Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Roma said the wave was ending rational existence disrupting reality. She also said that the chaos wave was originating from an altered earth and it was that that had swept through Otherworld and other realities. There was no mention of Wandas power sweeping through affecting things, just the chaos wave so that is speculation Demi and its not supported by Romas on panel analysis of the situation.
Wanda's influence had clearly extended to Otherworld willingly if it lifted several Otherworld characters (like Brian and Meggan) and suddenly placed them in 616 in positions of power in England, even restoring Brian's Captain Britain title from Kelsey Leigh - OVERRIDING Roma's power in the process. If that's not multiversal reach, I don't know what is.
I cant explain Phoenixes absence although endsong being stated to be the last phoenix story for a long time has a big thing to do with it obviously. Abraxas also threatened the multiverse, he disrupted the natural order yet neither Phoenix or LT showed up to stop him.
He threatened to take it over, not destroy it entirely. As LT himself said, he doesn't care about the transfer of power, just that the multiverse as a whole is preserved. The destruction of all creation that Wanda will cause is identical in scope to the threat of the M'Kraan Crystal. But it seems Phoenix can only act if Phoenix is alive. Phoenix is not. Not very omnipotent if you ask me, GS. 🙁
It was left to the heroes. As for Sublime, it was preventing the progress of evolution and therefore was halting the creation life cycle which phoenix collapses with beings transcending and becoming a part of creation.
Oh, ok. And to think, Wanda only threatens the continued existence of ALL CREATION. Good thing she's not a threat to evolution, like Sublime, otherwise Phoenix really would have brought down the hammer on her ass....
Wandas actions arent preventing this cycle shes merely shaping reality to her whim.
Except for that whole destruction of the omniverse part....
As for the M'kraan crystal no other being can contain the power of the crystal. Phoenix is connected to it. Its the Crown hence the reason why she needs it. Even if Wanda was halting the cycle Wanda will be stopped by the heroes being beyond reality this is foreseen by my b*tch just like the events of the Here Comes Tomorrow arc were foreseen (as she talked about them before) and so she knew she had to die. In New Xmen 154 Jean foresaw the future for her friends if she didnt heal 616 so dhe did.
So she decided that getting rid of Sublime is something worth her time to prevent her friends from having a crappy future, but stopping Wanda "destroying creation" Maximoff wasn't? Phoenix is denser than you are if that's the case. 😆
Thats ridiculous when phoenix repaired the 616 reality and is responsible for the creation of the multiverse anyway.
And yet isn't present for anything when Jean is dead. So the moral of this story is - if you don't want the Phoenix to f*ck up your plans, kill Jean, then proceed to destroy the multiverse.
Wow, GS, you've convinced me - your b*tch is the easiest omnipotent being to nullify in all of comics
Wanda wouldnt be able to fix the crystal or do away with it.
That's ok - neither could Phoenix. You're the expert, and you're telling me that you forgot that Phoenix could NOT fix the M'Kraan Crystal on her own? Phoenix "didn't have the power" to repair reality. She needed two human anchors, and even then couldn't repair it. She needed the entire team's lifeforce. She created the multiverse and couldn't fix it on her own? She needed BOTH the Crystal AND a bunch of lifeforces to fix a little tear in reality? 😖ick:
This isn't a very good resume for your b*tch, I'm afraid. 🙁
So so far we have Wanda = Phoenix M'Kraan Crystal X-men
You're bsically saying phoenix is rubbish because it had to fix the omega point (which you find to be absurd logic if you knew what it is lol ). Opal refers to this tear in reality as a " infected brane" a cancer in reality. Very similar to the rupture in reality caused by Bubonicus to Eternity in Guardians of the galaxy 35 which a certain firebird sealed up lol.
You didn't even have to get that obscure - Captain Britan and Megan sealed up the rift this past issue. But again - Wanda only accidentally opened that rift. Nobody could stop her if she just thought, "You know what, screw all of you" and just blew the whole thing wide up. Who could stop her? Not Ms. "I can't do anything because I'm a dead immortal" Phoenix
Have you actually read it or are you going by what other say? The wave which ripped through otherworld wasnt Wandas power but the chaos wave. I'll post scans tomorrow (remind me)
I'm avidly reading HoM. It's the god damned House of MAGNUS! You should know better.
To fix a hole in reality isnt beyond phoenix come on Demi think boy.
Apparently it is if Phoenix needed both the Crystal AND a bunch of human sacrifices to do it. Wanda just went, "Oh, my bad" and there was the hole.
The crystal is just integral to existence, something Wanda couldnt exist without. Thats why it was vital she fixed it.
Also something Phoenix couldn't exist without. So what?
(not that Phoenix exists now anyway, but still....lol)
Do you know what a multiverse is Demi? After a core universe is created oover time vibrational differences between atoms cause alternate universes to spring from the core one, (616) over time creating a multiverse. Multiverses are created over time from a core universe. The marvel multiverse originates from Phoenix. Ok?
WTF???? Where the hell did you get that definition from????
Phoenix has NEVER been shown to do anything multiversal. Otherwise she wouldn't need to be Jean Grey and activated in every reality - she'd encompass all of them, and the AOA would never have had its creation-destroying problem because Phoenix would have been beyond any single reality. Get your Phoenix history straight, you're slippin, GS. 😉
Demi think out of the box please. Please think about when AOA was written. It was during the retcon period when Jean and Phoenix were seperate which explains why the crystal was a problem in AOA.
It's continuity, though, isn't it? And even now....no Phoenix! In fact, it seems a recurring theme, doesn't it? Whenever there's no Jean (or an untrained Jean), there's no Phoenix. Jean never became Phoenix in AOA - no Phoenix to stop omniversal destruction. Jean is killed by Xorneto, no Jean to stop omniversal destruction in HoM. Seems consistent to me.
The fact that there are phoenix hosts throughout the multiverse renders your statement void im afraid son lol.
Oh, you did it again! Phoenix hosts throughout the multiverse, yet we need JEAN to fix the Crystal otherwise the omniverse dies, huh? Phoenix hosts throughout the muliverse, and yet the omniverse is going to die because nobody can stop Wanda.
If you read the AOA one shot this year you'd know that phoenix was in AOA. Keep up with your reading it helps in debates.
Sound advice. It helps even more to read it carefully - try it some time.
For example: Phoenix was NOT in AOA untillllll....she died, which took place while reality was being saved by other people. There was NO Phoenix until after then, so my point stands exactly as it did before. No recollection of anything, no restoration of anything...no real consequence. So again, Ms. Multiverse is unable to show until Jean dies and is reborn. Phoenix is powerless until then, and even worse, powerless AGAIN if Jean dies. Phoenix is always powerless, isn't she? Wimp.
There is one phoenix (Jean being the closest the force has to a human form) who operates across the multiverse in host bodies hence the Phoenix corps in New Xmen
Right. That corp would come in handy right now, wouldn't they? They would have come in handy in AOA too. And yet, instead Jean needs to die in one timeline in order to have an effect on another.
Phoenix = most useless cosmic being in the MU
Except it does. Your understanding was just flawed lol
Naw. Your character is just a mess.
That was done on a whim and is beyond anything Wandas done directly with her powers. Have you not read my posts. I remembered Xmen forever and told you that Phoenix collapses reality under its own power (something thats beyond wanda) and it creates existence from scratch (again beyond Wanda) I'll post the uncanny scans 2morrow which show it was the chaos wave running through Otherworld. With them you'll see that wandas power and influence are restricted to 616 and therefore as always phoenix wins. 😉
Good try, but falls a wee bit short. Phoenix has still not been shown to operate multiversally. Phoenix couldn't even repair the M'Kraan Crystal on her own. Every Phoenix in every reality we've seen (where Jean isn't dead 😆 ) has its own memories and no shared knowledge, displayed the way it is by Eternity, LT, or hell, even Japf. Does anything AOA Phoenix say show any inkling of any cosmic knowledge? We have no evidence whatsoever to show that it's a single entity across the multiverse. I assume you know what an avatar is, though that's probably a bold assumption given what you've said here, lol.
Tell ya what, sunshine - post some scans of a single Phoenix Force operating across all realities and we'll talk.