Mormons

Originally posted by overlord
I don't like the way religion has turned out like in America with all those cults and filtering out information.
As a christian myself, I have noticed how most of you are extremists and still stuck in the past with christianity.

My question: Is this also the case with mormons?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by stuck in the past....

I mean if your a christian you must be to some degree becuase we believe in a Christ that came here in the past, and tought us how to live at any time.

Yes we are stuck in the past in the way that we belive in the values that are bing antiquadated in this world. (if you call those extreamest)

At the same time no we are not because we verry much look to the future in ways of improving life quality, and advancing our knowladge to its fullest (but not letting it get in the way of following the commandments). And we look to the future and unknown day that christ will set all right in the second comming.

maybe be more sapcific and i can answer better....

OH and i don't know what you mean about cults (a cult is defined as a group of people, by the way, not a group of mindless blindly trapped sheep) spewing information, becuase with the correct deffiniton there are too many cults to count (companies, political groups, etc.) telling us to do things, and there always have been.

And I think if there is any "cult" that is trying to controll everyone it is the people involved in the liberal way of thinking, in schools telling kids that white people are evil, in collages telling kids how to think not just to think, and countless other things.

Religion is not threatening america, it is the poeple who want to take away that freedom that are.

Don't try to tell me it isn't happening either, becuase I've seen it in my own school, teachers trying to tell me I have no right to express in any way my religion during school. If i can never express it for fear of offending, i really can't have it at all can I? 😠

Heh, I'm back - I've been gone forever... Not literally, but I haven't been on in ages and I feel like I've missed out on so much of this conversation... Now I have to go catch up! Yay!

I've read your last post though and I completely agree! Woot woot!

kella I know there are good people in the LDS chruch. There are nice people everywere, that dosent mean there beliefs are correct. Anyway, I havent seen one LDS counter my arguments. This this mean I am right? I am afraid so.

yay!!!!!!! BA's back!!! whoot whoot! I bet that they moved the thread didn't help either. That threw me off for a while.
Glad you like my kick-butt post. 😄 Can't wait to see yours again.

Son_of_man, Thankyou for admiting we're not devils. I'm sure your nice too, when you want to be.

But Hullo!!!!!

did you read my post!?

I countered every argument you made!!!!! 😛 😄

That is at least standing up for my belifes, and don't tell me it's not.

Originally posted by Son of Man
Kella, I rather be a "butt-head" (Mormons seem to talk like sinners) than belive in false doctrines. (as do you)

svnthdysthsbbth, yes they are an occult. svnthdysthsbbth, heres why.

Mormon Doctrines
There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443); God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321); After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354); God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.)
The Bible says there is only one God (Is. 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5). God is a trinity of persons, not three gods. God is eternally God (Psalm 90:2), therefore, He was never a man. God knows of no other gods (Is. 44:8). You cannot become a god (Is. 43:10). Mormonism is wrong.

Mormonism
New Age Movement
Oneness Pentecostal
Open Theism
Seventh Day Adventism
Shepherd's Chapel
Jehovah's Witnesses

Are all cults.Later.

🙂 🙂 🙂

again you accuse without knowing what you are accusing, when will people learn to look up facts before they make an accusation, the definition of occult is as follows

oc·cult (-klt, klt)
adj.

Hidden; concealed.
Detectable only by microscopic examination or chemical analysis.
Not accompanied by readily detectable signs or symptoms.

hmm, nothing you said is anything like any of these definitions, you have the right to your beliefs, and the mormons have a right to theirs, but you do not have the right, and neither do the mormons, to tell other people that their beliefs are wrong, i just ask, that before you go and make accusations you look up the definiton of the "name" you are calling, somebody, some group, or anything for that matter, you are correct in certain things you say, but the mormons are as well, there is only one God, and the Mormons believe that, what confuses most people, is the fact that Mormons believe that they can become Gods, what this means, and most people don't get, they do not become Gods as most people think, most people think that they become Gods over us, what it actually means, is they were so Righteous on earth that they earned the right to become a God over their own world,

please all i ask, is before you go name calling that you look up the facts of what you are doing,

Kella, there is no need to be rude when you are talking to people, who dont believe what you believe, it only makes them more sure that what they said is correct, i dont mean to be rude, but just teach what the truth you believe is, and tell them why, dont just say your wrong because i believe so, tell them what, and why you believe it, and tell them how you came to know it oh and btw, i went to lds.org, and typed in that phrase for you, and the scripture is
Alma 47: 6
6 And they had appointed a man to be a king and a leader over them, being fixed in their minds with a determined resolution that they would anot• be subjected to go against the Nephites.

hope this helps later
RAB

Regulus A Black, this is the defintion of a cult.

"1.A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
2.The followers of such a religion or sect.
3.A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4.A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

5.Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest".
(go to dictionary.com, it will give you this defintion.)

dorkerina~ I am sorry, I read some of your osts and you didnt really "counter" them that great. So, let us debate in a friendly matter.

Regulus A Black, you say Mormons belive in one God? Well, thats not what your chruch teachs.According to 'Articles of Faith' there are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443)
All of this clearly contradics The Bible. I can qoute verses if wished.

(sorry this is a little off topic)Brunette Angel, you have a MySpace? So do I. Can I add you?Later.

Originally posted by Son of Man
Regulus A Black, this is the defintion of a cult.

"1.A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
2.The followers of such a religion or sect.
3.A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4.A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

5.Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest".
(go to dictionary.com, it will give you this defintion.)

dorkerina~ I am sorry, I read some of your osts and you didnt really "counter" them that great. So, let us debate in a friendly matter.

Regulus A Black, you say Mormons belive in one God? Well, thats not what your chruch teachs.According to 'Articles of Faith' there are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443)
All of this clearly contradics The Bible. I can qoute verses if wished.

okay here we go, yes that is the definition of a Cult, and if you look at my previous posts, i have put it on their twice i believe, therefore by that definition all religions are Cults, so that really doesnt work,

Mormons do believe in one God, the 'Articles of Faith' that are taught by the Mormon church do not say there are many Gods, here they are
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

3. We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

they say nothing about believing in more then one God and you know what just to get your mind thinking, im going to ask you a questions, that nobody ever thinks about asking or thinks about the answer to,

Where did God come from?

Can you answer it? Probably not, not many people can, the only ones i have ever met that can are the Mormons,

No let me ask another question

If we need a mother on earth, why wouldnt we need a mother in heaven?

Can you answer it? Again Probably not, not many people can, the only ones i have ever met that can are again the Mormons.

😄

Well put RAB.

I remember when I was in Primary and I wanted to learn all the Articles of Faith. I was so excited when I did it! The one I remember most is the 13th though... Strange.

I agree, very well put RAB

Originally posted by Son of Man
(sorry this is a little off topic)Brunette Angel, you have a MySpace? So do I. Can I add you?Later.

Sure you can! I love new friends!

RAB, notice it says, "....or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader."
(LDS have modern day phophets, like Gordan B. Hincley.) Sorry my friend but thats you. You are a "religoues sect" you are a minority. You are not like the Cathloics, Protestans, and Eatern Orthodox. ( They are all not cults because they bekive in one God, and belive Jesus was not created.)

Mormons belive in one God? Well. The Book of Abram disagrees."And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)
So does Mormon Doctrine "There are many gods", (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
So does James Talmage, "There is a mother god", (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.)
So does Mormon Doctrines aganin, "God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children", (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.)

So, to your two questions, 1.Who created God. " I Am the Alpha and Omega." God always existed.

2.Why not need a mother in heaven? Well I will answear that with a question. If there are TV's on earth why not in heaven? They both have the same answear: They are not needed.

Nice talking, Later.

You believe we are false.

So we follow the prophet? Catholics follow the Pope.
I dont' see how we differ from Catholics in that discription .

We do not live in closed comunities as you suggest, we live in normal communities all over the world. In fact there are more member of the curch inside of the US than in.
We don't fit this discription.

And we're not exactly a sect, we're the 7th fastest growing religion in the US. Other Christians aren't in the majority in the world as a whole either by the way.

And by calling us a cult because you think we're wrong are you going to call budists cult members? because your not being fair if you don't.

You just try to fit us to this description to make us look bad, please don't.

Oh, and we belive that more beings than just God created the universe, but they where all under his instruction.

And I don't know why your so obsessed about us contradicting the bible, it contradicts itself. In fact it does from one page to the other. Here:

Exodus 33:11;And the LORD spake unto mosesface to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

exodus 33:20; And he said, thou cans't not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Something is obviously missing. This is why we only belive in the bibel as far as it is translated correctly. But we still know it holds precious words from God.

likewise, it's nice talking!😄

If all Mormons are Christians,then all Christians are Mormon.
You claim to be Christian yet deny the essentials of Christianity; namely, that there is one God, that forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, that there is a trinity, that Jesus is God, etc.
Mormonism teaches that there are many many gods but that Mormons should serve and worship only one of them, the one of this world. It teaches that forgiveness of sins is not by grace alone. It denies the Trinity doctrine which says there is one God in three persons and instead says that there are three separate gods. It does not proclaim that Jesus is God, but that Jesus is "a" god.... etc. Additionally, Mormons have secret temple rituals, even though the rituals have been done away with with the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem.
Now, you guys deny basic Christian doctrines, yet you want to be called Christian because they say they believe in the same Jesus of the Bible, among other things. But when you guys speak of Jesus, you guys mean that Jesus is the brother of Satan, and you and I. Mormons teach that we have all been born from god and his goddess wife who both have physical bodies of flesh and bones.
Nnone of this is in the Bible and none of this is believed by Christians. But that has not stopped you from wanting to be called Christian.
So, since Mormons deny basic Christian doctrine and claim to be Christian, then I can deny basic Mormon doctrine and be a Mormon. For example, I deny the following Mormon doctrines.
I deny that there are many many gods (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 163).
I deny that the trinity is three separate gods (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith page 370).
I deny that god is a man from another planet (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3).
I deny that there is a goddess mother (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 443).
I deny that god is married to his goddess wife (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.).
(countioued)

Originally posted by Son of Man
RAB, notice it says, "....or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader."
(LDS have modern day phophets, like Gordan B. Hincley.) Sorry my friend but thats you. You are a "religoues sect" you are a minority. You are not like the Cathloics, Protestans, and Eatern Orthodox. ( They are all not cults because they bekive in one God, and belive Jesus was not created.)

Mormons belive in one God? Well. The Book of Abram disagrees."And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)
So does Mormon Doctrine "There are many gods", (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
So does James Talmage, "There is a mother god", (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.)
So does Mormon Doctrines aganin, "God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children", (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.)

So, to your two questions, 1.Who created God. " I Am the Alpha and Omega." God always existed.

2.Why not need a mother in heaven? Well I will answear that with a question. If there are TV's on earth why not in heaven? They both have the same answear: They are not needed.

Nice talking, Later.

well lets see here

but the thing is we need a mother on earth, we do not need a tv on earth, or at least i don't. so again let me ask

If we need a mother on earth, why dont we need a mother in heaven?

i dont think you can come up with a sastisfactory answer for that,

and

Where did God come from, although your answer may be true, you are interpreting what it means incorrectly, It means that God is the Beginning and the End of Us, he created us, and we will be with him again, or in other words he is our Beginning and our End. So let me ask

Where did God come from?

I deny that god and his goddess wife have bodies of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22; Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
I deny that we were all born in the pre-existence (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, page 218; Articles of Faith, page 174).
I deny that Satan is my spirit brother (Mormon Doctrine, page 163).
I deny that I need a temple (Articles of Faith, page 138).
I deny that I have the potential of becoming a god (Articles of Faith, page 424).
I deny that the book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, 4:461).
I deny that good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, pages 81, 92).
I deny that my own blood must atone for any of my sins ((Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, page 247; see also, Vol. 4, pp. 53-54, 219-220).
Therefore, since the you guys deny basic Christian doctrines and call them selves Christian, is it okay for me to deny basic Mormon doctrines and call myself a Mormon?
Anyway, you whole, "The Bible contradics itself thing" dosent cut it.The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Fadther (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.
If God is a Trinity, then John 1:18 is not a problem either because in John chapter one, John writes about the Word (Jesus) and God (the Father). In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh. In verse 18 it says no one has seen God. Since Jesus is the Word, God then, refers to the Father. This is typically how John writes of God: as a reference to the Father. We see this verified in Jesus own words in John 6:46 where He said that no one has ever seen the Father. Therefore, Almighty God was seen, but not the Father. It was Jesus before His incaarnation. There is more than one person in the Godhead and the doctrine of the Trinity must be true.Pure logic, Nice talkin. Later.

Originally posted by Son of Man
If all Mormons are Christians,then all Christians are Mormon.

That's like saying All Germans are Nazis. It just can't be done.

RAB your logic is totally off.
Let me explain. Your interpataion of "Alpha and Omega" is off. It is just an interpation(A way off interpation at that. Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, this should be thought of as the beginning and the end of history, He is the author of history. The seven seals (Rev 5) concern the unfolding of God's plan in history. Revelation shows us that God is sovereign over human history, that God is both the beginning and the end is particularly appropriate to this book. This designation of Alpha and Omega is repeated in 21:6, 22:13. ).)The point God is makeing is clear., there are many verses that show God was never created, such as this one in paticular....
God is ‘the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity’ (Isaiah 57:15).
He is in eternity, He is never created.
Oh yes here is a good thing to note."One to be born is everlasting". Micah 5:2 “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” The “goings forth” of the Messiah is “from everlasting.” The Messiah is ascribed an incommunicable attribute of God – eternality or the nature of that which is everlasting. Jesus is never created. God is never created.
Anyway, lets not get side tracked.
Even if, God dosent need to be created. Let me pin -point.
1.The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have had a beginning.
2.It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause.
3.The universe therefore requires a cause, just as Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:20 teach.
God, as creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore He has no beginning in time, He has always existed, so doesn’t need a cause.
O, almost forgot,you wont have a mother in heaven. Why isnt there oxygen in heaven? Or water? Or food? You need all that stuff to live. The verdict is this: They are all eartly things, which have, "...passed away." Later.

Barker, you totally took those words out of context.(pleas take the time to read the post. I was makeing a point useing THERE logic. I certainly dont belive Christians are Mormons.)
Pleas dont insult me, I did not insult you. I dont think you should be on these threads if all you are gonna do is say nothing and just insult people. I hope that helps you understand what I ment. Later.

Originally posted by Son of Man

O, almost forgot,you wont have a mother in heaven. Why isnt there oxygen in heaven? Or water? Or food? You need all that stuff to live. The verdict is this: They are all eartly things, which have, "...passed away." Later.

If we need a mother on earth to be created, why would we not need a mother in heaven to be created?

And you are telling us that there can't be a mother in heaven why? Just because the Bible never says she is there, i have explained this in an earlier post, She is not mentioned for her protection,

Lets say, you are a King over a Land far away, you have selected a leader to rule in your absence, you speak only to him, for responsibilities of your land, but you speak to anybody you rule over that asks you, and you only tell them what they need to know, now lets say there are people in this land far away that hate you, and are going to want to convince others to hate you, and are going to try to insult you with words, well thats just fine, but im not done, lets say you have a wife, more beatuiful then the earth itself, you love her more then anybody has ever loved before, you love her more then you love yourself, or life for that matter, you would do anything to protect her, so what do you do, you dont tell these people about your wife for her protection, so they do not insult her.

i hope this explains to you why Mormons believe that there is a Heavenly Mother.

and who says there isnt oxygen, or water or food in heaven?

John 6: 31
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat

Originally posted by Son of Man
There is more than one person in the Godhead and the doctrine of the Trinity must be true.

Yes there is more then one person in the Godhead, the Mormons are one of few that believe in that. Most churches believe they are all one person. The Mormon church and others not many though are the only religions to believe that they are three sepearte beings, just our belief in the Godhead, turns most people away.

You use information, that is written by excommunicated members of the church, they misquotes things because they get angry with the church, because they were not following the churchs doctrines, and were removed from the records of the church, until such a time that they have repented and are ready to recommit to the commitments they had once made with God. I want you to use information that is written by the Prophets themselves, find the number of the Local Mormon Missionaries, and tell them you want some Mormon Literature.