Milla told me I shouldn't be in this thread because I don't know what I'm talking about, then accused me of knowing less than her (assumption) because she does a course or studies it or what not. Which was not only ignorant, but wrong. I found that offensive being that I have actually witnessed it. Then to cap it off she decides to post a net link and accuse people of assuming. Hypocritical. So when I turn the tide and ask her how much domestic violence she's actually been through or experienced (it should be some, if she's gonna call everyone uneducated) she bails out and calls me patronising, regardless of her making a horrific assumption.
If she's gonna chime back in I'd rather she show some respect and either apologise or answer my question.
As for my comment to you, I was speaking with regards to a woman attacking unprovoked. Not some man battering her and her retaliating. I agree with you there.
-AC
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, WD, but I do not agree. AC has asked fair questions of Lil's points and she has refused to answer. That is her right, but I don't think AC should feel any heat for it.
Quite personally I don't think anyone should feel any heat. But that is irrelevant to the discussion. My secondary point in this arguement is that couples involved in domestic violence should seek marriage counseling. Many people have this absurd belief that Marriage Counseling= Divorce. Which is not necessarly (sp?) true.One of the purpose of Marriage counseling is to reduce the chances of violence in homes (even Family counseling works). And as I pointed out early my primary point is that Self Defense is perfectly fine for anyone who suffers during a domestic dispute.
There was an interesting documentary on HBO a while ago about this sort of thing. I think it was called "Brett killed Mom" or something to that effect. The point being, that the mother in this four-person family was physically, verbally and mentally abusive to the other members of this family. She was particularly hard on the son, Brett. The father travelled often....eventually the older sister went off to school...and that left Brett there, alone mostly, with this woman. Eventually, she had reached his breaking point....and he stabbed her. She died on teh floor of their kitchen and the son is in jail. I think that is an example of justifiable homicide. But, I think a lot of the blame should be placed on the father's shoulders.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, I think a lot of the blame should be placed on the father's shoulders.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Personally, I do find it uncomfortable when people say "I have been brought up to respect women so I never hit them."What, so you don't respect men? What happened to respecting PEOPLE in general?
I would far rather say "I don't hit anyone" rather than try and make "I don't hit women" sound like a good thing, because that is actually saying "I DO hit men and I have no problem with that" which is hardly laudable.
It irritates me that a weak guy who can't defend himself is somehow a fair target, but a fit, strong woman (who could, for example, easily beat the shit out of me) is someone you are not meant to hit back against.
Women are more likely to be weak, this is true, but in that case it's still the weakness that counts, not some odd idea that women can't be hit (which ultimately comes down to thinking women are inferior). As I say, best to say you don't use violence at all.
Good points.
I always find that chivalry and equality are very uneasy bedfellows.
Originally posted by Spelljammer
How can you blame the father? He's not psychic, he probably had no idea of the abuse that was going on.. What with never being home.. Here he is thinking's he's working hard to support his family, meanwhile his ***** wife is destroying thier family. How is he to blame?
Don't misunderstand. He knew what was going on. He just pulled the typical American male bullshit and did nothing about it, because she was a woman. Granted, he thought she was excessive in her "discipline", but the bad part was that things got worse when he wasn't around...but he was there enough to see it. He simply did nothing...because what would a man feel if he told everyone that his wife was verbally abusive to him...and physically, mentally, verbally abusive to his kids? That would have served as a indictment of his masculinity. So, he said and did nothing.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Don't misunderstand. He knew what was going on. He just pulled the typical American male bullshit and did nothing about it, because she was a woman. Granted, he thought she was excessive in her "discipline", but the bad part was that things got worse when he wasn't around...but he was there enough to see it. He simply did nothing...because what would a man feel if he told everyone that his wife was verbally abusive to him...and physically, mentally, verbally abusive to his kids? That would have served as a indictment of his masculinity. So, he said and did nothing.
It's just as bad when the mothers do nothing about an abusive father. There is no excuse for the abuse. SpellJammer knows it must be difficult to contend with such an intimidating force, but for the sake of your children if not yourself, you have to be the bigger person..
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Personally, I do find it uncomfortable when people say "I have been brought up to respect women so I never hit them."What, so you don't respect men? What happened to respecting PEOPLE in general?
I would far rather say "I don't hit anyone" rather than try and make "I don't hit women" sound like a good thing, because that is actually saying "I DO hit men and I have no problem with that" which is hardly laudable.
Agreed. That's amazing. I actually agree with Ush..😉
Each "Johnny beat me" story should be judged on a case by case basis.
If you hit Johnny before he beat you, then guess what? You ain't a victim.
If you screamed at Johnny, spit in his face, got in his way as he tried to walk out the door..and Johnny gives you the big Ol left hook to get you out of his way..then guess what? You ain't a victim.
If you start throwing pots and dishes at Johnny, and Johnny picks you up and throws you out of the damn window..then guess what? You ain't a victim.
Don't get me wrong..I'm not justifying violent reactions. I am however, stating that we all have to be responsable for our behavior. Male and Female. If you act like an a**hole or a b*tch, then don't be surprised if you get some type of adverse/negative reaction from the person whom you have mistreated verbally/physically. Real simple stuff to understand.
Originally posted by BackFire
This thread's convinced me..I'm going to beat up the next woman who looks at me wrong/cuts me off/nags at me/argues with me/is on pms/won't put out. Equallity and all, right?
Let's just put it this way..if a woman wants to be like a "man" then realize and accept all the "cons" that go along with the "pros" of being like a man.
Personally..I don't judge anyone differently. If you come at me with a knife...be you male/female/gay/straight/black/white/chinese/whateva..then expect for yo ass to be laid flat out on the ground...unconcious.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Let's just put it this way..if a woman wants to be like a "man" then realize and accept all the "cons" that go along with the "pros" of being like a man.Personally..I don't judge anyone differently. If you come at me with a knife...be you male/female/gay/straight/black/white/chinese/whateva..then expect for yo ass to be laid flat out on the ground...unconcious.
Agreed 100%
Re: Domestic Violence against women...Overrated?!!
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Is "Domestic Violence" against women as big of a problem as many make it out to be in the United States? Now before you all start to flame me with feminist rhetoric..hear me out.A lot of times domestic conflicts between the sexes are actually initiated by the women. I've known of many women who verbally assault their husbands each day. Some upon the moment they walk through the door. Some women will taunt/verbally abuse their husbands for months on end, throwing insults at them, berating them, throwing stuff at them, etc...even as the man attempts to walk away from the conflicts.
Finally after years of heaping the abuse, the dude just can't take it anymore and he just snaps, leaving the women a bloody mess. The guy gets put in jail, get's labeled as a wife batterer...etc..etc..you know the drill, while the women get's portrayed as this innocent victim..who bears no responsability in the situation.
Should women be held partially liable during domestic disputes, particularly those disputes which involve a history of verbal threats/abuse/and antagonistic behavior against their spouses?
Discuss.
Have you ever watched an episode of cops? even the single poorest representation of america and crime shows that whoever throws the first punch, instigates the fight, etc is the first to go to jail, male or female. If they're both equally as responsible, they both go to jail