But, leo, you said yourself that half the big stuff Thor has done, was done forever ago and hasn't done anything like it since.
But, you do have a point, if we take into account everything he's ever done, I'd still see him losing, but not because he's is less powerful, but because he's slower.
Surfer's speed is nearly the death nail on all his fights.
Originally posted by kgkg
That’s not pissed of Thor.That’s insane thor.
Get your facts strait
If he gets pissed of he doesn’t get that strong he was mentally ill
Normal is nowhere near that level.
Heck BRB knocked Thor out.
But the thing you're missing is....he wasn't insane. It was Warrior's Madness. In Nordic history, it's where a Viking works himself up into an incredible frenzy prior to a battle. It's the equivalent of Wolverine's berzerker rage. It's totally within the realm of Thor's own power - he just let it go unchecked. So as far as I'm concerned, it's as valid as people using berzerker rages for Wolverine....or superspeed bloodlust for Surfer.
Either way, in their conflicts, Thor was always shown in a better light. He was shown in a better light when Surfer was amped up by Loki, AND he was shown in a better light when he had his Warrior's Madness. Which was my original point anyway.
Originally posted by long pig
But, leo, you said yourself that half the big stuff Thor has done, was done forever ago and hasn't done anything like it since.But, you do have a point, if we take into account everything he's ever done, I'd still see him losing, but not because he's is less powerful, but because he's slower.
Surfer's speed is nearly the death nail on all his fights.
About Surfer's superspeed and CIS - considering that Thor has beaten the likes of Gladiator and gotten the best of Surfer, two of Marvel's premier speedsters, on multiple occasions, I'd say it's not CIS, but rather, Thor's godly nature allows him to perceive and react to their speed powers. Similar to Deathstroke's ability to see what's going on at lightspeed.
And I'd say of the two, only Gladiator has really show strong superspeed combat capabilities. I'm underwhelmed by Surfer's skill at applying superspeed to combat. I'd go as far as to say it's an "activated power}
<<About Surfer's superspeed and CIS - considering that Thor has beaten the likes of Gladiator and gotten the best of Surfer, two of Marvel's premier speedsters, on multiple occasions, I'd say it's not CIS, but rather, Thor's godly nature allows him to perceive and react to their speed powers. Similar to Deathstroke's ability to see what's going on at lightspeed.
And I'd say of the two, only Gladiator has really show strong superspeed combat capabilities. I'm underwhelmed by Surfer's skill at applying superspeed to combat. I'd go as far as to say it's an "activated power}>>
yep. ss HAS shown the ability to dodge the hammer on one occasion, but at the same time thor has shown he can absorb the ss's blasts.
and long, all the things i cited earlier happened recently -- or at least well after issue 400. his first fight with ss was quite a while ago, but thor didn't do anything out of character in that fight and so it remains a valid canon battle.
thor beats ss.
Originally posted by demigawd
But the thing you're missing is....he wasn't insane. It was Warrior's Madness. In Nordic history, it's where a Viking works himself up into an incredible frenzy prior to a battle. It's the equivalent of Wolverine's berzerker rage. It's totally within the realm of Thor's own power - he just let it go unchecked. So as far as I'm concerned, it's as valid as people using berzerker rages for Wolverine....or superspeed bloodlust for Surfer.Either way, in their conflicts, Thor was always shown in a better light. He was shown in a better light when Surfer was amped up by Loki, AND he was shown in a better light when he had his Warrior's Madness. Which was my original point anyway.
But not in marvel
Thor get's mad but doesn't get inscane it made him many times more powerful than his usally powers that why he was owning BRB
BRB is better than Thor , and has defeated him
Thor doesn't strand a chance , Thor can defeat him using simple Speed , Stoping his hammer tactic.
For 10/10 win.
People need to bring Mad thor. REad of on the madness sickness and how he was many times more powerful.
Warrior Madness Thor is a whole different animal than regular Thor.
And about Mjolnir...without it Thor would get severely, severely owned by Norrin or any other herald. Thor and Mjolnir are not "one". Thats more like hyperbole. Despite the current series, any directory describing Mjolnir will demonstrate that it does contribute to Thor's powers. This is due to the fact that several enchantments were explicitely placed on it by Odin. Do u think that the enchantment preventing any except the pure of heart lifting it was created by Thor? Even if Thor wanted to he couldnt seperate himself from Mjolnir ie. his brief fight with Champion, Thor admitted himself the enchantment of his father wouldnt allow him to be seperated from it. How about flight, teleportation, energy absorbtion? These are all enchantments independent of Thor. Without Mj. he would be able to fly, teleport, etc. However, although the current series may show him achieving some weather manipulations w/o Mj. maybe thats cuz he's the thunder god and should have some thunder powers of his own without the hammer. Although I still believe that most of his weather powers lie in the hammer because weather manipulation is another of the many enchantments it possesses.
Surfer may concede that the hammer holds more power than himself under normal circumstances. But this is hardly a permanent problem for him. Surfer could always find some star and siphon energy off it...then he's back in the game (He destroyed a planet using this tactic in the Infinity Crusade). Regardless, the power of the Hammer demonstrates the power of Odin, not Thor.
Originally posted by leonidas
now it's 10/10??last time you were at least saying thor could get some wins with godforce and that it would be a very tough fight . . .
I think you are the one arguing that Thor has failed to hit Spider in Supes vs Thor thread.
Now SS has shown many times the ability to go that fast.
like that no there isn't much thor can't do.
Thor can definity win if his Godforce connects to surfer.
as for absorbing how many bolts is he going to absorb when SS is going beyond lightspeed? none
Originally posted by Wynndar
Warrior Madness Thor is a whole different animal than regular Thor.And about Mjolnir...without it Thor would get severely, severely owned by Norrin or any other herald. Thor and Mjolnir are not "one". Thats more like hyperbole. Despite the current series, any directory describing Mjolnir will demonstrate that it does contribute to Thor's powers. This is due to the fact that several enchantments were explicitely placed on it by Odin. Do u think that the enchantment preventing any except the pure of heart lifting it was created by Thor? Even if Thor wanted to he couldnt seperate himself from Mjolnir ie. his brief fight with Champion, Thor admitted himself the enchantment of his father wouldnt allow him to be seperated from it. How about flight, teleportation, energy absorbtion? These are all enchantments independent of Thor. Without Mj. he would be able to fly, teleport, etc. However, although the current series may show him achieving some weather manipulations w/o Mj. maybe thats cuz he's the thunder god and should have some thunder powers of his own without the hammer. Although I still believe that most of his weather powers lie in the hammer because weather manipulation is another of the many enchantments it possesses.
Surfer may concede that the hammer holds more power than himself under normal circumstances. But this is hardly a permanent problem for him. Surfer could always find some star and siphon energy off it...then he's back in the game (He destroyed a planet using this tactic in the Infinity Crusade). Regardless, the power of the Hammer demonstrates the power of Odin, not Thor.
what people don't realise
Mad Thor > SS , Drax , BRB etc he took them with extreme ease.
In the comics, Thor might win over Surfer a few, but in a bloodlusted no cis/pis vs fight, he has very very very small chances.
Surfer can react at way over lightspeed, it's been proven many times. If he starts out this way, Thor won't be able to handle it. Thor doesn't have lightspeed reflexes.
I'd give Thor a stalemate in the comics with both characters acting in character, but here, Thor gets a 2/10.
not sure of your point, wyn. thor has the hammer. i never said he was ONE with the hammer. and you're right, it is more odin's power. that changes nothing though because thor is still using it.
<<Surfer may concede that the hammer holds more power than himself under normal circumstances. But this is hardly a permanent problem for him. Surfer could always find some star and siphon energy off it...then he's back in the game>>
not if thor continues to siphon until ss is dead ala the presence, or just holds his hammer and has it absorb whatever ss is throwing at him. or if he creates a coccoon that is impenetrable as he has before. or if he transports ss to a land where pc fails (like the universe where galactus's power failed). or transports him to a land where there IS no cosmic energy (like the sphere stranger trapped him in).
to say ss would speedblitz and beat thor is, truly, laughable. thor has actually beaten and injured galactus!! and yet ss is somehow so much beyond thor now that ss wins 10/10?
as far as hitting spidey . . . you're right, but he was attacking physically -- until he used energy and then spidey of course had no chance to evade.
in reality, (all kmc rules aside) it would likely be a great fight. your idea of a speedblitz is (if i'm being honest) no more or less silly than my saying thor would absorb every blast then drain ss to death. BOTH arguments do seem applicable under forum rules, however. the difference between the arguments? thor HAS drained a very powerful energy wielder to the point of death. when has ss speedblitzed and killed or instantly beaten anyone of thor's level?
I think you guys all harp way too much on lightspeed as being the answer to all battles. Using that logic, SS can easily beat Galactus by blasting at full power millions of times per second. Why not, right?
Except I don't see enough lightspeed combat feats for Surfer. Unlike someone like Superman, or even Gladiator, who are both comfortable with fighting at that speed, I've never gotten that impression from Surfer. That's why I keep seeing the same scan over and over again - and none of them involve him doing superman-esque feats of combat speed. Post scans of SS fighting someone at all angles at once like we see Superman doing. Post scans of SS kicking someone away, then grabbing an iron beam and tying around his opponent while the opponent is still in the air from the previous kick, like we see Gladiator doing. THEN, maybe I'll buy into some victories for Surfer. But his superspeed combat talents are severely overrated, and his offensive/defensive capabilities are simply not on par with Thor's.
And again, Warrior's Madness Thor is just a Thor completely unleashed. An unleashed Thor (who could go into Warrior's Madness whenever he wants, by the way) IS far beyond BRB, SS and Drax. It just shows how much Thor holds back all the time. If you can give SS superspeed combat powers that he never uses, then I can unleash Thor at his fullest.
Not that it's even necessary - the offensive capabilities of Mjolnir are just so far beyond Surfer that it's hardly a comparison.
I'm not even going to address the idea that Mjolnir should be weighed separately from Thor. Let's separate Thor from Mjolnir and Surfer from the power cosmic and see how that goes. What's that you say? No? Didn't think so.
Thor 7/10.
Originally posted by demigawd
I think you guys all harp way too much on lightspeed as being the answer to all battles. Using that logic, SS can easily beat Galactus by blasting at full power millions of times per second. Why not, right?
I would say Galactus is faster and much more powerful than the guy he created.
<<And again, Warrior's Madness Thor is just a Thor completely unleashed. An unleashed Thor (who could go into Warrior's Madness whenever he wants, by the way) IS far beyond BRB, SS and Drax. It just shows how much Thor holds back all the time. If you can give SS superspeed combat powers that he never uses, then I can unleash Thor at his fullest.>>
damn, man. did you read an earlier post i made?? HA! i said the EXACT -- i mean word for word -- same thing. wm thor is just thor unleashed. i've often contended that in TRUE bloodlust, this is exactly the way thor would battle. yet everyone says they are like 2 seperate entities. in a battle with hulk (the medina drawn one) thor battled hulk for a long time and was building up to warrior madness. it's not seperate from him -- even he needs to reach deep down and is angry enough, it comes over him.
long, your points are taken, however, thor in wm mode EASILY crushed ss. wm thor was no faster (by any indication) than regular thor, but ss couldn't/didn't blitz.
again, the speedblitz option has never been performed by ss. the options i give for thor he HAS done in book. which is seemingly more valid?
<<I would say Galactus is faster and much more powerful than the guy he created.>>
i sort of THOUGHT that was implied when i brought galactus up. 🙂
<<You might not have seen enough lightspeed feats, but I've seen plently. Plently enough for me to give him the edge over nearly anyone who can't compete with that speed.>>
i'm curious -- what makes you believe thor can't compete against it? he has beaten ss before, beaten glads. you've never seen anyone try attacking him as you think ss would/could. so how do you know he COULDN'T stop it? and what's to keep thor from instantly draining him and keeping him from reaching that speed?