Sidious and Dooku versus Mace and Yoda

Originally posted by Escape81
And, once more, I stated before that Yoda is the most powerful being in the PT. Yoda is. Not Sidious. If people were going around slandering and doubting Dooku as they do Sidious, I'd be right there on the frontline to defend him. The fact of the matter is, while Dooku is superior to Sidious in saber ability, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll pound through Sidious's defenses. Yoda had a hell of a time doing it, and he's quicker than and at points stronger (!) than either Dooku or Sidious.

So, no. Dooku has a 50 percent chance at best. Sidious has a good chance of defending and weathering himself from Dooku's attacks. And as people so fondly say, 'Sidious catches his opponents off guard'. If Anakin caught Dooku off guard, Sidious sure as hell has a chance.

Dooku had a reason, though. If he fought Sidious, he probably would not hold back like he did with Anakin. And if Anakin caught Sidious off guard by throwing him into a shaft, what makes you think Dooku couldn't do the same?

Yoda is more powerful than Dooku and Sidious, yet he couldn't kill neither of them.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Yeah, he wants to kill his opponents immediately because he is Cowardly. Who the hell is gonna wanna fight people that are more powerful than him, correct?

Who wants to fight people that could cause him harm is more likely. GG was a coward(stated by GL, if you couldn't tell from watching him) yet he still defeated several Jedi in lightsaber combat who had more power than him.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Why would he try to suprise Dooku? Why would he have to? Isn't he more powerful than Dooku? Why would he need a suprise?

The more advantages the better.

Originally posted by Sorgo
If Sidious is so powerful, why does he need to suprise them all?

It's a better way to fight. It's called being smart and taking advantage of every possible advantage.

No, it's pure cowardice. He just can't comprehend being powerful enough to face them without surprising them. Dooku, Maul, Vader or the Jedi didn't kill their opponents by surprising them. Sidious seemed to have had to, or else he would have lost.

Sidious is obviously afraid to fight his opponents fairly. It isn't smart behaviour. He doesn't want his master plans ruined by him getting completely owned, so he has to use surprise techniques or he would get his ass kicked, which is kind of sad.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Dooku had a reason, though. If he fought Sidious, he probably would not hold back like he did with Anakin. And if Anakin caught Sidious off guard by throwing him into a shaft, what makes you think Dooku couldn't do the same?

They are fighting on the Death Star 2 by a reactor shaft and Sidious is going to be electrocuting some young child? No. Even if they were, Dooku couldn't. He isn't physically strong enough to lift Sidious over his head with one hand and carry him to a reactor shaft.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Yoda is more powerful than Dooku and Sidious, yet he couldn't kill neither of them.

Double-negative. You just implied Yoda killed both. lol. I'm just messing with you.

Anyway, Yoda was more power. He wasn't trying to kill Dooku, much like Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin. Sidious got a terrain advantage as well as thousands of approaching Clone Troopers. Yoda had to leave, but not becaus ehe was weaker.

Originally posted by Sorgo
No, it's pure cowardice. He just can't comprehend being powerful enough to face them without surprising them. Dooku, Maul, Vader or the Jedi didn't kill their opponents by surprising them. Sidious seemed to have had to, or else he would have lost.

How do you know this? Sidious came to you and told them he can't comprehend their power? Wow. Sidious didn't have to. The three Jedi in ROTS were not surprised. It took his several seconds after igniting a lightsaber before he actually attacked them.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Sidious is obviously afraid to fight his opponents fairly. It isn't smart behaviour. He doesn't want his master plans ruined by him getting completely owned, so he has to use surprise techniques or he would get his ass kicked, which is kind of sad.

He's not afraid, he choses to fight smarter than them. It is cowardice. Others have a sense of honor, he doesn't.

They are fighting on the Death Star 2 by a reactor shaft and Sidious is going to be electrocuting some young child? No. Even if they were, Dooku couldn't. He isn't physically strong enough to lift Sidious over his head with one hand and carry him to a reactor shaft.

No, but he could did what he did with Kenobi in Episode III and chuck him over the ledge.

Anyway, Yoda was more power. He wasn't trying to kill Dooku, much like Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin. Sidious got a terrain advantage as well as thousands of approaching Clone Troopers. Yoda had to leave, but not becaus ehe was weaker.

What makes you think Dooku wanted to kill Yoda? It was his old master, after all. You can't say Yoda didn't try to kill Dooku. He was grunting and he had a grim face while fighting Dooku. He was trying to break through Dooku to KILL him. He wasn't swinging around violently for no reason now. If he didn't wanna kill him, he would have used a different method.

How do you know this? Sidious came to you and told them he can't comprehend their power? Wow. Sidious didn't have to. The three Jedi in ROTS were not surprised. It took his several seconds after igniting a lightsaber before he actually attacked them.

Yes, he did! Even Dooku and other Sith had Honor, but that is irrelevant. He knew what would happen if he didn't surprise his opponents: DEATH!

Mace nearly ripped Sidious the f*ck apart while they were lightsaber dueling, because he didn't suprise Mace. Yoda got back up from Sidious' suprise, and stalemated with him.

He's not afraid, he choses to fight smarter than them. It is cowardice. Others have a sense of honor, he doesn't.

It isn't smarter, because it nearly killed him.

Originally posted by Sorgo
They are fighting on the Death Star 2 by a reactor shaft and Sidious is going to be electrocuting some young child? No. Even if they were, Dooku couldn't. He isn't physically strong enough to lift Sidious over his head with one hand and carry him to a reactor shaft.

No, but he could did what he did with Kenobi in Episode III and chuck him over the ledge. [/B]

Sidious is more capable in the force though. I doubt you can prove that Sidious is going to let Dooku throw him over. Vader had a major physical advantage.

Originally posted by Sorgo
What makes you think Dooku wanted to kill Yoda? It was his old master, after all. You can't say Yoda didn't try to kill Dooku. He was grunting and he had a grim face while fighting Dooku. He was trying to break through Dooku to KILL him. He wasn't swinging around violently for no reason now. If he didn't wanna kill him, he would have used a different method.

Dooku was a user of the Darkside. They kill Jedi. That is their goal. The goal of the Jedi is to sustain peace, killing only when necessary.

What is this different method, Sorgo?

Dooku was a user of the Dark side. They kill Jedi. That is their goal. The goal of the Jedi is to sustain peace, killing only when necessary.

What is this different method, Sorgo?

Wow.... Dooku still fought without utterly surprising people into their death, but rather challenging them within a basis of either Force Competition or Lightsaber competition. He did not just all out surprise people in the middle of a conversation like Sidious has done. He is Cowardice and Honorless to a staggering degree.

The Difference in the surprising methods. Killing someone during a fight surprise and engaging someone when they are not ready or trying to croak someone when they are not ready in surprise are two very different Animals.

Sidious surprising someone is rare. He is a coward, but he doesn't just surprise people.

Originally posted by Sorgo
It isn't smarter, because it nearly killed him.

Who ended up the Supreme ruler of ...everything? Who forced Yoda into exile? It was a wise decision. You can't say it wasn't smarter.

And for people saying that Sidious suprises people: Whaa Whaa, if only the Dark Lord of the Sith had a little more dignity and a lot less intellegence, then he would be a lot less cheap and a lot more dead.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Who ended up the Supreme ruler of ...everything? Who forced Yoda into exile? It was a wise decision. You can't say it wasn't smarter.

And for people saying that Sidious suprises people: Whaa Whaa, if only the Dark Lord of the Sith had a little more dignity and a lot less intellegence, then he would be a lot less cheap and a lot more dead.

Who was cornered by a broken window begging for their life like a Dog? Who got chucked into a Generator shaft like a Basketball into a hoop?

I CAN say it wasn't smarter. It was dumb and it got his ass killed. And he didn't rule everything. He was also overthrown by a smaller Rebel Army and a Jedi with three years of Experience. Not to mention he couldn't foresee his own apprentice killing him.

Damn, Intellegent indeed.

😄 So now you are going to argue against the Emperors intellegence? Proves the validity of your arguments.

Seriously Sorgo. The Emperor is VERY smart. No one else removed Jedi from the picture like he.

Dooku wasn't exactly smart, he believed he was the Chosen One.

See Sorgo, I don't usually outright debate, I set up and make it seem like people are worse debators (or not as well informed) as they really are.

Where was I, oh yeah, you thought that Sidious wan't smart. Theres not much more I can say to this than there is no way in Hell that that is correct.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Seriously Sorgo. The Emperor is VERY smart. No one else removed Jedi from the picture like he.

Dooku wasn't exactly smart, he believed he was the Chosen One.

Oh my god.... Now you're making direct assumptions?

1: No proof Dooku thought Anakin was the Chosen one.
2: No proof Sidious thought Anakin was NOT the Chosen one.

Wow, he took the Jedi out the picture only to be owned by his own apprentice and some Kid Jedi.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
😄 So now you are going to argue against the Emperors intellegence? Proves the validity of your arguments.

Pseudo Intellectualism? I think so.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Oh my god.... Now you're making direct assumptions?

1: No proof Dooku thought Anakin was the Chosen one.
2: No proof Sidious thought Anakin was NOT the Chosen one.

Wow, he took the Jedi out the picture only to be owned by his own apprentice and some Kid Jedi.

It was said that Dooku believed the the Chosen One would be a seasoned philosopher of sharp insight, solid character and the clarity to see the path to galactic enlightenment; who possessed the titanic willpower to walk it; and, most importantly, the charisma and leadership to carry others along with him.

Notice how well that fits Dooku.

Sidious was taken out by the most powerful Jedi ever and his apprentice in a surprise attack.

Sorgo, this argument has shown your full colors. You claim Sidious was smarter than Dooku, and now you turn tail and deny his intellect.

Sidious was clever enough to have orchestrated the destruction of the Jedi Order, something that not even the Ancient Sith Lords such as Marka Ragnos or Nadd or even Kun were able to do.

Sidious was clever enough to be a Sith Lord and still ascend to the highest level of the Republic government, under the noses of such Jedi as Yoda and Mace Windu, who are revered to have strong attunement to the Force.

Sidious was clever enough to control and manipulate TWO devestating wars in his lifetime, and the by-products of his tyranny have still yet to be reversed.

Sidious was clever enough to use Dooku and Grievous as well as the Confederacy of Independant Systems, and have them systematically executed without them being any the wiser, using them as mere pawns.

Sidious was clever enough to transform a millenia old Republic into a Galactic Empire, and into the mightiest military regime in the galaxy's history.

Sidious was clever enough to transform the man who was destined to destroy him into his personal slave and henchman.

Sidious was clever enough to manipulate the entire galaxy into making many fateful errors, and benefiting himself. Certainly, he had made his share of mistakes - thus resulting in his downfall. But please name to me a villain who never made a mistake and who never was defeated. I am very sorry, Sorgo, but Palpatine may very well be the most clever man in the galaxy in PT and OT times.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
It was said that Dooku believed the the Chosen One would be a seasoned philosopher of sharp insight, solid character and the clarity to see the path to galactic enlightenment; who possessed the titanic willpower to walk it; and, most importantly, the charisma and leadership to carry others along with him.

Notice how well that fits Dooku.

Sidious was taken out by the most powerful Jedi ever and his apprentice in a surprise attack.

The most powerful Jedi ever? HE wasn't even that powerful AT ALL by those times! That's the outrageously hilarious part! But wait! Sidious can foresee all this loads of crap, but he didn't forsee his own demise? Come on!