Mormons

*["...As to the first one..I've never heard that. Ask Regret."]

***Nah...you don't have to ask "Bishop" Regret for he would only DENY it...you can read it for yourself in: "THE GOSPEL THRU THE AGES" by Milton R. Hunter [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1957), page 15]...to wit: "The appointment of Jesus to be Savior of the world was CONTESTED by one of the OTHER SONS of God. He was called LUCIFER, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this SPIRIT-BROTHER of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of Mankind."

And, of course, such a statement is CONTRARY to Christian doctrine as espoused in the Scriptures [the Bible]...which makes it clear that Jesus COULD NOT have been the Devil's BROTHER...spirit or otherwise...to wit:

Lucifer's Fall:

"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;...Thou art the annointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways FROM the DAY that thou WAST CREATED...till INIQUITY was FOUND IN THEE" [Ezekiel 28: 13-15].

"For BY Him were ALL THINGS CREATED, that are IN HEAVEN, and that are IN EARTH, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS were CREATED BY Him and FOR Him" [Colossians 1:16].

"But to us there IS but ONE God, the FATHER, of whom are ALL THINGS, and we IN Him; and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, BY whom are ALL THINGS, and we BY Him" [1 Corinthians 8:6].

"ALL THINGS were MADE BY Him; and WITHOUT Him was NOT ANYTHING MADE that was MADE" [John 1:3].

BOTTOM-LINE: LUCIFER is a CREATED BEING according to [Ezekiel 28:13-15]. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be the SPIRIT BROTHER of your OWN CREATION.

So then...Mormonism is a POLYTHEISTIC ANTI-BIBLICAL CULT of gigantic proportions. Here are some of their spurious doctrines: (1)Denial of the Virgin birth of Christ, (2)Jesus was the one who was married at the marriage feast of Cana...and that Mary, Marth and others were His wives, and that He begat children, (3)Denial of the Blood Atonement of Christ, (4)Jesus Christ was crucified because He practiced POLYGAMY, (5) Etc...

Please ask me to REFERENCE my statements above and others...I will gladly do this for your information.

Marchello

Originally posted by Regret
Lol, Christians complaining that someone is proselytizing them, and being pushy? 😆 It is hypocritical for a Christian to hold such a stance. Yes, we do proselytize, but we are not pushy, merely present.

Originally posted by Alliance
Jesus's divinity and the trinity are issues in many more cults of Christianity than Mormonism. You cna find those debates in any branch of the church, going back to its formation.

As to the first one..I've never heard that. Ask Regret.

Mormonism isn't the only one. Jehovah's witness is another, something which Peejayd attests to being. The easiest way to identify them is to ask who they believe Christ was, or if Christ is one and the same person as the father. Their answers generally fall under these following categories:

1. Christ was a great prophet, not God.
2. Christ was a god among many other gods and he is a lesser god than the father, not one in the same. Usually they won't tell you this off the bat though, they'll just say he is God.
3. Christ was just a man, who was able to become a god through his works, usually described in a similar way as number 2.

I'm sure that's not all of them. So basically, they all fall under the category of denying or diminishing the divinity of Christ in some way shape or form, and are not considered Christian doctrines by the mainstream.

Originally posted by Thundar
Mormonism isn't the only one. Jehovah's witness is another, something which Peejayd attests to being. The easiest way to identify them is to ask who they believe Christ was, or if Christ is one and the same person as the father. Their answers generally fall under these following categories:

1. Christ was a great prophet, not God.
2. Christ was a god among many other gods and he is a lesser god than the father, not one in the same. Usually they won't tell you this off the bat though, they'll just say he is God.
3. Christ was just a man, who was able to become a god through his works, usually described in a similar way as number 2.

I'm sure that's not all of them. So basically, they all fall under the category of denying or diminishing the divinity of Christ in some way shape or form, and are not considered Christian doctrines by the mainstream.

One must be ever vigilant and filled with the Holy Spirit to recognize these things. In saying that, I just wanted to add that there are a few other techniques used, that I'm just beginning to understand and discern with the spiritual gifts of discernment that God has given to me. Such techniques involve these religious Christians, knowing just about everything regarding the scriptures, and presenting them in a Godly fashion, however, they'll use one minor deceptive word, phrase, or idea to indicate that the doctrine they follow is not a Christian one.

Ex. God has evil within him, since he has knowledge of evil.

This statement is a false one, and goes directly against God being fully loving, and possessing no evil within him. So anyway, one must be extremely careful in these final days of confusion, and pray to God each day for discernment, if they are to detect all of them.

Originally posted by Thundar
Ex. God has evil within him, since he has knowledge of evil.

Page 7:

Consider Christ's explicit utterance:

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall NOT pass away" [Matthew 24:35].

It is clear the early Christians received the teaching of the apostles as AUTHORATATIVE. We see proof of this from the Book of Acts:

"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers" [Acts 2:42].

Normally, if you do not believe a doctrine is authoritative you will not continue in it. In the following verses notice how Paul viewed his own epistles and their origin. Because of the truth of apostolic authority, Paul is able to say:

"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write [grapho] unto you are the
commandments of the Lord" [I Cor. 14:37].

"Paul, An apostle, (NOT OF men, NEITHER BY man, BUT BY Jesus Christ, and GOD the Father, who raised him from the dead😉.... But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is NOT AFTER MAN. For I neither received it OF MAN, neither was I taught it, but BY REVELATION of Jesus Christ" [Galatians 1:1,11,12].

"And the things that thou hast heard [akouo] of me, among many
witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also" [(II Timothy 2:2].

"For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake" [I Thess. 1:5].

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe" [II Thess. 2:13].

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, [teaching, preaching] or our epistle. [written down]" [II Thess. 2:15].

Consider the further testimony of Scripture. Notice in particular how Peter views Paul's writings. Peter places Paul's epistles at the same level as the rest of Scripture:

(Continued)

Originally posted by Thundar
One must be ever vigilant and filled with the Holy Spirit to recognize these things. In saying that, I just wanted to add that there are a few other techniques used, that I'm just beginning to understand and discern with the spiritual gifts of discernment that God has given to me. Such techniques involve these religious Christians, knowing just about everything regarding the scriptures, and presenting them in a Godly fashion, however, they'll use one minor deceptive word, phrase, or idea to indicate that the doctrine they follow is not a Christian one.

Ex. God has evil within him, since he has knowledge of evil.

This statement is a false one, and goes directly against God being fully loving, and possessing no evil within him. So anyway, one must be extremely careful in these final days of confusion, and pray to God each day for discernment, if they are to detect all of them.

***Thundar:

Everything you have said is true. However, I find that the biggest factor is that the CULTS [i.e., Mormonism, JW's, Christadelphians, etc.] do NOT BELIEVE in the Word of God [Bible] nor consider it AUTHORATIVE...and use any wile of the Devil to DISCREDIT it...devise their own man-made writings to valid their own belief systems. Too, they usually follow the person who has started their corrupt systems and designate him/her as the AUTHORITY on which their beliefs are based.

BOTTOM-LINE: When one does not believe in the AUTHORITY of the Holy Scriptures [the Bible] as the Word Of God...the FINAL COURT of APPEAL in the things of God...then he is WRONG in everything else. That is why I am going through the litany of putting down the beliefs of the Mormons...starting with the Doctrine of the Scriptures as my base then proceeding from there.

Marchello

Originally posted by Nellinator
It might be easier to openly discuss these things with people to clarify so that false judgements are not passed 😉. Remember 2 Timothy 3:14-17 and 2 Timothy 4:2 as that might easily solve any problems you might have.

Thank you for the clarification of what was stated in the other thread Nellinator, and for providing these verses. I've read them, and I'll have to do some praying on them, to make sure that I'm completely understanding everything correctly.

You are indeed correct I shouldn't rush to judgement, unfortunately I'm fairly emotive, and being such I'm generally the type of person to speak first and ask questions later, particularly when it involves anything I may interpret as possibly diminishing to God's character.

I truly apologize if anything said offended you, as that really was not my intention. I do have some additional questions for you that I'll save for a later time, as I think they will take away from the topic of this thread. God bless

To Marchello:

Urizen, Peejayd, whatever..stop already...the farcical act is getting silly. And I'm not that easily deceived.

Originally posted by Thundar
Mormonism isn't the only one. Jehovah's witness is another, something which Peejayd attests to being. The easiest way to identify them is to ask who they believe Christ was, or if Christ is one and the same person as the father. Their answers generally fall under these following categories:

1. Christ was a great prophet, not God.
2. Christ was a god among many other gods and he is a lesser god than the father, not one in the same. Usually they won't tell you this off the bat though, they'll just say he is God.
3. Christ was just a man, who was able to become a god through his works, usually described in a similar way as number 2.

I'm sure that's not all of them. So basically, they all fall under the category of denying or diminishing the divinity of Christ in some way shape or form, and are not considered Christian doctrines by the mainstream.

No, we do not believe he is "lesser" than the Father:

John 5: 18
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Philip. 2: 5-6
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Christ did not think it lessened the Father by being equal to him, something you claim would lessen the Father.

Mormons gathered in Utah.
Mormons polygamist

Originally posted by Smiter
Mormons gathered in Utah.
Mormons polygamist

Articles of Faith

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

Thus God released of the requirement to practice polygamy. The Mormons have not practiced polygamy since the Manifesto:

OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1
To Whom It May Concern:
Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—
I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.
One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.
There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.
Wilford Woodruff
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:
“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”
The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.
Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

And sustaining is not voting as has been insinuated and stated by our detractors. Mormons do not vote as to whether or not to accept revelation. Mormons publicly show support for the statement being made, it is not voted on whether it is or is not something that has been said. The "vote" is a statement by the body of the church as to the lay members acceptance to live by the council provided by God through the prophets. Similarly, Israel desired a king when God told them that such was not a wise course of action, they, the Israelites or body of the church at that time, did not support, or vote to sustain, the idea that they should not have a king, so God gave them a king.

*["...To Marchello:

Urizen, Peejayd, whatever..stop already...the farcical act is getting silly. And I'm not that easily deceived."]

***Please explain your post to me.

Marchello

Originally posted by Thundar
Thank you for the clarification of what was stated in the other thread Nellinator, and for providing these verses. I've read them, and I'll have to do some praying on them, to make sure that I'm completely understanding everything correctly.

You are indeed correct I shouldn't rush to judgement, unfortunately I'm fairly emotive, and being such I'm generally the type of person to speak first and ask questions later, particularly when it involves anything I may interpret as possibly diminishing to God's character.

I truly apologize if anything said offended you, as that really was not my intention. I do have some additional questions for you that I'll save for a later time, as I think they will take away from the topic of this thread. God bless

Jesus always with God, Lucifer is the first creation then Michael then other angels.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Jesus always with God, Lucifer is the first creation then Michael then other angels.

Why rank them like that? There's no biblical support for any of what you said except that Jesus was always with God.

Lucifer was the first creation that what chereb means "first", he was the first angel then michael and the others, Lucifer was the top ArchAngel in heaven before he fell from grace.

After Lucifer fell, Archangel Michael is the top Angel in heaven.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Lucifer was the first creation that what chereb means "first", he was the first angel then michael and the others, Lucifer was the top ArchAngel in heaven before he fell from grace.

[cough]seraphim kick his a$$[/cough]

Originally posted by docb77
Why rank them like that? There's no biblical support for any of what you said except that Jesus was always with God.

Originally posted by the Darkone
After Lucifer fell, Archangel Michael is the top Angel in heaven.

Angels

These are the messengers of the Lord, and are spoken of in the epistle to the Hebrews as “ministering spirits” (Heb. 1: 14).

There are many references to the work of angels in the O.T. In some passages the “angel of the Lord” speaks as the voice of God himself (Gen. 22: 11-12). The word angel is also sometimes used to designate a human messenger and may have some application in Matt. 13: 39-42. There is evidence of nonmortal beings who serve God in heaven (1 Kgs. 22: 19; cf. Alma 36: 22) and also of some who do God’s will and minister to men on the earth (Gen. 28: 12; Gen. 32: 1; 2 Sam. 24: 16; 1 Kgs. 19: 5-7; 2 Kgs. 1: 15; 2 Kgs. 19: 35; Ps. 91: 11.

We find angels mentioned by name in Dan. 8: 16; Dan. 9: 21; Dan. 10: 13, 21; Dan. 12: 1; Luke 1: 19, 26.

In the N.T. there are many references to the ministry of angels, but no clear statement as to their nature or their relation to mankind in general. Angels attended on our Lord throughout his life on earth (Matt. 1: 20; Matt. 2: 13, 19; Matt. 4: 11; Matt. 28: 2-8; Luke 1: 11-20, 26-30; Luke 2: 9-15; Luke 22: 43). Jesus often spoke of angels (Matt. 13: 14-30, 37-41; Matt. 16: 27; Matt. 18: 10; Matt. 22: 30; Matt. 24: 36; Luke 15: 10, etc.). The Sadducees did not believe in supernatural beings, but the Pharisees believed in both angels and spirits which fact Paul used to his advantage when brought before the Sanhedrin (Acts 23: 7-9). Other N.T. references are Acts 7: 53; 1 Cor. 4: 9; 1 Cor. 6: 3; 1 Cor. 11: 10; Gal. 1: 8; Gal. 3: 19; Col. 2: 18 (where we are warned against worship of angels), and throughout the Revelation of John. There are references to fallen angels in 2 Pet. 2: 4 and Jude 1: 6.

Show me more Biblical reference and less personal statement as to your position.