Originally posted by Son of Man
Mormonism teaches that there are many many gods but that Mormons should serve and worship only one of them, the one of this world.
Where in the Hell are you getting this Crap?
We belive that there is One God. Jesus is the son of God, if that's your Argument.
Also, why are you in here? You obviously don't agree with our Religion. Leave.
Hey son of man, person, dude, guy... or whatever. You say God was not created, because He is everlasting. For something to be everlasting, first it must be created, or it never existed. Everlasting is to never diminish. I do not care to use a dictionary right now, but oh well. First of all, the way you say that God is everlasting, making Him never created, then that would contradict the teachings of the bible, and of man, and of God. For since God was not created, but is everlasting, then we being created are not everlasting. So, before you use this word "everlasting" make sure you fully understand it. Everlasting does not mean that you are without creation. If I am not mistaken, it means to never deminish, or to be destroyed. We humans will become everlasting, and be blessed with immortality, but we were created in the begining. The begining being that from when God, and Christ created time, and us.
And as far as I know people came up with the word christian to distinguish those who believe in Christ from those who did not. I may be mistaken, but oh well... Anyways, most people only use the world believe, but rarely use the word "know" and i find this to be the fault of a lot of people. I for one know the truth. Can you honestly look deep inside your soul, not your mortal mind or heart, and say you know? How about this, I challenge all those who are not members with mine own faith, that if you do not "know" then to pick up a Book of Mormon from somewhere and read it. Read it with intent to learn, with faith that you will have knowledge of the truth. And when you are asked to pray about it at the end of Moroni, the last book in there. To pray with full intent of your heart, and to not lack faith that you will learn. Then, shall you learn the truth! Now before you say I do not know, I ask have you done this? I am sure you will lie to me, and say yes. You're lacking something, either the reading, the pondering, or the faith in God. Before you go and say I am wrong, that I do not know the truth, take my challenge. And if one of you attempts at me with this, I will only feel sorrow for you, for you truly are blind by the abominations of the world. I know, because God hath made it known unto me. It is more than a feeling, it is more than a vision, it being touched by His own hand. Hearing His own voice, that hath made it known unto me, that all the things within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, that The Book of Mormon is true, and that The Bible is true. I am not here to attack, I am here to try and find out why people are so wicked, and think they are not. Know, do not think. Start with believing, then have faith, and it shall be made known unto you.
W.R. Harris
Honestly, I dont understand you analogy. (sorry, I just dont. I am NOT doing this t ignore you.)
Secondly, the bread that came from "heaven" is the sky. Gensis 1:1 says, "heaven (this is a translation from the hebrew word for sky/skys.)
Just like John 1:1, says he looked up to heaven. (which means to
paraphase, "he looked up to the sky."
The defintion of heaven is, "The sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament. Often used in the plural."(heavens)
And about the whole, " information, that is written by excommunicated members of the church, they misquotes things because they get angry with the church, because they were not following the churchs doctrines......"
Show me were I am wrong, name some names. I have qouted your founder, (JS) your Phophets/apostles ( Gordon B. Hinckley, James Talmage etc.) I qoted Articles of Faith, and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
Let get my point across I dont think you guys are hereing me correctly.
I don't deny that the Mormons are good people and that they do good things and try to honor God. It's you guys moral behavior I have a problem with, it is your view of God and salvation that is wrong. Mormonism misrepresents Christianity, the Cross, Salvation by Grace, the Deity of Christ, the Atonement, and more. It is a vast misrepresentation of Christianity.
Oh, and lastly, we dont belive in the Holy Trinity the same way.Mormons belive The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35); . Christians belive they are One God, but three distinct persons. ( God The Father, God The Son, and God the Holy Spirit)Nice talking to you.Later. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Originally posted by Son of Man
Honestly, I dont understand you analogy. (sorry, I just dont. I am NOT doing this t ignore you.)Secondly, the bread that came from "heaven" is the sky. Gensis 1:1 says, "heaven (this is a translation from the hebrew word for sky/skys.)
Just like John 1:1, says he looked up to heaven. (which means to
paraphase, "he looked up to the sky."The defintion of heaven is, "The sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament. Often used in the plural."(heavens)
And about the whole, " information, that is written by excommunicated members of the church, they misquotes things because they get angry with the church, because they were not following the churchs doctrines......"
Show me were I am wrong, name some names. I have qouted your founder, (JS) your Phophets/apostles ( Gordon B. Hinckley, James Talmage etc.) I qoted Articles of Faith, and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
Let get my point across I dont think you guys are hereing me correctly.
I don't deny that the Mormons are good people and that they do good things and try to honor God. It's you guys moral behavior I have a problem with, it is your view of God and salvation that is wrong. Mormonism misrepresents Christianity, the Cross, Salvation by Grace, the Deity of Christ, the Atonement, and more. It is a vast misrepresentation of Christianity.
Oh, and lastly, we dont belive in the Holy Trinity the same way.Mormons belive The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35); . Christians belive they are One God, but three distinct persons. ( God The Father, God The Son, and God the Holy Spirit)Nice talking to you.Later. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Possibly your most foolish post yet. Obviously you take great pleasure in attempting to misrepresent Christianity. Why don't you show your true colors son..come on don't be afraid. I'm certain there's an ounce of intelligence in there somewhere.
Originally posted by Son of Man
If all Mormons are Christians,then all Christians are Mormon.
You claim to be Christian yet deny the essentials of Christianity; namely, that there is one God, that forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, that there is a trinity, that Jesus is God, etc.
Mormonism teaches that there are many many gods but that Mormons should serve and worship only one of them, the one of this world. It teaches that forgiveness of sins is not by grace alone. It denies the Trinity doctrine which says there is one God in three persons and instead says that there are three separate gods. It does not proclaim that Jesus is God, but that Jesus is "a" god.... etc. Additionally, Mormons have secret temple rituals, even though the rituals have been done away with with the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem.
Now, you guys deny basic Christian doctrines, yet you want to be called Christian because they say they believe in the same Jesus of the Bible, among other things. But when you guys speak of Jesus, you guys mean that Jesus is the brother of Satan, and you and I. Mormons teach that we have all been born from god and his goddess wife who both have physical bodies of flesh and bones.
Nnone of this is in the Bible and none of this is believed by Christians. But that has not stopped you from wanting to be called Christian.
So, since Mormons deny basic Christian doctrine and claim to be Christian, then I can deny basic Mormon doctrine and be a Mormon. For example, I deny the following Mormon doctrines.
I deny that there are many many gods (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 163).
I deny that the trinity is three separate gods (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith page 370).
I deny that god is a man from another planet (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3).
I deny that there is a goddess mother (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 443).
I deny that god is married to his goddess wife (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.).
(countioued)
It's good to know you've been listening. Thats basically what we believe, allbeit in harsh words, but yeah.
Now, I don't know whats so wrong with believing
1. There is a bigger specturm of worlds, and eternities than we know, but what we understand is that we have one God, one father to worship.
2. We have to believe in Christ and his atonement (or grace)to be saved (it is essential that he died for us), but we must also follow christ, and keep his commmandments, generally becoming better people to gain certain glories in the next life. (or else why would he have taught people how to live?)
here James 2:17-18;
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and i have works: Shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
3. Again, there are other glorified, eternal beings (like christ) But God is our only creator, and the only one we worship. (the holly ghost is a spirit servent of god, sent to birng comfort , guidence, and testimony to us in Christs absence). In other words the "trinity" is made of two glorified eternal beings (one of which we worship as God), and one spirit. The difference between Christ and God and the Holly Ghost is The holly Ghost has no imortal body.
4. Jesus is a "God" in that he is an imortal, being to whom God granted all preisthood power "in heaven and on earth". He became imortal after the resurection.
5. Incorrect. We do not practice the rituals of the Jews in our temples, those WERE done away with when Christ died. We make revealed and sacred (not secret) covenants with God while we aer there. Such as eternal Marriage, and baptism in the name of (basically for) those who have gone on before (so they may have a chance, if they want, to recive the blessings we do after death).
6. That satan is christs brother. We are all the eternal spirit children of God. Therefore Santan is also our fallen brother.
7. That we are part of a family in the eternities, where we have a spirit Father and Mother who love us very much. Before we came here, they were perfect (we where not) and where reserected, eternal beings. They sent us here so that we could become like them, becuase they wanted us to share their happiness. "For behold, this is his work and his glory, to bring to pass the imortality and eternal life of man"
Lastly, I want to clairify the "no one has seen God" thing. You are probbaly correct in that no one in the old testimate saw God. We believe that because Christ and God are one in purpose, it does not matter who is talking, he is speaking the will of both. Therefore Jesus is the Jehova (or sometimes called God) of the old testament, and the savior of the new.
But stephen in Acts 7;55-56;
(But he, being full of the Holy ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.
And said, Behol, I see the Heavens opened, and the son of man standing on the right hand of god.)
Obviously saw God, this is another scripture that might suggest to you it is possible that God and Christ are not the same person.
Ramses, nice post, it was beautiful. Welcome to team Mormom. 😄
barker, please don't be mean to Son_of_man, this is just a friendly debate. (or we're trying to keep it that way *is ashamed of self for being mean also*)
Again, nice to kown your listening.
Barker.I can post on any thread I want. I belive this tread is for ALL. Oh, and why am I here? I am here to show Mormons there (dont get mad at me for saying this.) error. Where am I getting this info from?
Mormon Doctrine,:There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443); God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321); After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354); God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.) It seems I know Mormonism than you Barker. 🙂
Ramses, I pointed out a verse that talked about eternaity, and many other things.Not just eterneity. God says "He is the first and the Last."
Nowhere, I mean Nowhere in The Bible does it even seem to indicate that God was created.Later.
Come on...
He just wants to understand something that he isn't ready to understand. When he is ready and sincere to hear our answers...he'll listen to what he's being told.
I'm not trying to offend you Son of Man. It's just...you don't have to convert to Mormonism. You just have to listen. If you want to know...honestly...listen to what some of us are saying...we're actually part of the LDS church. We know a few things too about the LDS religion. It's not brainwashing and it's not that "it's all we have ever known so of course we're gonna say it's right"...blah blah...you get it.
I told you before that I have investigated other religions. I have heard what they are willing to share. I am curious to know what you believe...and not against what we believe, but what do you...just you believe?
All I ask of you Son of Man...is to open your mind and listen. Take into account what we, as members of the church know about our church. Listen to what we have to say about it. Ramses made an excellent challenge for you. Reading the Book of Mormon will not make you LDS automatically. Talking to missionaries will not taint you with whatever Mormon psychosis you believe we are infected with.
Sorry...let me rephrase that. Start from the beginning of the LDS church. Read the Book of Mormon from first Nephi to Moroni. Even if you leave out the gospel messages, the book is just awesome. It has some amazing stories in it.
Read it...and pray. I know you already do pray. I'm sure you pray for us to be saved...just as I will pray for you to also be saved. Though, I am certain that Jesus has already died for you as well...so...perhaps we should just pray for each other to...make it home and be forgiven for our weaknesses and our flaws.
If you are sincere to know why we believe what we believe...talk to the missionaries. Tell them from the start what you want out of the conversation. If you don't want to be bothered again or go to church...let them know that. Just tell them that you want information. That you want answers....you're curious why we believe what we believe.
You are, aren't you? You're curious why we believe it? You aren't just curious of what we believe...but why as well right?
Kella
whobdamandog, I dont belive I insulted you. Please dont insult me. You dont hve to agree with me, but dont try to bash me. Thank you.
Jesus and Satan are not bros. In Acts 7;55-56, Stephen called God the Father God. That dosent mean Jesus is not. Heb. 1:8 God The Father called Jesus God. The fathe, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are all members of the Godhead.
Lastly, Jesus is not "a" god, but as Thomas calls Him, "My Lord and My God." (Jesus is not "a" god.) Oh, I dont belive in a Spirit goddes mother. Thats called polytheism. Later.
You whant to know what I belive? Here is what I belive.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.
Amen.
,
(OH when I say catholic chruch I mean the Christian Church as a whole.)
I as a child was a Mormon. (My dad still this day is. My mom only was because my dad was.) I left Mormoism when I was still young, ( when my mother and father divorced) I was about 4, or 5. Ever since then I have benn raised Protestant( I guess I identify with Calvinist). Ever Since I have been interested in defending the Christian Chruch for everything that opposes it. (I am a apologists)
Such as all cults, evoultion, secular humaism , etc.
I have studied Mormoism a GREAT deal. I have been doing it no joke since I was like ten. So, trust me I talked/debated with Mormon missioaries/Bishops/followers.
Well, thats my story. Later.
Originally posted by Son of Man
Jesus and Satan are not bros. In Acts 7;55-56, Stephen called God the Father God. That dosent mean Jesus is not. Heb. 1:8 God The Father called Jesus God. The fathe, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are all members of the Godhead.
Lastly, Jesus is not "a" god, but as Thomas calls Him, "My Lord and My God." (Jesus is not "a" god.) Oh, I dont belive in a Spirit goddes mother. Thats called polytheism. Later.
Why do you believe that Lucifer isn't also a child of God? Hence...a brother to Jesus and to you and I also?
It does not mean we worship him. It does not mean we hold him in any esteem. He fell from the grace and glory of heaven a very long time ago. He made his choice. Remember the choice thing I mentioned to you earlier?
We, every one of us on this Earth are spirit children of our Heavenly parents. We were born to them in the pre-existance with the chance to become Gods and Goddesses. There are rules that must be followed and a certain standing maintained to become such a being, but it will be possible.
Being children of a God...would that not in fact make us of royal birth and hence able to become Gods and Goddesses as well with our own worlds and children? Do you believe that when we die it's over?
This world is kind of like...school. We come here to learn, to be tested, and to be made strong and worthy to accept the glories that God will choose to bestow upon us. When we leave this world...we will take all of our knowledge from this life with us and the work will continue in the next life...the eternal life. God's work...as He is everlasting...will also be everlasting. And we, as His children will also have work that will be everlasting. My personal hope is that I get to work with the animals there. Tending to them and such. It's what I am trying to do here on Earth. It's why I am in school.
Please...I want to know what you believe will happen after this life Son of Man? Before you attack with anymore Mormon quotes...tell me what you believe.
Originally posted by Son of Man
You whant to know what I belive? Here is what I belive.I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell.The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.Amen.
,
(OH when I say catholic chruch I mean the Christian Church as a whole.)I as a child was a Mormon. (My dad still this day is. My mom only was because my dad was.) I left Mormoism when I was still young, ( when my mother and father divorced) I was about 4, or 5. Ever since then I have benn raised Protestant( I guess I identify with Calvinist). Ever Since I have been interested in defending the Christian Chruch for everything that opposes it. (I am a apologists)
Such as all cults, evoultion, secular humaism , etc.
I have studied Mormoism a GREAT deal. I have been doing it no joke since I was like ten. So, trust me I talked/debated with Mormon missioaries/Bishops/followers.Well, thats my story. Later.
Do you believe that you are a child of God?
you know what, i dont think im going to do this any more, Son of Man is just to stubborn to listen to actual truth coming from actual members of the LDS church, yes you did quote prophets from our church, but are you actually reading the books to get that information?
you say you have been studing Mormonism since you were ten? well, i have a question, how often have you gone to a mormon church, how often have you read REAL mormon literature, not all the ANTI-mormon literature that is out there, the excommunacted members that write those, are angry with the church and then misquote things the prophets have said, then people like you believe they are true because the person says i used to be Mormon, you know what im issuing the same challenge Ramses did, read the Book of Mormon PRAYFULLY, read the books that the church authorizes as church doctrine, you know the books with the facts, i admit you have some things correct, but you just dont understand why, PRAY about it, STUDY it, PONDER, SEARCH, do everything you can with the real information, not the anti, then decide, and you have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to say that Mormonism is wrong, you only say it is wrong because that is how you were raised, you hate the church because your parents were members and got a divorce, i know how it feels, so are mine, but when i fell away, did i start bashing the church, and reading anti mormon literature? NO i read the churchs doctrine wanting to know the truth and it was reaveled to me, God assured me that it was true.
Personally i dont care what you think. you are entitled to think what you want, as am i and everybody else in the world, it is part of the Agency that God gave us,
I know what i believe is true, i know that God did appear to Joseph Smith, i know that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, i know that all the prophets from his time down are true latter day prophets of God, I know that God loves us, I know that Christ is my savior and my redeemer, I am glad that i have this Knowledge, I know that Christ was sent by the Father to come to earth to suffer for my sins, and then die and be resurrected so i one day could follow the example he set for me. I know that Christ is literally my spirit Brother. I know that God is literally my Heavenly Father, i know that he has a wife, and i know she loves me just as much as he does. I know that my Father in Heaven loves his wife, I know that the Book of Mormon is true, I know that Christ appeared to the Nephites in the America's, I know that Christ loves me, I know he has done everything he can, and still is doing everything he can to help me return to my father, I KNOW that the Mormon Church is true, God has told me many times of the truth of the Church, many times i have struggled within myself, and many times, have i realized, that the closer i follow the Mormon doctrine, the closer i am to Christ, I know that one day, i will return to God, and that when i do, I will get down on my knees in reverance and look up into his face, and i know when i do, i will see his love for me reflected in his eyes, I know that what i have learned is true, I know that Gordan B. Hinckley is a true living prophet of God, and i know he recieves revelation for the World, I know that if i keep the commandments and am faithful, i too can recieve personal revelation, I know that whoever seeks the truth faithfully, sincerely wanting to know the truth, i know they will find it, There is nothing anybody can say or do that will change my mind, I JUST KNOW IT IS TRUE, I leave you with my testimony of the truth of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ
Son of Man, you say that Jesus and Lucifer are not brothers, but by saying this, you leave a question, if Lucifer is not Jesus' brother, then he is not a Son of God, and if he is not a Son of God, then he was never created, So if he was never created, why does he exisit, and why does he have power over the hearts of men
you didnt answer my question, if God didnt create him, where did he come from? And if God did create him, he would be a brother of Jesus.
Most relgions refer to people as Brother or Sister, they do this, because it is true, we are all Brothers and Sisters, we are all Brothers and Sisters with Christ, and with Lucifer
Oh, the last time I went to a Mormon chruch was last Friday. I am qouting phophets, not ANTI- Mormon literature.Oh, I also prayed about the Book of Mormon also.I also STUDY , PONDER, and SEARCH.
No I am not mad at The Mormon chruch because of my parents divorce. You know what? I am not mad at Mormons, I am not only aganist Mormon teaching, also JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, ROMAN CATHOLICISM, and a whole bunch of other religous movements.(and other thiungs, like evoultion, etc. I label myself as an apolgists.) If you belive all that stuff good for you. I am sure you are a good person.
P.S I belive Jesus is The Son of God, I DONT belive that Jesu is bros. with satan. I refuse to belive something unbiblical like "Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both"(Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
later.
*sigh*
If that's what you believe Son of Man....then you are right as far as you are concerned. We are not trying to sell you anything. We aren't even trying to convince you of anything. We just have been trying to let you in on what and why we believe what we believe, but you just...aren't ready to hear it.
There's no point in arguing.