Scarlet Witch (current) vs. Phoenix Force Jean

Originally posted by Superherovandal
you do know that the White Hot Room is outside of reality and therefore not affected by any of this HOM bull. It wouldn't be affected. Scarlet Witch is powerful yes but not unbeatable. I understand that she did all this. But it seems more like something she released but cannot control. And there have been few reality warpers in MU on this level that actually tried it. It s usually someone like Phoenix fixing it or Richards creating alternate universes totally separate from the 616 one. Has there ever honestly been something like this in MU. In DCU? Yes loads of times. Its like Parallax. Parallax ain't even to as close as powerful as Phoenix yet he managed to reshape all of DCU.

Roma is referring to the White Hot Room when she's talking about the Ascension. She's talking about the seat of God. So yes, the chaos wave was certainly making its way towards the White Hot Room.

Does Phoenix Force get prep time? 😎

Originally posted by Creshosk
Like Legion did?

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9330/comicgambitandthexternals00315.jpg

So jean isn't beyond Time? Interesting

And what is that suppose to prove.

The central point here, because things are spiraling into all these other directions is that Wanda was able to tear a hole in the fabric in creation, something that had never been done before without using the M'Kraan Crystal, which is why it set off the wave of destruction that will consume EVERYTHING (including the White Hot Room where Phoenix originates).

GS says that because Wanda didn't create the chaos wave of her own power that it doesn't count as a feat. I agree. But my point is that her power is to alter creation itself....Wanda could very easily do more than just open a tear, she could rip EVERYTHING open and destroy the entire omniverse in an instant. This has nothing to do with a chaos wave - it's all Wanda.

Phoenix has done nothing to stop it, unlike the M'Kraan Crystal or Sublime. It's because she doesn't have that kind of power....she needs the Crystal to make repairs, but Wanda went beyond the Crystal and Phoenix has no clue how to stop it.

Strange too that the Phoenix was cancelled out in AOA just by Legion messing up time and needed Gambit to fix everything. Looks like Phoenix isn't as omniversal as some would believe considering she was nowhere to be found in AOA to stop the destruction of creation. But that's neither here nor there. Just thought I'd mention that.

Originally posted by kgkg
So jean isn't beyond Time? Interesting

Great minds think alike. So what - Phoenix was powerless because there was no Jean around to bond with her? Sounds pretty limiting if you ask me. tsk tsk.

Originally posted by kgkg
How old is that comic?

So jean isn't beyond Time? Interesting

And what is that suppose to prove.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Legions actions threatened to destroy all reality, and all he did was time travel and kill xavier. . .

Paf! Xavier's dead. Go Jubes go!

Originally posted by Creshosk
Legions actions threatened to destroy all reality, and all he did was time travel and kill xavier. . .

But HOM states that action is occurring

And numerous sources indicate same shit, and you actually see evidence of it.

And whenever you read at the intro it says

Wanda’s powers has effected ………..

Originally posted by demigawd
Great minds think alike. So what - Phoenix was powerless because there was no Jean around to bond with her? Sounds pretty limiting if you ask me. tsk tsk.

So does that mean Eternity controls the primal Force 😉

And Wanda can pull reality out of it's time so that puts her above Eternity and the primal Force. Ever wonder if the reason Phoenix isn't coming to help out is that Phoenix has been unmade by Wanda?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And Wanda can pull reality out of it's time so that puts her above Eternity and the primal Force. Ever wonder if the reason Phoenix isn't coming to help out is that Phoenix has been unmade by Wanda?

Either that or she's still recovering from being killed by Xorneto. It seems Phoenix can only exist at one time at a time. She "allowed" herself to be killed so that she can travel in the future and erase Sublime. Anybody ever wonder WHY she needed to do that, given that she's, according to our esteemed colleague, "just under TOAA"? Would LT have to do something like die in one timeline to do something in another? Would Eternity? Would even Galactus?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Legions actions threatened to destroy all reality, and all he did was time travel and kill xavier. . .

You're missing the point. He channeled the power of the Crystal, which shattered it, and there was no Phoenix activated in AOA to fix it. So it sent out chaos waves. Aside from the obvious question - why would Phoenix have to be "activated" to save the omniverse? - the more direct point is Legion used the Crystal. Wanda did it all with her own power. She tore through creation with her own power....unconsciously at that.

Originally posted by kgkg
He threatened

But HOM states that action is occurring

And numerous sources indicate same shit, and you actually see evidence of it.

And whenever you read at the intro it says

Wanda’s powers has effected ………..

It stated that legion's actions threatened to destroy all reality. . just like Wanda's actions are now doing.

Well it makes sense really. Scott's desire is to be with Emma. Emma's desire is to be with Scott. Jean is a problem. Wanda also wants to stop the fighting and the Phoenix is source of conflict. Wanda erases Jean Grey to take her out of the picture completely. Wanda erases the Phoenix.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And?

It stated that legion's actions threatened to destroy all reality. . just like Wanda's actions are now doing.

Originally posted by demigawd
You're missing the point. He channeled the power of the Crystal, which shattered it, and there was no Phoenix activated in AOA to fix it. So it sent out chaos waves. Aside from the obvious question - why would Phoenix have to be "activated" to save the omniverse? - the more direct point is Legion used the Crystal. Wanda did it all with her own power. She tore through creation with her own power....unconsciously at that.

You guys raise interesting points though. . I have to wonder what the story of Phoenix in AOA is. .

I can't find the picture but Phoenix made an appearence in an AOA. .

Originally posted by Creshosk
And?

It stated that legion's actions threatened to destroy all reality. . just like Wanda's actions are now doing.

That Wanda didn't do what she did? Am confused

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Well it makes sense really. Scott's desire is to be with Emma. Emma's desire is to be with Scott. Jean is a problem. Wanda also wants to stop the fighting and the Phoenix is source of conflict. Wanda erases Jean Grey to take her out of the picture completely. Wanda erases the Phoenix.

Could you imagine if she had done this during other civil rights actrion movements? Or ww2?

Would she remove the Jews, African americans or women?

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's still inadvertened threated collapse. . .

You guys raise interesting points though. . I have to wonder what the story of Phoenix in AOA is. .

I can't find the picture but Phoenix made an appearence in an AOA. .

We're not talking about the result - anybody can crack the Crsytal and initiate a chaos wave. We're agreed on that point. What's impressive is that what was thought to be impossible WITHOUT the Crystal has been achieved by Wanda - it's beyond anything we've seen a sentient being do before - including Phoenix.

Originally posted by kgkg
If so what is your point?

That Wanda didn't do what she did? Am confused

Yes her actions threaten all of reality, but so did legions. and I wouldn't put legions power up to be that high. Would you?