Mormons

Originally posted by Eis
Sick Chuck Norris on me? What the ****? 😂

*dies laughing*

*is ressurected*

Guys...seriously. Me saying that THE CHURCH IS TRUE...is merely my opinion of it. Any of you may have another opinion.

I'm not trying to force anything on you. For Example...

I EAT CHOCOLATE ONCE A MONTH SO I DON'T KILL PEOPLE!

is that my opinion? Yes...quite. Many women may agree with me...but many may not. It doesn't make the statement any more or less true to me, it's just what I feel is right...and true.

😂

I love messing with religious debators! BWAH HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

😈

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What is the big deal about "true"? You can know a religion by it's people, if the people are good, then the religion is good. What does it matter to be true? Can a religion be evil and true? If a religion is good then...

*hugs Shaky*

*gives him a cookie and a pretty new acoustic guitar*

Evil religions usually are true...about what they are preaching anyways. Good religions usually are true about what they preach also. It's what they know. It's what's true and right to them.

I personally believe in heaven. I've seen it. Take that as you may. No, I wasnt' having an out of body experience or dreaming. No...I wasn't on drugs. It's more real than anything here. This place is kinda like...a waiting room. Sure it's real...and it's long and frustrating...and there are a bunch of different people to see, but it's not IT for us.

Shaky...I take into account your beliefs as well. Eis, I am not sure what you believe...just that you want to be with your man and not get crap for it. Deb...you and I still need to have that talk about Energy and what happens to it beyond this life.

My belief in heaven isn't even based on the LDS religion. It's me...all me. There was no influence to make me see this or that. I saw what was real. I saw what I know I come from. I am a daughter of noble birth and some day...when I am ready and have waited my time and passed all the tests that this life offers...I will return to the Divinity that I left so long ago.

So now...religious debators....take that, smoke it up, and enlighten me.

😄

😂

Oh...and for those of you who are really pissed by my post...lighten up. Stop taking everything so seriously or you'll give yourself an ulcer.

Originally posted by Kella

So now...religious debators....take that, smoke it up, and enlighten me.

Lol! Smoke it up, that reminds me of what a kid said at our debate tournament when we got slaughtered, "they smoked us! They just rolled us up and smoked us!" Gah! it made me laugh so hard. Man, I love debate! 😄

Kudos to Kella!

😂 Glad you like it darlin.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
So are you saying judge a religion by the flawed and human members rather than its doctrine and through faith and prayer? The point of religion is to seek truth.

Or maybe I'm just confused by the post.

You are not confused, you just don't fully understand.

Yes, you can judge a religion by its people, but never judge a book by its cover, and never judge quickly. Every person possesses good and evil so, don't look for all good. Look for how people apply their religion in everyday life. Every religion has good and evil in it, but those who seek good, good will show in their everyday life. The person could be a beggar in old torn rags, or a rich man in a fine suit, but these things will not tell you a person’s heart. How they answer a simple question that calls into question what they believe will tell you a great deal. Someone who has a good heart will not be offended and will understand that some questions must be asked. Someone with fear, hate or pride in their heart will be upset at the stupid question asked by someone so ignorant.

Also, thanks Kella for the hug and new guitar. 💃

No problem hun. Always glad to give. 😄

Oh my gosh...I'm gonna get so jumped on. I should not post in any threads except the Mormon thread. I think I might have just offended like...half a million people with my post in the Trinity something or other thread.

😂

I don't mean to laugh, but it is kinda funny. And I thought people hated me before...hmm.

*gives hugs and cookies before the maming and murder of myself*

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are not confused, you just don't fully understand.

Yes, you can judge a religion by its people, but never judge a book by its cover, and never judge quickly. Every person possesses good and evil so, don't look for all good. Look for how people apply their religion in everyday life. Every religion has good and evil in it, but those who seek good, good will show in their everyday life. The person could be a beggar in old torn rags, or a rich man in a fine suit, but these things will not tell you a person’s heart. How they answer a simple question that calls into question what they believe will tell you a great deal. Someone who has a good heart will not be offended and will understand that some questions must be asked. Someone with fear, hate or pride in their heart will be upset at the stupid question asked by someone so ignorant.

Also, thanks Kella for the hug and new guitar. 💃

I understand that...but with regard to judging a religion by its people is pretty shaky ground considering the flaws you enumerated in the above post. If someone has a really bad experience with an LDS member...like say the Arkansan relatives of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, they will have a completely negative view of the religion. Is that a fair way to judge the truthfulness of the religion?

Originally posted by tlbauerle
I understand that...but with regard to judging a religion by its people is pretty shaky ground considering the flaws you enumerated in the above post. If someone has a really bad experience with an LDS member...like say the Arkansan relatives of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, they will have a completely negative view of the religion. Is that a fair way to judge the truthfulness of the religion?

No. That is why I say never judge quickly. One person or even a small group cannot give you enough information to make judgments about a larger group of people. However, each person does reflect their religion, and that cannot be discounted.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, each person does reflect their religion, and that cannot be discounted.

I would certainly elaborate on that as individuals may reflect their cultural, dogmatic, and spiritual beliefs...but not the 'religion.'

Religion is a set of organized, 'official' beliefs surrounding points of doctrine. You cannot judge doctrine based on people's reflections of culture, dogma, and personal beliefs.

Sure a person can believe in the 'official' doctirne, but perception, attitude, history...all very highly individualized things color and shape the reflection of that doctrine into something else.

I'm just saying that you judge a religion based on doctrine. If you base it on membership, you're judging culture, dogma, and interpretations...not doctrine. Certainly there are many LDS member who do not embrace correct doctrine and/or are living 'beneath their privliges' and do not accurately reflect the doctrinal teachings.

I submit that you cannot judge, quickly or otherwise, a religion based on its membership. You need to study the doctrine and teachings as seperate thing.

Sorry to wax philosophical here.

All of this is very true, you cannot judge a religion fully by members, and more spacifically a small group.

But the prophet of the LDS church said himself (when asked what the smybol of our chruch is), that as the cross is the symbol of most Christian denominations, the members of our church, or how they should try to lives their lives, is ours. And that is one reason he wishes them to follow the teachings allways.

So I hope you can easily judge that our religion is good by the people you meet that are members.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
I would certainly elaborate on that as individuals may reflect their cultural, dogmatic, and spiritual beliefs...but not the 'religion.'

Religion is a set of organized, 'official' beliefs surrounding points of doctrine. You cannot judge doctrine based on people's reflections of culture, dogma, and personal beliefs.

Sure a person can believe in the 'official' doctirne, but perception, attitude, history...all very highly individualized things color and shape the reflection of that doctrine into something else.

I'm just saying that you judge a religion based on doctrine. If you base it on membership, you're judging culture, dogma, and interpretations...not doctrine. Certainly there are many LDS member who do not embrace correct doctrine and/or are living 'beneath their privliges' and do not accurately reflect the doctrinal teachings.

I submit that you cannot judge, quickly or otherwise, a religion based on its membership. You need to study the doctrine and teachings as seperate thing.

Sorry to wax philosophical here.

Sorry, but I believe you are absolutely wrong.

I don’t care what your belief is; I only care if you are good or evil.

According to Christian dogma, once you are in the Church, you are filled with the Holly Spirit. So, if you are filled with the Holly Spirit, that will manifest its self in a person’s life. Do I have this right? So, are there members who don’t get the Holly Spirit when they become members? If you are a member of a good church, you should act “good”, is that wrong? Do you have members in your church who do not have the Holly Spirit and do evil?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
According to Christian dogma, once you are in the Church, you are filled with the Holly Spirit. So, if you are filled with the Holly Spirit, that will manifest its self in a person’s life. Do I have this right? So, are there members who don’t get the Holly Spirit when they become members? If you are a member of a good church, you should act “good”, is that wrong? Do you have members in your church who do not have the Holly Spirit and do evil?

People are human, and have fautls. The Holy Ghost is a gift we need to live worthy of. People can stray from the path and be good examples of a religion's teaching. I most certainly know people who are members of the LDS Church and do not or have not had the Holy Ghost with them.

There have been times in my life when I have not lived close to the Holy Ghost and have not been the example I should be. But because I slip and make mistakes doesn't mean you can judge my religion based on my actions in fault.

Originally posted by ~dorkerina~
All of this is very true, you cannot judge a religion fully by members, and more spacifically a small group.

But the prophet of the LDS church said himself (when asked what the smybol of our chruch is), that as the cross is the symbol of most Christian denominations, the members of our church, or how they should try to lives their lives, is ours. And that is one reason he wishes them to follow the teachings allways.

So I hope you can easily judge that our religion is good by the people you meet that are members.

The key word is should. And that is a reason to live the teachings. But it doesn't happen all the time. If you want to see the most un-Christian LDS members, rent the documentary THIS DIVIDED STATE.

I am LDS. I'm a convert of over six years. Married, sealed in the Temple. Active.

BUT there have certainly been times in my past when I would not have wanted people to judge the church based on me. I know plenty of members, or have had contact with members whom I would not want people to judge the church by.

Sure, as President Hinckley says, it is an ideal to strive for...always. But for now...it is most certainly not the way to judge the LDS church and its doctrines and precepts.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
People are human, and have fautls. The Holy Ghost is a gift we need to live worthy of. People can stray from the path and be good examples of a religion's teaching. I most certainly know people who are members of the LDS Church and do not or have not had the Holy Ghost with them.

There have been times in my life when I have not lived close to the Holy Ghost and have not been the example I should be. But because I slip and make mistakes doesn't mean you can judge my religion based on my actions in fault.
...

I know what you are talking about. There is good and evil in every person. However, a set of rules and practices are nothing without people. Religion is nothing without people. The amount of “good” that a religion brings into a person’s life is a reflection of the strength of the religion.

When reading your post I wonder to myself, what does judgment mean to this person? I think it is different to you, then what it means to me. So, I will try to make myself clear.

IMO:

1. All religions are true, but none are all true.
2. Good and evil are do not exist without each other, but are properties of the true nature of reality.
3. There is no war between good and evil. So, the claim to be the true church means nothing to me.
4. What is most important is quality of life and clarity of enlightenment, or, in other words, the joy of the Holly Spirit.

I know that you do not believe the same as I do. But if you think about how I believe, you will see what I mean by judgment. I am only judging about what a church does in society and this Earth.

Uhm...I am happy to be LDS and to be an example...most days. But uhm...why does this seem to draw the guys that are loaded with drama to me?

There is this guy who really likes me and he flirts with me and walks me to my car and kisses the back of my hand...and all that jazz, but he has a live-in girlfriend and they have 4 kids together! I'm all like...I don't have time for a relationship, but I do like you. And I do like him, but no.

He always talks about how I'm such a good person and how I am different than so many of the women he's known before. He says that there is a light in me that makes me special. That I'm beautiful inside and out and that my sincere smile is what draws people to me.

He's a smooth talker obviously, but it started to make me think of when I was younger...before my life went to crap. People used to tell me those exact same things. People at church and outside of the church. And I lost it for a long time, but he sees it...so I must be getting back to where I want to be. That makes me happy.

I just wanted to share...sorry.

WWJD? He would CTR!
😂

😄

^ I can see it in your writing.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know what you are talking about. There is good and evil in every person. However, a set of rules and practices are nothing without people. Religion is nothing without people. The amount of “good” that a religion brings into a person’s life is a reflection of the strength of the religion.

When reading your post I wonder to myself, what does judgment mean to this person? I think it is different to you, then what it means to me. So, I will try to make myself clear.

IMO:

1. All religions are true, but none are all true.
2. Good and evil are do not exist without each other, but are properties of the true nature of reality.
3. There is no war between good and evil. So, the claim to be the true church means nothing to me.
4. What is most important is quality of life and clarity of enlightenment, or, in other words, the joy of the Holly Spirit.

I know that you do not believe the same as I do. But if you think about how I believe, you will see what I mean by judgment. I am only judging about what a church does in society and this Earth.

So you're talking about making a judgement on how effective a religion's teaching is, not the accuracy or truthfulness of the religion itself.

Bing!

That makes total sense...its more a symantic problem of judging. In that sense I totally agree with what you are saying. Especially in the gnostic sense of Christiantity.

(I'm actually probably more of a gnostic Mormon than anything.)

But in judging the correctness of religious doctrine, or in trying to evaluate truth, the membership is the last place you want to look.

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Kella...ditch the drama. Be patient, and move forward. It's all good... 😉

Why did Utah ban Brokeback Mountain?

Utah didn't ban brokeback mountin, I heard video store owner talking about ordering it just yesterday.

But most of the people here do not support (that doesn't mean not tolerate) the gay life style, and would not go see such a movie. It would be bad buisness to put it into theatres because of low viewing rate.

But Larry H. Miller did choose not to show it in his theaters. He feels it goes against his standards, and he has every right as the owner of the theaters not to show it.

I personally won't see it 1) because it's rated R, and 2) because I don't have to accept that as a mormal, or right life style. Dont' tell me I'm close minded, or immature, I'm not. I simply have different Standars than you. I don't care if you see it, and I'm not about to rally against a place that is showing it. In fact, I don't care if your Gay, I'll treat you like anyone else. But I'm not going to support the life style.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
So you're talking about making a judgement on how effective a religion's teaching is, not the accuracy or truthfulness of the religion itself.

Bing!

That makes total sense...its more a symantic problem of judging. In that sense I totally agree with what you are saying. Especially in the gnostic sense of Christiantity.

(I'm actually probably more of a gnostic Mormon than anything.)

But in judging the correctness of religious doctrine, or in trying to evaluate truth, the membership is the last place you want to look.

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Kella...ditch the drama. Be patient, and move forward. It's all good... 😉

It is not for me to judge “correctness of religious doctrine, or in trying to evaluate truth” of any religion that I am not a part of. I only make that judgment of my own religion.