Originally posted by Escape81
Sorgo, this argument has shown your full colors. You claim Sidious was smarter than Dooku, and now you turn tail and deny his intellect.Sidious was clever enough to have orchestrated the destruction of the Jedi Order, something that not even the Ancient Sith Lords such as Marka Ragnos or Nadd or even Kun were able to do.
Sidious was clever enough to be a Sith Lord and still ascend to the highest level of the Republic government, under the noses of such Jedi as Yoda and Mace Windu, who are revered to have strong attunement to the Force.
Sidious was clever enough to control and manipulate TWO devestating wars in his lifetime, and the by-products of his tyranny have still yet to be reversed.
Sidious was clever enough to use Dooku and Grievous as well as the Confederacy of Independant Systems, and have them systematically executed without them being any the wiser, using them as mere pawns.
Sidious was clever enough to transform a millenia old Republic into a Galactic Empire, and into the mightiest military regime in the galaxy's history.
Sidious was clever enough to transform the man who was destined to destroy him into his personal slave and henchman.
Sidious was clever enough to manipulate the entire galaxy into making many fateful errors, and benefiting himself. Certainly, he had made his share of mistakes - thus resulting in his downfall. But please name to me a villain who never made a mistake and who never was defeated. I am very sorry, Sorgo, but Palpatine may very well be the most clever man in the galaxy in PT and OT times.
I said he was smarter than Dooku in CERTAIN ASPECTS. I obviously didn't mean entirely. Obviously you have made an Assumption. Now, Escape, Assumptions make an ass out of you and me.
Yeah, because the ancient Jedi were just as powerful as the Ancient Sith Lords. Modern Jedi are f*cking pushovers.
The same Mace who had Sidious begging for his life? The same Yoda who had Sidious running out of his office?
Sure, he used them as pawns, but time and time even in the history of reality has shown that people can use the more powerful aspect as a Pawn. Do not think that because Dooku was used as a pawn that he was less powerful. Dooku may have been more powerful, but he just wasn't as smart as Sidious and didn't have the knowledge of all of his plans. Sidious had everyone fooled. EVERYONE! Dooku was just as fooled as Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Kenobi, Fisto, Koon.... Etc.... Everybody was fooled. He was SMART but that does not determine how powerful he is and it sure as hell does not determine his intelligence for the Battlegrounds.
He also wasn't clever enough to sense a direct slap in the face from a small Rebellion army and a "Kid Jedi". Luke BECAME the most powerful Jedi ever. At that time, he was still at three years of training and still sucked, yet he took down the Empire and Darth Sidious.
"LOLZ SORGO! DOOKUZ GOTS KILLED BY ANAKIN! H4ZXXXXX33RZZ!"
Dooku got killed by Anakin when he wasn't going all out. Sidious was killed by same man when he was older, and had synthetic limbs.
Wow.
Sure, Sidious was a mastermind and he fooled the Jedi, but nothing lasts forever, and sooner or later he was crushed entirely and the Jedi made a spontanious comeback.
Originally posted by Sorgo
I said he was smarter than Dooku in CERTAIN ASPECTS. I obviously didn't mean entirely. Obviously you have made an Assumption. Now, Escape, Assumptions make an ass out of you and me.Yeah, because the ancient Jedi were just as powerful as the Ancient Sith Lords. Modern Jedi are f*cking pushovers.
The same Mace who had Sidious begging for his life? The same Yoda who had Sidious running out of his office?
Sure, he used them as pawns, but time and time even in the history of reality has shown that people can use the more powerful aspect as a Pawn. Do not think that because Dooku was used as a pawn that he was less powerful. Dooku may have been more powerful, but he just wasn't as smart as Sidious and didn't have the knowledge of all of his plans. Sidious had everyone fooled. EVERYONE! Dooku was just as fooled as Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Kenobi, Fisto, Koon.... Etc.... Everybody was fooled. He was SMART but that does not determine how powerful he is and it sure as hell does not determine his intelligence for the Battlegrounds.
He also wasn't clever enough to sense a direct slap in the face from a small Rebellion army and a "Kid Jedi". Luke BECAME the most powerful Jedi ever. At that time, he was still at three years of training and still sucked, yet he took down the Empire and Darth Sidious.
"LOLZ SORGO! DOOKUZ GOTS KILLED BY ANAKIN! H4ZXXXXX33RZZ!"
Dooku got killed by Anakin when he wasn't going all out. Sidious was killed by same man when he was older, and had synthetic limbs.
Wow.
Sure, Sidious was a mastermind and he fooled the Jedi, but nothing lasts forever, and sooner or later he was crushed entirely and the Jedi made a spontanious comeback.
Sorgo, lol, all you have ever made about Dooku being more powerful than Sidious are assumptions. Speculation. Nothing. Again, evidence supports me. At least in the Force, that is. Meanwhile, at least Nai can bring up something good without being blinded by the rare disease known as Dookufanboyitis, which you seem to have contracted during your time here.
Actually. By your statements, Mace is greater than Sidious, and we all know Yoda is greater than Sidious or Dooku. So here, the Jedi are even more powerful. 🙂
Yep. The one in the same. Although, you forget. Palpatine revealed himself to Anakin who revealed the information to Mace. And then the security recordings revealed it to Yoda. Yep. Palpatine was only discovered when he revealed himself by his OWN decision. 🙂
Again. Your earlier statements insinuate Palpatine to be a fool? Indeed, in intellect, Palpatine is undisputed. He's greater to Dooku there, as well as Yoda and Mace. Point being? So even IF he were weaker, he still won in ROTS. Proving that brains are mightier than brawn. As for ROTJ, love is mightier than brains. 🙂
Once more. All villains make fatal errors. Your beloved Dooku made his fair share, I might add... 🙂
And, Luke didn't end the Empire. Ever hear of 'The Remnant' or post-ROTJ organizations? The Empire still lived. The Empire is STILL living, in the Galactic Alliance. Sorry to break your theory. As for Sidious, Anakin did that, fulfilling his destiny. Then, technically, Brand did it later on.
So no, Sorgo. Assuming doesn't make an ass out of you and me. Just you. 🙂
Originally posted by Escape81
If that is the case, Nai, I suppose there is no such thing as legitimate fighting. You claimed that catching someone by surprise is when they do not expect your move. This is true; but this is a natural part of any real fighting. You can't get the advantage when your opponent is expecting your move. If Sidious is a 'dirty' fighter simply by leaping over his desk and wiping out duelists who are inferior to him (save for Mace), then I guess Dooku isn't a fair duelist, nor is Yoda, nor is Mace. There is no such thing as a fair duelist in Star Wars, by your definition.
No. Sorry...
Of course "surprising" someone is part of legitimate fighting but there is a difference between doing something like that within a fight or doing it before the fight really starts.
For example Mace kicked Sidious lightsaber out of his hands. That was surprising Sidious. Sidious tends to "surprise" his opponents before the battle has really started. Would you call me a "fair" fighter if I drop down on you from somewhere and cut you down ? I guess not.
And that was the point. Sidious surprised his opponents before starting a fight and tried to gain an advantage. Is that unfair ? No. Is it illegitimate ? No. Can you still say he beat opponents "fair and square" if he utilized advantages (a lack of space against the four Jedi; the terrain against Yoda) in his favor ? No.
As Sorgo pointed it out before: Dooku didn't do things like that. He went into battles directly and even tried to keep fair conditions. On the beginning of ROTS he could have commanded his droids to attack the Jedi and use force lightning at them at the same time - which would most likely have killed them. In AotC he could have blasted Obi-Wan, Anakin and even Yoda before they were ready to fight. Did he do anything like this ? No.
That's the essential difference between Dooku and Sidious. Sidious is a coward, a manipulater, somebody that will most likely stay away from any fight unless having an advantage (in the ROTS commentary he's compared to Grievous and Grievous is the biggest coward running around) or being forced to fight. Dooku is a fighter and he's trained to fight. He's honourable and this is what did kill him in the end (being betrayed by his master) - Sidious is not and therefore he survived.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
And FYI, if this is indeed true (And not a shakey source or taken out of context, both of which are popular here) then I don't have any faith left in GL. This is clearly unfounded and not reflected in the movies or the literature.
GL stated that Vader was in ROTJ only 80% as powerful as Sidious. He also stated that Luke beat down Vader fair and square. That would show that Luke is >80%. Since after Luke defeated Vader he took a hell of a lot of force lightning from Sidious and was still able to drag a 200+pound man what could have been kilometers, he had to be considerably more than 80% of Sidious. Since Dooku is about equal to Sidious(slightly stronger) and Dooku was more powerful than both Anakin and Obi-wan Luke must be stronger than them. I have stated this mutiple times. but it always overlooked.
I hate it when you go on these modes.
GL stated that Vader was in ROTJ only 80% as powerful as Sidious.
Force potential. Don't mangle the words.
He also stated that Luke beat down Vader fair and square.
Reeks of BS. Where was this specifically?
That would show that Luke is >80%.
No it wouldn't, since it's talking about Force potential, not lightsaber skills or Force mastery. Both of those come with EXPERIENCE, which Luke had not.
Since after Luke defeated Vader he took a hell of a lot of force lightning from Sidious and was still able to drag a 200+pound man what could have been kilometers, he had to be considerably more than 80% of Sidious.
And round forty of Glentract's "Let's Jump to Conclusions!" Hope you brought your jumping pants, folks!
P1: Luke beat Vader. P2: Vader is 80% of Sidious (In force potential, but for the sake of Glentract's argument, it must mean Power Level, since it encompasses saber skills, power, and ass kicking ability apparently). Conclusion: Luke is more than 80 % kickass of Sidious.
Add this with-
P1: Luke dragged Vader's body to a shuttle. P2: Above flawed conclusion. Conclusion: Luke MUST be over 80 % of Sidious' Power Level (tm).
See the loopholes, folks?
Since Dooku is about equal to Sidious(slightly stronger) and Dooku was more powerful than both Anakin and Obi-wan Luke must be stronger than them.
Translation: Luke beat Vader who was 80 % of (Insert arbitrary stat here), and (Glentract believes) Dooku is about the same or even higher than Sidious' power level (tm) and Dooku beats Anakin and obi-Wan in combat (Despite Anakin being 200% Random Stat of Sidious... wait a minute... wouldn't that make Dooku over 200 % of Sidious since he beat Anakin who is 200%? Oops! Logical error!) therefore Luke MUST be stronger than Mace and Dooku by ROTJ.
I have stated this mutiple times. but it always overlooked.
That's because it's bullshit.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
And btw, you lied when you said GL stated Luke was as good as Mace or Dooku by ROTJ. It's what you think is correct by extrapolating incorrectly on his statement.
Wrong. What I said was according to Lucas he is at least 80%. It was you who assumed that I took this from a direct quote.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
Force potential. Don't mangle the words.
When did he ever say force potential? He said 80% as powerful, not that he has 80% of Sidious' potential. GL said that before the injuries, Anakin had the potential to ten times more powerful than Sidious. Anakin obviously didn't lose 90% of his body mass. Looks like you are wrong. Who would have though.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
Reeks of BS. Where was this specifically?
In comentary about the movie he said so.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
No it wouldn't, since it's talking about Force potential, not lightsaber skills or Force mastery. Both of those come with EXPERIENCE, which Luke had not.
It isn't talking about force potential. You are wrong Janus.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
P1: Luke beat Vader. P2: Vader is 80% of Sidious (In force potential, but for the sake of Glentract's argument, it must mean Power Level, since it encompasses saber skills, power, and ass kicking ability apparently). Conclusion: Luke is more than 80 % kickass of Sidious.
Pretty much. He said he is 80% as powerful. That mean 80% overall, not in each catagorey individually. If Luke is more powerful than Vader, and Vader is 80%, Luke is greater than 80%. It's simple really.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
Add this with-P1: Luke dragged Vader's body to a shuttle. P2: Above flawed conclusion. Conclusion: Luke MUST be over 80 % of Sidious' Power Level (tm).
See the loopholes, folks?
And the flaw is what?
Originally posted by Deus Ex
Translation: Luke beat Vader who was 80 % of (Insert arbitrary stat here), and (Glentract believes) Dooku is about the same or even higher than Sidious' power level (tm) and Dooku beats Anakin and obi-Wan in combat (Despite Anakin being 200% Random Stat of Sidious... wait a minute... wouldn't that make Dooku over 200 % of Sidious since he beat Anakin who is 200%? Oops! Logical error!) therefore Luke MUST be stronger than Mace and Dooku by ROTJ.
Lucas said he was 80%. You also have been a propenent of the view that Sidious and Dooku are near equal.
There is a flaw on your part Janus. You assume that Dooku defeat Anakin's most powerful form.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
That's because it's bullshit.
Or perhaps you are out to discredit me because you are angry that Mace is more capable than Dooku.
I'd like to make it clear this is it for tonight. I'm not gonna spar with you all night when you're like this. You just piss me off to no end.
When did he ever say force potential? He said 80% as powerful, not that he has 80% of Sidious' potential. GL said that before the injuries, Anakin had the potential to ten times more powerful than Sidious. Anakin obviously didn't lose 90% of his body mass. Looks like you are wrong. Who would have though.
I thought it was two times. No one ever did tell me where this ten times figure comes from. You'll excuse me if I'm skeptical of information I see floating around here that comes exclusively from you, of course.
Second, powerful apparently means (To me) Force power and potential and (to you) some arbitrary power level which is not feasible because such things cannot be measured (OUtside of DBZ of course). Really, if GL's exact words were powerful, this could mean ANY number of things. It could be temporal power, Force power, arm power, anything. But you assume it means... a power level. A flaw on your part, Glentract.
In comentary about the movie he said so.
Exact words? Again, you'll forgive me for not wanting to just take your word for it, since I have no one else of good reputation validifying your claims.
It isn't talking about force potential. You are wrong Janus.
Assuming GL's words were indeed "80% of Sidious' Power" or something like that, you are equally wrong in assuming it means anything and then basing an entire theory on it that's founded ONLY on your interpretation of a man's single sentence.
Pretty much. He said he is 80% as powerful. That mean 80% overall, not in each catagorey individually. If Luke is more powerful than Vader, and Vader is 80%, Luke is greater than 80%. It's simple really.
No, it's leaping to conclusions. You are assuming that powerful implies a broad spectrum of skills and powers and yet it may very well not. Considering no other evidence supports this, it's hyperbole. Assigning a number to a person and giving no certain context is hyperbole. If I say that Jo Bob is 80 % as powerful as Jimmy and I don't specify it could mean influential power, physical power, possibly even horsepower. Generally, in a setting that isn't a video game, there are no exact numbers for a person's overall performance that is quoted as "x% as powerful" stat.
If you truly intend to PROVE anything you need more than this. If you're offering a THEORY, then admit as much. You bashed Nai for claiming facts in a theory, then you do the same thing. You're a hypocrite.
And the flaw is what?
I can't believe you had to ask. Dragging a man to a shuttle does nto equate with the arbitrart power level you suggest. Chewbacca could drag vader too. Is he over 80 % of Sidious?
Lucas said he was 80%. You also have been a propenent of the view that Sidious and Dooku are near equal.
Not in some random power level, Glentract. Dooku may school Sidious in saber combat, but Sidious may school Dooku in force combat. If Dooku happened to beat Sidious in Force combat, I would not be so ignroant as to claim that Dooku was more than 100% of Sidious overall, as you have done when you claim Luke MUST be stronger than VAder's 80 % just because he won. Obi-Wan DID beat Anakin. And Maul. Was he more than both?
There is a flaw on your part Janus. You assume that Dooku defeat Anakin's most powerful form.
No, I was showing you the flaw in YOUR argument. You are saying Luke is more than 80% of Sidious' power level because he beat Vader. Yet Dooku beat Anakin and Obi-Wan. Is he more than both of them in this random stat? So is Mace better than Yoda because he beat Sidious and Yoda didn't?
Or perhaps you are out to discredit me because you are angry that Mace is more capable than Dooku.
WTF? Why am I mad about Mace being "More capable" than Dooku? It has nothing to do with this thread, and it's unsupported BS at the most.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
WTF? Why am I mad about Mace being "More capable" than Dooku? It has nothing to do with this thread, and it's unsupported BS at the most.
Then why in the other thread did you give mention to this one and go off on me just minutes a short while after the other one.
And like you, I'm not going to continuously spar with you over this.
Sorgo, lol, all you have ever made about Dooku being more powerful than Sidious are assumptions. Speculation. Nothing. Again, evidence supports me. At least in the Force, that is. Meanwhile, at least Nai can bring up something good without being blinded by the rare disease known as Dookufanboyitis, which you seem to have contracted during your time here.
Escape. All I have heard from you is how high Sidious' intellect is, how much he smoked everyone, including Yoda, and how much he could kick Dooku's ass. You have thought you have provided solid proof for your arguements, but it seems you have tripped apon a pure strain of your own direct Hypocrisy, Escape. I like your Avatar of Palpatine. Sounds like symptoms of Sidiousfanboyitis. You can deny it until your head f*cking explodes, but from what shit I have gathered, you have a rather small favor for Sidious.
Actually. By your statements, Mace is greater than Sidious, and we all know Yoda is greater than Sidious or Dooku. So here, the Jedi are even more powerful. 🙂
No one denied their power, of course, but it doesn't make them more powerful, seeing as 90% of them got f*cked over during a grand purge by one sole source from the Dark side. The Jedi are more powerful than who?
Yep. The one in the same. Although, you forget. Palpatine revealed himself to Anakin who revealed the information to Mace. And then the security recordings revealed it to Yoda. Yep. Palpatine was only discovered when he revealed himself by his OWN decision. 🙂
No one argued his discovery, either. I do not care whether he wanted every to know who he was, but I am sure it was not part of his plan to be revealed.
Again. Your earlier statements insinuate Palpatine to be a fool? Indeed, in intellect, Palpatine is undisputed. He's greater to Dooku there, as well as Yoda and Mace. Point being? So even IF he were weaker, he still won in ROTS. Proving that brains are mightier than brawn. As for ROTJ, love is mightier than brains. 🙂
Look at you! Do you honestly deny Sidious fanboyism on your part? You act like Sidious was the God of SW! Sure, he was damn good and he played the strings, but he got it all thrown in his face at the end. He basically got f*cked right over.
He won in ROTS? WHO THE F*CK CARES! THIS IS A VERSUS FORUM! THEY AREN'T GOING TO SIT DOWN AND TALK EACH OTHER TO DEATH! WHEN WE MAKE THESE KIND OF THREADS, THEY DUKE IT RIGHT THE F*CK OUT, So guess what? Brawns take over brains in this situation, and if you imply so, maybe Dooku's brawns would own Sidious brains, correct?
Love? So Sidious can't sense love? Or a plan of betrayal by his own apprentice? Or to get his ass whooped by a handful of rebels and a twenty something year old "KID"?
Alot of you talk of how Dooku's death was his arrogance and Sidious conquered him with intelligence, BUT CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW SIDIOUS DIED? Well, his Arrogance. He thought Vader would not kill him and live by him, he thought his army was capable of toppling a lesser army, and he thought Luke's friends would not succeed. But of course, the intelligent mastermind that you love so much was 100% incorrect.
Once more. All villains make fatal errors. Your beloved Dooku made his fair share, I might add... 🙂
Sweet, but your beloved Palpatine made just as many, IF NOT MORE, so to say.
And, Luke didn't end the Empire. Ever hear of 'The Remnant' or post-ROTJ organizations? The Empire still lived. The Empire is STILL living, in the Galactic Alliance. Sorry to break your theory. As for Sidious, Anakin did that, fulfilling his destiny. Then, technically, Brand did it later on.
The empire's rule was completely shut down along with Sidious' life. Sure, Sidious pulled the strings but death overcame him, and he no longer owns his beloved army.
As for you calling my views assumptions, you have provided zero proof that Sidious can kill Dooku, you have used the Criss Cross analogy several times, you EVEN steered off into irrelevancy at some points, talking of Sidious' intelligence when power was key in our debates.
Don't call what I have theories, when in flawless fact.... That would be all you have as well.
All you do is spit out the fact that you have gathered all this evidence that Sidious would wipe the floor with Dooku in a fight when the purity of the fact is there is NOTHING. ZERO. NATTA. ZIP
so far that you mentioned factioning that Sidious is more powerful than Dooku besides the fact that Sidious is the Master, and Dooku is the apprentice. Yeah yeah, Sidious was a Mastermind, but in these forums, when we pit them together in a fight that uses Lightsabers and the Force, Sidious' army, betrayal and anything else is ELIMINATED. Because the thread isn't called "Sidious with his army, what happened in ROTS and his betrayal against the Jedi VS Dooku and the crappy droids"
NONE of that matters. All that matters is the fact of force and Lightsaber, and you haven't got shit proving that Sidious is stronger except for insufficient timelines and the Criss Crossing Analogies, as I said before.
I expect a reply after you swim out of that pool of your own hypocrisy, Escape.
I 'do' deny that I am a Sidious fanboy. Perhaps if you'd look around a bit more, you'd see I favor no one, and defend only those who need it. If Dooku were being slandered and underestimated, I'd go out of my way to support him as well. I read a little before I became a member of these forums, Sorgo. I've seen the threads around here. I've seen a lot of people, like Darth Somebody and Great Vengeance. Do I want to be like them? No. But still, they have made a few valid points. Am I a Sidious fanboy? No. I'm not.
I chose the avatar simply because of two reasons:
1. No one else used it.
2. Sidious is one of the people really underranked, so I will support the underdog, as long as he requires it.
Originally posted by Escape81
I 'do' deny that I am a Sidious fanboy. Perhaps if you'd look around a bit more, you'd see I favor no one, and defend only those who need it. If Dooku were being slandered and underestimated, I'd go out of my way to support him as well. I read a little before I became a member of these forums, Sorgo. I've seen the threads around here. I've seen a lot of people, like Darth Somebody and Great Vengeance. Do I want to be like them? No. But still, they have made a few valid points. Am I a Sidious fanboy? No. I'm not.I chose the avatar simply because of two reasons:
1. No one else used it.
2. Sidious is one of the people really underranked, so I will support the underdog, as long as he requires it.
Hmm.... If you insist, maybe not so much. It's just that I have experienced Fanboys before and alot of them like to deny it. I admit to being a Dooku fanboy, but I know when to stop and I know where proof is valid of who can defeat Dooku and who Dooku may be able to defeat. I gotta know that stuff! I am his number #1 Fanboy, for crying out loud! 😛
My, my. You do have a rather disheartening temper, Sorgo. Perhaps you understand the slightest amount of frustration. I've seen many of your colorful works of art. Including where you assume Obi-Wan could defeat Mace Windu in combat. This is another example of your immense and uncalled for fanboyism. Simply because they are your favorites, does not mean they are all-powerful or invincible. You also seem to be quite determined to deny 'fact' regarding Dooku and Sidious. So I will respond once more.
a) Books that do not conflict with the movies are considered canon, and thusly legitimate, unless Lucas renounces them. Dark Rendezvous and Labyrinth of Evil are both legitimate articles of writing, and are canon. And both state, and go into extreme detail, of Dooku's reverence of his master's power, and of his secret 'fear' of Sidious. One does not think that way about one's inferior? And Sidious's attitude towards Dooku? It is the same as ever. Respectful, but commanding. Sidious even hints, in Dark Rendezvous, that he will have no qualms about destroying Dooku if Dooku takes enough 'initiative'.
Even Nai and Deus (!) both understand Dooku feared Sidious, and not the other way around. We do not, however, know precisely what Dooku feared. But we can single out:
a) Fear of criminal charges. Dooku already was identified as the head of an illegal separatist movement, and was responsible for the deaths of countless beings (on Sidious's orders, ironically), so he was already a wanted man.
b) Fear of political slander. Dooku was a political revolutionary on one side, and a sham on the other. He was respected and ridiculed on both either front. And he went into the Separatist movement knowing that this would bring a lot of slander and hatred his way.
So, I'm assuming Dooku feared Sidious's control of the Dark Side, or for his own life. If need be, I will type the exact word-for-word remarks on these forums to 'prove' to you that Dooku did fear Sidious, whereas nothing is indicated that Sidious fears him.
So, the question is: Why would one fear one's inferior?
b) As for the Jedi. The Jedi were hidiously outnumbered by enormously talented clone troopers, and were whittled away by three long years of war. There was a minimal amount of them left as it is, and the rest were simply annihilated by superior numbers and Imperial (Republic) technology. Their destruction is credited more to Sidious's overall scheme than Order 66. The war had caused numerous casualties on the Jedi's part, and Order 66 picked off what's left. Sidious nor Dooku could have done it without the clones. So, no. They were destroyed by the brilliant schemes of one Dark Side source.
c) Palpatine openly discussed the Dark Side, and offered to educate Anakin in its philosophy. Knowing that Anakin was already conflicted and confused, he wouldn't have revealed himself to Anakin without knowing Anakin would tell it to the Jedi. Anakin himself states that he is going to tell the council, and Palpatine lets him leave, without threat or fear. He intended to reveal himself.
d) All villains effectively get 'f*cked* over', in the very end. Or didn't you know that 'good always wins' in popular literature? The same occured to Dooku, Maul, Sidious, Vong, Empire, Thrawn, Grievous, and all of the other Star Wars villains.
e) No. The Empire existed without Palpatine. Thrawn took over, and all thought Palpatine was dead. Even after DE Sidious was slain, the Empire still continued. The Stormtroopers and the Imperial Starfleet were still in tact. Luke didn't destroy them. They still remain living, in the Galactic Alliance.
f) Hypocrisy? No. I defend the characters around here who are grossly underestimated and their opponents grossly overestimated. As it were, if Dooku didn't have you here as his savior and knight, I'd probably defend him as well. But you do that all on your own.
Originally posted by Sorgo
Hmm.... If you insist, maybe not so much. It's just that I have experienced Fanboys before and alot of them like to deny it. I admit to being a Dooku fanboy, but I know when to stop and I know where proof is valid of who can defeat Dooku and who Dooku may be able to defeat. I gotta know that stuff! I am his number #1 Fanboy, for crying out loud! 😛
Fanboyism isn't something you should be proud of, my friend. It tends to blind one from the truth. Great Vengeance has shown his colors, as he believes Ragnos couldn't defeat Sidious. I told him, flat-out, Ragnos would crush him. I do not hesitate for a moment to say when and where and by whom Sidious would be defeated.
It is true, Sorgo. You seem hesitant... leary... and flat-out unwilling to accept anything that says Dooku may not be superior to Sidious. It has been noted to me by many people, through messages. You can guess whom, but their identities will remain anonymous.
But I want to let you know. While you are knowledgeable on Dooku and are an utterly ruthless and persistant on a level beyond any debator I have seen here, you lack one thing on the Dooku subject.
An open mind.