. There was NO Phoenix until after then, so my point stands exactly as it did before. No recollection of anything, no restoration of anything...no real consequence. So again, Ms. Multiverse is unable to show until Jean dies and is reborn. Phoenix is powerless until then, and even worse, powerless AGAIN if Jean dies. Phoenix is always powerless, isn't she? Wimp.

Right. That corp would come in handy right now, wouldn't they? They would have come in handy in AOA too. And yet, instead Jean needs to die in one timeline in order to have an effect on another.

Phoenix = most useless cosmic being in the MU

Naw. Your character is just a mess.

Good try, but falls a wee bit short. Phoenix has still not been shown to operate multiversally. Phoenix couldn't even repair the M'Kraan Crystal on her own. Every Phoenix in every reality we've seen (where Jean isn't dead 😆 ) has its own memories and no shared knowledge, displayed the way it is by Eternity, LT, or hell, even Japf. Does anything AOA Phoenix say show any inkling of any cosmic knowledge? We have no evidence whatsoever to show that it's a single entity across the multiverse. I assume you know what an avatar is, though that's probably a bold assumption given what you've said here, lol.

Tell ya what, sunshine - post some scans of a single Phoenix Force operating across all realities and we'll talk.

Yup GS is still being owned 🙂

Keep the faith🙂

Stay Demi 🤘

Whirly, did you remake this thread in the X-men forum with some suck excuse for it being there?

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Whirly, did you remake this thread in the X-men forum with some suck excuse for it being there?

would I do anything of the sort Swanky 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
would I do anything of the sort Swanky 😖hifty:

No. Never. I was just making sure.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
No. Never. I was just making sure.

🙂

didnt she already beat pheonix like twice?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
didnt she already beat pheonix like twice?

I don't know Leon - did she 🙂

HOM is PIS. Since the Editor in Chief wants to do away with like hundreds of Xmen I doubt he would have Phoenix fix it all. Just like in DC with Parallax we all know that Spectre could easily have destroyed Parallax but the writers wanted to rewrite DCU. so they did. HOM is like the Marvel version of Zero Hour.

We all know Phoenix is far beyond Wanda, far beyond. Wanda can do whatever she wants, Phoenix will still be beyond her.