Scarlet Witch (current) vs. Phoenix Force Jean

Started by demigawd26 pages

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah. . but Wanda is kinda stupid in that respect. . .Let's remove the source of the problem?

Could you imagine if she had done this during other civil rights actrion movements? Or ww2?

Would she remove the Jews, African americans or women?

Well, Wanda's flaw in all of this is that she's irrational. She has more power than anyone in the history of the Marvel Universe, but she makes these bizarre decisions. That's the tragedy of the whole thing.

Give her power to Doom or Thanos and see what happens.

Originally posted by demigawd
We're not talking about the result - anybody can crack the Crsytal and initiate a chaos wave. We're agreed on that point. What's impressive is that what was thought to be impossible WITHOUT the Crystal has been achieved by Wanda - it's beyond anything we've seen a sentient being do before - including Phoenix.
Yeah she was carless an accidently breached. . what did roma call it? The Casuilty wall? 😆

I'm not denying that she has threatened all of the Marvel multiverse with collapse, I'm just saying that legion did that as well . . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
No, just what wanda did isn't quite as impressive as some people are making it out to be.

Yes her actions threaten all of reality, but so did legions. and I wouldn't put legions power up to be that high. Would you?

No, I wouldn't because Legion needed the Crystal and the after effects of the change to do what Wanda did out of her power unconsciously. No Crystal necessary. See what I'm saying?

Originally posted by demigawd
Well, Wanda's flaw in all of this is that she's irrational. She has more power than anyone in the history of the Marvel Universe, but she makes these bizarre decisions. That's the tragedy of the whole thing.

Give her power to Doom or Thanos and see what happens.

What did happen when Thanos had it?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah she was carless an accidently breached. . what did roma call it? The Casuilty wall? 😆

I'm not denying that she has threatened all of the Marvel multiverse with collapse, I'm just saying that legion did that as well . . .

But. Legion. Did. It. With. The. Crystal. Wanda. Did. It. On. Her. Own.

Originally posted by Creshosk
What did happen when Thanos had it?

Guess we'll never know. Best guess? Multiply Wanda's little tear by infinity....

Originally posted by demigawd
No, I wouldn't because Legion needed the Crystal and the after effects of the change to do what Wanda did out of her power unconsciously. No Crystal necessary. See what I'm saying?
Not really. Roma did say all she did was a global change, and that accidently breached the wall somehow.

But if it's like you destroyed the Earth and the rest of the multiverse threatened with collapse because of it.

Destroying the planet isn't impressive is it?

Yet somehow doing that cause the rest of the multiverse to threaten with collapse.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah she was carless an accidently breached. . what did roma call it? The Casuilty wall? 😆
You gotta love Roma and her flowery language. Respek Roma!

Creshy you know it was beyond global.😉

Originally posted by demigawd
But. Legion. Did. It. With. The. Crystal. Wanda. Did. It. On. Her. Own.
Legion did it by killing Xavier.

Big ****ing whoop.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You gotta love Roma and her flowery language. Respek Roma!

Creshy you know it was beyond global.

Inadvertantly.

Just like Legion's slaying of Xavier.

Originally posted by demigawd
Guess we'll never know. Best guess? Multiply Wanda's little tear by infinity....
It's not like this collapse is going to succeed to the point of "the end of everything" . . unless Marvel goes bankrupt. . . that would be the end of the marvel universe.

Originally posted by demigawd
Again, it's part of her job to do that. Impressive would be if Phoenix, who is so mighty that she created everything, would simply fix all realities. If she were as mighty as you've portrayed her, she wouldn't need the Crystal, would she?

The crystal is the nexus of all realities and the crown is accessible through it you cant just get rid of it Demi. Its purpose is to contain the omega point the neutron star which is the origin point of all that is. As stated in Uncanny the crystal is the heart of Phoenix. Thats why she repaired it because she is a part of it.

Originally posted by demigawd
Yeah. Your analogy doesn't make sense and mine does.

Your faulty analogy portrays Wanda herself as the chaos wave crossing into other dimensions which is incorrect . Mine portrays wanda as the catalyst the cause for the wave without being directly connected to the wave i.e it being her energies and her having control of it.

Originally posted by demigawd
If you think about the number of reality warpers we've had and the number of times we've changed reality and how there's never been a chaos wave that threatened all creation before, it would HAVE to be something specific to Wanda's power. It's NOT something any reality warper can do, it's something only Wanda can do because she's done it. And like I said in my last post, she could easily blow open the whole operation if she wanted to. All the chaos was just from a little accidental tear. A tear created by Wanda. The tear created a chaos wave, which is the same as the "draft" that Japf had described. If Wanda blew the whole thing open, there wouldn't be a "chaos wave", it would be THE END.

Not true. You're just speculating into what Wanda can do when its not sufficiently supported on panel. The whole avengers dissassembled thing was all about Wanda not having a clue how to use her powers and that being the reason she was going insane. That is why there is an unintentional tear in reality. She did a botch job with her reality warping causing the chaos wave. Any reality warper of a decent power level im sure could rupture the dimensional barriers . Either way so what its not wandas powe thats caused the multiversal devastation its her bursting the dam with the resultant tidal wave doing all the work. Its not a feat for her. She only manipulated 616 earths reality and her tamperings caused the chaos wave that is causing reality all around her to turn on its head. As roma said the alteration was global but its caused trans temporal tsunami thats spreading from earth to the rest of creation, breaching dimensional barriers. Ive got to give her credit for the damage shes caused but thats it. She just lit the fuse the rest is not her work.

Originally posted by demigawd
A lot of good jahf did in stopping Wanda, who, as I said before, tore through creation with her own power. The side effect was a chaos wave, but that's only because her machinations left a little tear. If she wanted to unmake everything, she wouldn't just put a little tear. She'd rip it all open, and it would cause the instant end of the omniverse. Fact

No she warped earths reality with her own power which is the "global alteration" Roma is referring to. Her inexperience with her power resulted in the the chaos wave (the "trans temporal tsunami originating from earth 616"😉 which is causing reality across the multiversal to turn on its head. That is not Wanda. So yeah she could cause reality to end by using her power as the catalyst but then so what? Its not as impressive as doing it outright with your own power cyclically which we know phoenix does. As confimed in uncanny 460 phoenix is connected to the crown it is its heart. The crown is the m'kraan crystal or at least its accessible through it (New X-men 154) so at the end of creation when phoenix breaks down creation and downloads it into the omega point "the neutron star" its all under her own power because the crystal is her heart as stated in 460.

Originally posted by demigawd
Only 616? That Phoenix, so small scale....

Ummm you only have proof that Wanda warped earths reality under her own power. Her inexperience caused the chaos wave which warped everything else and is running through creation. Bigger feat than we've seen wanda achieve directly im afraid.

Originally posted by demigawd
Anyway, Wanda limited her specific changes to the people affecting 616 Earth by giving them what they wanted. That's what Roma is referring to. But the effects went through all realities itself. And, as I already said, it affected beings such as the Kree, Shi'ar and Galactus.

The central point is clear - if she was able to tear a hole in the fabric of creation, there's nothing she can't do if she so chose. Nobody else has done this without the M'Kraan Crystal, which you yourself has said is beyond the Infinity Gauntlet and HOTU.

No the global alteration isnt referring to that. That doesnt make nearly as much sense. Wanda ripped a hole in reality through inexperience with her powers. Just like Legion did it by tampering with the M'kraan crystal. Given that the chaos wave wasnt wandas own power you have absolutely nothing to go on. All this speculation simply isnt good enough. When you can show me an on panel feat achieved by Wanda directly that equals Jean holding 616 in her hand and restructuring it then we'll talk. Phoenix has her beat for on panel feats achieved via her own power, plus the fact that shes an aspect of god says it all. On top of that shes called the ultimate mutation for a reason Dem.

But if you look at the graphics of the reality wave, realities were destroyed and shifted all over the place. Multiple versions of Rogue and others were seen flying through space and time.

Originally posted by demigawd
And I doubt Ronan, the Kree, Galactus and the Inhumans (moon-based) all just so happened to be on the planet at the time it hit. C'mon, now. It appears that Wanda changed reality not just of 616 Earth but of people related to 616 Earth, too. Like the Surfer, Galactus, the Shi'ar and anyone else who is somehow related to the Earth. So in one sense it's localized, but at the same time it's clear that it's effects stretch beyond that with Wanda having the option of going beyond even that. That's how she hit people who weren't even on Earth. She did specifically what she wanted, but to say that's the extent when she's tearing through creation is silly.

Answered above

Originally posted by demigawd
Well, she would be there, and then White Hot Room would be destroyed, then Phoenix wouldn't be there. There you go.

Roma didnt say the affect would reach the white hot room. The word ascension isnt good enough Demi. Your argument relies too much on speculation and it lacks on panel feats achieved directly by Wandas hand. The chaos wave is the result of wandas power acting as a catalyst.

Originally posted by demigawd
I addressed all these questions before, but to summarize - The chaos wave was the result of the small tear in reality that Wanda accidentally caused. That little wave went through and started mucking with everything. It was Wanda's power that created the tear. Wanda wouldn't need a chaos wave, she'd just rip the whole thing apart and start again. It's like a raging waterfall having a faucet. It channeled its power through the faucet and the faucet is filling the bathtub up. You think that waterfall NEEDS the faucet to fill stuff up with water?

Youre speculating on Wandas abilities. Your analogy is unclear to me lol however theres no concrete evidence that Wanda can directly warp reality beyond a global scale. Her amateur attempts caused the chaos wave that swept through creation collapsing/ warping reality. When you have scans which show clearly that wanda directly (not using her power as a catalyst) can match or better phoenixes on panel feats then you'll have a point. As it stands her power can be a catalyst to break down reality if she so chooses, however she has no control over the chaos wave it doesnt derive from her. All it does, all it destroys is not a feat of wandas. Her definite absolutely 100 % definite feat is warping earth 616 and thats that.

Phoenix wins. 😱

Originally posted by Creshosk
Legion did it by killing Xavier.

Big ****ing whoop.

Bah! You're just titchy cos no one else thinks Jubes could Paf the omniverse.

Beyond global.
New Thunderbolts - how many star systems does the K'ree empire span? How many other races do they encounter?
Uncanny X-Men - The initial alteration hits Otherworld. And Roma and Saturnyne intend to destroy the entire reality to save the omniverse. Roma is most fond of reality 616 she wouldn't destroy the entire thing if she didn't have to.

Do you expect them to have a random comic showing how she changed the rest of the universe? Whose gonna fork out money for that?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The crystal is the nexus of all realities and the crown is accessible through it you cant just get rid of it Demi. Its purpose is to contain the omega point the neutron star which is the origin point of all that is. As stated in Uncanny the crystal is the heart of Phoenix. Thats why she repaired it because she is a part of it.

Your faulty analogy portrays Wanda herself as the chaos wave crossing into other dimensions which is incorrect . Mine portrays wanda as the catalyst the cause for the wave without being directly connected to the wave i.e it being her energies and her having control of it.

Not true. You're just speculating into what Wanda can do when its not sufficiently supported on panel. The whole avengers dissassembled thing was all about Wanda not having a clue how to use her powers and that being the reason she was going insane. That is why there is an unintentional tear in reality. She did a botch job with her reality warping causing the chaos wave. Any reality warper of a decent power level im sure could rupture the dimensional barriers . Either way so what its not wandas powe thats caused the multiversal devastation its her bursting the dam with the resultant tidal wave doing all the work. Its not a feat for her. She only manipulated 616 earths reality and her tamperings caused the chaos wave that is causing reality all around her to turn on its head. As roma said the alteration was global but its caused trans temporal tsunami thats spreading from earth to the rest of creation, breaching dimensional barriers. Ive got to give her credit for the damage shes caused but thats it. She just lit the fuse the rest is not her work.

No she warped earths reality with her own power which is the "global alteration" Roma is referring to. Her inexperience with her power resulted in the the chaos wave (the "trans temporal tsunami originating from earth 616"😉 which is causing reality across the multiversal to turn on its head. That is not Wanda. So yeah she could cause reality to end by using her power as the catalyst but then so what? Its not as impressive as doing it outright with your own power cyclically which we know phoenix does. As confimed in uncanny 460 phoenix is connected to the crown it is its heart. The crown is the m'kraan crystal or at least its accessible through it (New X-men 154) so at the end of creation when phoenix breaks down creation and downloads it into the omega point "the neutron star" its all under her own power because the crystal is her heart as stated in 460.

Ummm you only have proof that Wanda warped earths reality under her own power. Her inexperience caused the chaos wave which warped everything else and is running through creation. Bigger feat than we've seen wanda achieve directly im afraid.

No the global alteration isnt referring to that. That doesnt make nearly as much sense. Wanda ripped a hole in reality through inexperience with her powers. Just like Legion did it by tampering with the M'kraan crystal. Given that the chaos wave wasnt wandas own power you have absolutely nothing to go on. All this speculation simply isnt good enough. When you can show me an on panel feat achieved by Wanda directly that equals Jean holding 616 in her hand and restructuring it then we'll talk. Phoenix has her beat for on panel feats achieved via her own power, plus the fact that shes an aspect of god says it all. On top of that shes called the ultimate mutation for a reason Dem.

But if you look at the graphics of the reality wave, realities were destroyed and shifted all over the place. Multiple versions of Rogue and others were seen flying through space and time.

Answered above

Roma didnt say the affect would reach the white hot room. The word ascension isnt good enough Demi. Your argument relies too much on speculation and it lacks on panel feats achieved directly by Wandas hand. The chaos wave is the result of wandas power acting as a catalyst.

Youre speculating on Wandas abilities. Your analogy is unclear to me lol however theres no concrete evidence that Wanda can directly warp reality beyond a global scale. Her amateur attempts caused the chaos wave that swept through creation collapsing/ warping reality. When you have scans which show clearly that wanda directly (not using her power as a catalyst) can match or better phoenixes on panel feats then you'll have a point. As it stands her power can be a catalyst to break down reality if she so chooses, however she has no control over the chaos wave it doesnt derive from her. All it does, all it destroys is not a feat of wandas. Her definite absolutely 100 % definite feat is warping earth 616 and thats that.

Phoenix wins. 😱

Holly shit when did you rite this.

I have a essay due soon you think you can help

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Bah! You're just titchy cos no one else thinks Jubes could Paf the omniverse.
😆

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Beyond global.
New Thunderbolts - how many star systems does the K'ree empire span? How many other races do they encounter?
Exiles - Heather states reality 616 has been altered.
Uncanny X-Men - The initial alteration hits Otherworld. And Roma and Saturnyne intend to destroy the entire reality to save the omniverse. Roma is most fond of reality 616 she wouldn't destroy the entire thing if she didn't have to.
Speculative. If I get a tatoo or an implant I've been altered. even if its a small tatoo on my toe.

And we've seen why the multiverse is in danger, but as was said that is not directly wanda's fault.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Do you expect them to have a random comic showing how she changed the rest of the universe? Whose gonna fork out money for that?
Marvel appearently.

She said no mutants right? Mutants aren't limited to earth. Thanos for example was a mutant.

Originally posted by demigawd
she can do a whole hell of a lot more than just tearing a little hole. She can just unmake the whole thing just by tearing the whole thing apart, not just a hole. No chaos wave necessary.

Speculation Demi you have no proof of this and thats what this comes down to. You're trying to say wanda could collapse reality directly via her own power? Totally unfounded. 😱

Originally posted by kgkg
Holly shit when did you rite this.

I have a essay due soon you think you can help

So did you actually read it or did you just type that up when you saw the post?

Originally posted by Creshosk
So did you actually read it or did you just type that up when you saw the post?

wait let me read it

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You gotta love Roma and her flowery language. Respek Roma!

Creshy you know it was beyond global.😉

Its stated clearly it was global. Thats what she did directly by herself. Her inexperience caused the chaos wave which did the rest.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Speculation Demi you have no proof of this and thats what this comes down to. You're trying to say wanda could collapse reality directly via her own power? Totally unfounded. 😱
Apperently that's is what's happening. But she opened a crack in the damn which is going to wash away the town, rather than her destorying the twon directly herself. . .