On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Originally posted by Alliance
People are bullied for every reason...I'm "bullied" for being smart, white, a swimmer...who gives a f*ck? We live in a real world, not a world of artificial happiness and designed societies.

Have you ever been nearly beaten to death for being white ? Have young boys and girls looked at you funny for kissing your girlfreind ?
Have your parents disowned you, kicked you out of the house, or were they ever ashamed of having you in front of guests because of your race or status ?

Please do not compare the bullying that homosexual boys go through in comparison to the bullying that "smart, white, swimmers" go through, okay ? 😬

Originally posted by Alliance
Gays are being bullied just like every other kid. So what? the world is not 90% gay. its 90% straigt. Get over that.

Gays are bullied far more in the United States than any other minority is. Do your research.

Yes people are bullied for various reasons, that is true. But homosexuality is still at the bottom of the "social foodchain" in most schools.

All bigotry is different and unique. For a smart person like you to clump all bigotry and forms of bullying into one black or white description is cowardly and stupid.

Originally posted by Alliance
Not only does your solution hurt gays, its hurts the communities by reducing exposure to homosexuality

What solution are you talking about ?

I never went to that High School Harvey Milk. I would never want to go...why the hell would I wanna go to a school full of stuck up, overtly feminine, high pitched voiced, whiney, bratty, b*tchy gay guys ?

SAme reason I avoided FIT and went to SVA instead.

However, just because I don't seek a school like Harvey Milk as a refuge and chose to go to a predominantly straight school like SVA doesn't mean other young men have to make the same choice I made.

I am not encouraging Gays to go to an all gay school, nor do I think it is necessary.

However, i WILL DEFEND a Gay Student's decision to attend Harvey Milk if that is what they feel they want to do.

They will face discrimination elsewhere....why do they have to face it in school ? Because people like you think it's cowardly ? Get over yourself already Alliance.

Originally posted by Alliance
.if blacks were never integrated into schools, you can bet segregation would have lasted a last longer, as would have discrimination. This is the same scenario. Integration will reduce societal pressure.

Gays are integrated in every single school already, what the **** is your point ?

Originally posted by Alliance
it also stikes me as awkward that people can actually have a sexuality in high-school. Exactly. Segrgating into "safe zones" is more divisive. Same arguments as segrgation, just comming from the minority this time...

you act as if all Gays are planning to go to this High School. Stop being paranoid.

There are a decent number of straights who go to Harvey Milk. It just so happens that most of the students are Gay. WHY ?

Because the school is named after a Gay man who was a victim of gay bashing...yes...a school finally named after a Homosexual man, instead of being named after a straight white male, or a straight black male.

o0o0o0o we're not ready for that yet are we ? 🙄

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
According to the National School Climate Survey, over a third of gay students experienced physical harassment at school on the basis of sexual orientation, and nearly one-in-five gay students had been physically assaulted because of their sexual orientation. As a result, gay students are five times more likely to have skipped school in the last month because of safety concerns than the general population of students. We are not exactly talking about name calling here.

Indeed. Schools with comprehensive policies that specifically address bullying and harassment based on sexual orientation have lower incidences of harassment, and higher rates of intervention by school staff when anti-gay harassment occurs.

Adam Poe good points 👆

Did you also know that the HIGHEST RATE OF TEEN SUICIDE IS COMPOSED OF GAY STUDENTS ?

Think about that Alliance...think about what you are saying and what facts you are denying.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
According to the National School Climate Survey, over a third of gay students experienced physical harassment at school on the basis of sexual orientation, and nearly one-in-five gay students had been physically assaulted because of their sexual orientation. As a result, gay students are five times more likely to have skipped school in the last month because of safety concerns than the general population of students. We are not exactly talking about name calling here.

No, we're not. And was violence against African Americans during integration solved by taking blacks out of public schools?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Indeed. Schools with comprehensive policies that specifically address bullying and harassment based on sexual orientation have lower incidences of harassment, and higher rates of intervention by school staff when anti-gay harassment occurs.

I think every school should have a policy addressing violence against homosexual students, as they should against any sort of bigoted violence in general. That solves problems.

That doens't mean that we should start gay high schools. There is a differnce between addressing discrimination and violence and fleeing a problem to make ourselves feel a little bit more comfortable.

You want gay rights? FIGHT FOR THEM. This isn't a pussyfoot dance. If gays want to run and hide, they don't deserve thier rights and they don't deserve the time I spend fighting for them. How many black people were lynched during desegregation. I think gays today have it comparatively easier. Kids are becomming more and more accepting of homosexuality because they have firends who are homosexual or know someone who is. If we take those kids out of schools, we just delay this violence until after high school and retard social progress. i don't think anyone wants that.

There are a decent number of straights who go to Harvey Milk. It just so happens that most of the students are Gay. WHY ?

Because the school is named after a Gay man who was a victim of gay bashing...yes...a school finally named after a Homosexual man, instead of being named after a straight white male, or a straight black male.

o0o0o0o we're not ready for that yet are we ?

Have you ever been nearly beaten to death for being white ?

The other questions you asked Alliance are irrelevant, there are a number of reasons other than homosexuality why parents would be ashamed of their children to the point of cutting them from their lives.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Have you ever been nearly beaten to death for being white ? Have young boys and girls looked at you funny for kissing your girlfreind ?
Have your parents disowned you, kicked you out of the house, or were they ever ashamed of having you in front of guests because of your race or status ?

no, but you're a fool for thinking that this only happens to homosexuals and only because they are homosexual. Kids get bullied for everything. Suck it up like the rest of us and like the rest of minorities throughout history.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Yes people are bullied for various reasons, that is true. But homosexuality is still at the bottom of the "social foodchain" in most schools.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I never went to that High School Harvey Milk. I would never want to go...why the hell would I wanna go to a school full of stuck up, overtly feminine, high pitched voiced, whiney, bratty, b*tchy gay guys ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
They will face discrimination elsewhere....why do they have to face it in school?

Why should gays have to face discrimination anywhere?

Using your logic, its perfectly fine to disengage form any social institution, just because you're discriminated against. That doesn't solve discrimination, it prolongs it.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Gays are integrated in every single school already, what the **** is your point?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Because the school is named after a Gay man who was a victim of gay bashing...yes...a school finally named after a Homosexual man, instead of being named after a straight white male, or a straight black male.

A new report prepared by University of B.C. researcher Elizabeth Saewyc and released by the McCreary Center Society of Vancouver says gay, lesbian and bisexual teens face more violence than heterosexuals.

The report found that gay, lesbian and bisexual teens were up to three times as likely to suffer physical and sexual abuse or harassment in school, as well as discrimination.

What's the point? No one is saying high school students shouldn't be taught to accept diversity but ostracizing gay kids from the real heterosexual majority society is moronic.

Originally posted by Alliance
No, we're not. And was violence against African Americans during integration solved by taking blacks out of public schools?

Perhaps you should ask rhetorical questions of someone who supports segregation.

Originally posted by Alliance
That doens't mean that we should start gay high schools. There is a differnce between addressing discrimination and violence and fleeing a problem to make ourselves feel a little bit more comfortable.

While segregation is not a solution to discrimination and violence, there is also a need for an institution that meets the educational needs of children in crisis. Harvey Milk High School services only a small portion of the youth population; students who have been removed from traditional schools because they have been subject to extreme levels of harassment and violence.

Originally posted by Alliance
You want gay rights? FIGHT FOR THEM.

No, I do not want gay rights; I want equal rights.

Originally posted by Alliance
This isn't a pussyfoot dance. If gays want to run and hide, they don't deserve thier rights and they don't deserve the time I spend fighting for them.

One supports equal rights because it is the right thing to do. If your support of equality is conditional, then you should consider whether you are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or the wrong thing for the right reasons.

Originally posted by Alliance
How many black people were lynched during desegregation. I think gays today have it comparatively easier.

Explain that to the parents of Matthew Sheppard.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
While segregation is not a solution to discrimination and violence, there is also a need for an institution that meets the educational needs of children in crisis. Harvey Milk High School services only a small portion of the youth population; students who have been removed from traditional schools because they have been subject to extreme levels of harassment and violence.

What the hell is a "traditional school" anyway.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, I do not want gay rights; I want [b]equal rights.[/B]

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
One supports equal rights because it is the right thing to do. If your support of equality is conditional, then you should consider whether you are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or the wrong thing for the right reasons.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Explain that to the parents of Matthew Sheppard.

No one denies that there is violence. No one denies that there is discrimination. Did I ever deny either of those things? No, I did not. Compare numbers...its called objectivity. I haven't seen the national gaurd called in to escort four gays to school.

The issue here is wether or not "safe schools" are actually going to improve the situation or delay it. Removing kids from schools because they are bullied, or called f*gs, or had someone spit in thier lunch doesn't solve the problem. If there is serious violence, there are better ways to solve the problem. Ignoring the PROBLEM doesn't solve it.

Originally posted by Alliance
Define extreme...and did you conduct a survey.

Levels of harrassment and violence that justify removing a child from tradtional school for his or her safety.

The vast majority of Harvey Milk’s students—some 80 percent—are blacks and Latinos from New York's worst school districts; Harlem, the Bronx, East New York—kids whose sexuality has opened them up to excessive harassment and violence from their peers.

Originally posted by Alliance
It seems that this is a situation of convinence for many people, and not necessity.

Did you conduct a survey?

Originally posted by Alliance
What the hell is a "traditional school" anyway.

A school that does not traditionally specialize in or may not be equipped to meet the educational needs of at-risk children or children in crisis.

A majority of Harvey Milk High School students are Title I or poverty level, and 20% are homeless.

Originally posted by Alliance
Yes. I see your point. However, issues like sodomy could be considered solely gay rights issues. Sodomy was equally illegal, but its ban was anti-homosexual. I doubt many straights cared about sodomy laws. The point is that in addition to equal rights, they're shouldn't be indirect discrimination against minorities, in this case gays.

For most of the 20th century, sodomy laws were used as secondary charges in cases of sexual assault, sex with children, and sex in public involving heterosexual sex. Sodomy laws were not used distinctly against gay people until the late 1960s.

Originally posted by Alliance
I know I'm doing the right thing. However, if gays aren't going to do it themselves too, my efforts will be ultimately useless. This is not a free lunch.

Conditional support of equality is "the right thing"?

Originally posted by Alliance
No one denies that there is violence. No one denies that there is discrimination. Did I ever deny either of those things? No, I did not. Compare numbers...its called objectivity. I haven't seen the national gaurd called in to escort four gays to school.

I have not seen an analogy as false on as many levels as this one.

Originally posted by Alliance
The issue here is wether or not "safe schools" are actually going to improve the situation or delay it.

That depends on the situation in question. A safe school is certainly going to improve the situation of students who may not otherwise complete school due to physical harrassment and violence.

Originally posted by Alliance
Removing kids from schools because they are bullied, or called f*gs, or had someone spit in thier lunch doesn't solve the problem.

If the children in question are being removed from traditional schools simply because they are being bullied, called ****, or have had someone spit in their lunch, you might have an argument.

Originally posted by Alliance

Yes. I see your point. However, issues like sodomy could be considered solely gay rights issues. Sodomy was equally illegal, but its ban was anti-homosexual. I doubt many straights cared about sodomy laws. The point is that in addition to equal rights, they're shouldn't be indirect discrimination against minorities, in this case gays.

Originally posted by Alliance
no, but you're a fool for thinking that this only happens to homosexuals and only because they are homosexual. Kids get bullied for everything. Suck it up like the rest of us and like the rest of minorities throughout history.

I never said it only happens to homosexuals. Stop putting words in my mouth. That is a horrible habit you have. You can't directly attack what I am actually saying, so you warp my argument in an attempt to appear correct ? Pathetic 👇

Secondly, I have faced my discrimination face to face. I am not talking about ME. I am defending the rights of Gay students who do not want to go to a broken down ghetto school, such as those in the Bronx and Brooklyn where being Gay is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE, and is automatic reason for them to either get beaten nearly to death or killed.

If a Latino/Black student chooses to attend Harvey Milk where he or she will not have to face violence for being homosexual, instead of attending I.S. 145, or Brooklyn Tech, where they will indefinately be beaten and harassed for being themselves, then what ****ing problem do you have with it Alliance ?

Adam Poe has brought facts to the table backing up my point about the Harvey Milk High School, and you keep ignoring it. Stop being a coward, stop thinking black and white, and face what is actually happening here.

Originally posted by Alliance
So explain how leaving most schools solves that problem?

Whose talking about leaving schools ? Are you blind ? Can you read ? Or is your dislike of me so intense that you see only what you want to see ?

Harvey Milk High School has an absolute ZERO TOLERANCE of discrimination of any kind, and since in New York City schools, discrimination against Gay and Lesbian Students happens to be the highest form of alumni bigotry, this school focuses on Gay-freindly environment.

Racism is NOT as big an issue in NYC schools as Homophobia and Heterosexism are. That is just Fact. You obviously do not live in NY. So shut your mouth about crap you know nothing about.

Like Adam Poe already stated. The majority of alumni at Harvey Milk are Latino/Black students who have faced horrible harassment and physical threats from thier previous schools.

Originally posted by Alliance
Sounds like someone's got some stereotype issues...

Sounds like someone can't face reality, therefore invents his own 😬

Originally posted by Alliance
Why should gays have to face discrimination anywhere?

They shouldn't. No one should. Atleast we agree on something.

Originally posted by Alliance
Using your logic, its perfectly fine to disengage form any social institution, just because you're discriminated against. That doesn't solve discrimination, it prolongs it.

If an individual student chooses not to go to a place where he or she will be tormented for who he or she is, then he or she has the right to decline that institution.

What is your problem with that ?

Let's say I have two choices:

First choice...Jerry Falwell's Liberty Academy, where being Gay is punishable by expulsion. Or Harvey Milk, or some other Gay freindly school, where I can be myself without legal consequences being taken against me...which ****ing school do u thnk I would choose ?

Open ur fkn eyes

Originally posted by Alliance
If they're integrated...then what is the problem?

Gays are not integrated in every single school. In some yes, in some no. I do not have a problem with the way things are. YOU are the one who has a problem with the choices that Gay students are making in reference to where they decided to go. Why ?

Originally posted by Alliance
you're being retarded...as usual.

And you are being condescending, ignorant, and self-deluded...as usual

Originally posted by backdoorman
Wrong. The school was specially designed to be a LGBTQ-friendly place, that doesn't mean there are no heterosexual students though.

After Harvey Milk who was a victim of Gay Bashing 😬

What are you disagreeing about ?

Originally posted by backdoorman
The other questions you asked Alliance are irrelevant, there are a number of reasons other than homosexuality why parents would be ashamed of their children to the point of cutting them from their lives.

Homosexuality is the most common reason. Face the facts.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
After Harvey Milk who was a victim of Gay Bashing 😬

What are you disagreeing about ?

Homosexuality is the most common reason. Face the facts.

Wow, wow, wow, ****** please....numbers.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Wow, wow, wow, ****** please....numbers.

Make an argument or shut your mouth.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Make an argument or shut your mouth.

Well, lets see, I would like you to produce the statistics that support this "Homosexuality is the most common reason. Face the facts.". You got any? Or are you talking out of your unnaturally widened ass?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I am defending the rights of Gay students who do not want to go to a broken down ghetto school, such as those in the Bronx and Brooklyn where being Gay is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE, and is automatic reason for them to either get beaten nearly to death or killed.

I thought NYC was liberal....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Or are you talking out of your unnaturally widened ass?

😂

After Harvey Milk who was a victim of Gay Bashing

What are you disagreeing about ?

Homosexuality is the most common reason. Face the facts.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Wow, wow, wow, ****** please....numbers.

I demand acceptance of fat people. You obesophobes disgust me.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I demand acceptance of fat people. You obesophobes disgust me.

But hating fat people is human nature.