I'm about to finish a book on a former Mormon preacher "God Maker", who even says that Mormons faith, church is a false doctrine. After reading other books and watching DVD the mormon faith and church is false, this is not a attack on mormon people what so ever I believe they are good moral people but they are being led
Originally posted by the DarkoneLol, Satan used to be an angel, does this logic make his statements accurate as well? Ed Decker didn't even understand much of Church Doctrine, the video as well as the book are full of erroneous claims as to our beliefs. He comes close enough to fool anyone that doesn't understand our beliefs, but he is often so far off the mark he it is laughable.
I'm about to finish a book on a former Mormon preacher "God Maker", who even says that Mormons faith, church is a false doctrine. After reading other books and watching DVD the mormon faith and church is false, this is not a attack on mormon people what so ever I believe they are good moral people but they are being led
Originally posted by Thundar
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, [b]I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ?I am has sent me to you.?"John 8:57-58
"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!""I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born,
I am!"Revelations 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.So Jesus is at the beginning and end as he represents God in the flesh, and refers to himself as being the great "I AM" that came before Abraham in John 8:58. It's difficult to grasp I know, but one must have faith in what he's saying to be true in order to be saved. Not having faith in him being God, is essentially calling him a liar and disregarding his sacrifice on the cross.
Moving away from the discussion for a bit, were you raised a Mormon or were you a convert? [/B]
***Jesus not only "represents" God in the flesh...Jesus IS...[repeat]...IS God in the FLESH...for it is written: "Then saith he to Thomas, 'Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.' And Thomas answered and said unto him, MY LORD and MY GOD [John 20:27-28].
Marchello
*["We acknowledge Jesus as Savior (albeit he was the first of God's creation). You say that Jesus was crucified to pay the penalty for your sins but we believe that his crucifixion was based upon polygamy. A belief in the doctrine of plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might think they were mormons."]
***The "Jesus" that you acknowledge as savior is NOT the Jesus that CHRISTIANS ADORE as OUR SAVIOR and GOD...but is, in fact, ANOTHER
"jesus" who can save NO ONE because he is NOT God...to wit: "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know NO god but ME: for THERE IS NO SAVIOUR BESIDE ME" [Hosea 13:4]..."For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, THY SAVIOUR: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee" [Isaiah 43:3]..."To the ONLY WISE GOD our SAVIOUR, glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen" [Jude 25]...and again..."To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ OUR SAVIOUR' [Titus 1:4]. Only God is Saviour...and since Jesus IS GOD ALMIGHTY...He ALONE is SAVIOUR being GOD [i.e., who ALONE IS SAVIOUR].
BOTTOMLINE: You have NO SAVIOUR...for "your Jesus" was a CREATED
being and NOT God...so he CANNOT be and is NOT Saviour for ONLY God is Saviour [Hosea 13:4;Jude 25].
****************************************************
And, of course, you do ERR not knowing the Scriptures...nor believing them that you might be saved.
Jesus came to save SINNERS: "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS, of whom I am chief" [1 Timothy 1:15]. Too, He was persecuted by the Jewish religious establishment [who used the Romans to execute Him because their right to use Capital Punishment was taken away from them] who accused Him of BLASPHEMY...to wit: "Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?' The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for BLASPHEMY; and because that thou, being a man, MAKEST THYSELF GOD" [John 10:31-33].
BOTTOMLINE: Jesus Christ came to save SINNERS...and COULD because He CLAIMED to be GOD ALMIGHTY and WAS INDEED...the SAME God of the OT...and the ONE whom Hosea believed in and could say: "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is NO SAVIOUR beside ME" [Hosea 13:4].
Marchello
Originally posted by docb77
Where are you getting this??? You obviously know less than LDS doctrine than I ever gave you credit for, and that's saying something. You're just pulling lies out of your ***.I'm glad to see that you signed your post with your own name, because it sure isn't the word of God.
***docb77:
My references are as follows:
(1)"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon POLYGAMY, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might think they were Mormons." [Jedediah M. Grant, Journal of Discourses, Volume 1, (Liverpool: 1854), p. 346]
(2)Regret posted the following: "...If he had always been with God the grammar is clumsy. I take it to mean that Christ was God's FIRST CREATION, thus, "in the beginning was the Word," not "always was the Word."
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
***docb77:My references are as follows:
(1)"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon POLYGAMY, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might think they were Mormons." [Jedediah M. Grant, Journal of Discourses, Volume 1, (Liverpool: 1854), p. 346]
(2)Regret posted the following: "...If he had always been with God the grammar is clumsy. I take it to mean that Christ was God's FIRST CREATION, thus, "in the beginning was the Word," not "always was the Word."
Marchello
***ADDENDA:
The CREATION statement by Regret was made in response to Thundar in Section [69] of this thread at 09:31 A.M. on 1/31/2007.
Marchello
You do realize that the Journal of Discourses has never been considered doctrine don't you?
Doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is this
- The Bible
- The Book of Mormon
- The Doctrine and Covenants
- The Pearl of Great Price
- Revelation given by the prophet and presented for a sustaining vote to the general membership at a General Conference of the church.
Consider anything else opinion of the person who wrote or said it. Some opinions carry more weight than others.
Originally posted by docb77
You do realize that the Journal of Discourses has never been considered doctrine don't you?Doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is this
- The Bible
- The Book of Mormon
- The Doctrine and Covenants
- The Pearl of Great Price
- Revelation given by the prophet and presented for a sustaining vote to the general membership at a General Conference of the church.Consider anything else opinion of the person who wrote or said it. Some opinions carry more weight than others.
***Your footwork is dazzling...but no cigar. You can deny what I said but your other "writings" CONFIRM what these guys said...so it matters not one wit if they are in your accepted writings or not. Too, NONE of your writings are "inspired"...and are ONLY 'inspired" by your church.
Your church does NOT accept the Bible as a basis for your doctrine. In point of fact your doctrine is in direct opposition to the Scriptures...so I dismiss your statement as just a CROCK. You are IDOL WORSHIPERS and POLYTHEISTS and NOT Christians at all.
The tactic used by your church is an obvious one. Its purpose is to discredit the Scriptures [Bible]...for they expose you for what you really are...a SATANIC cult of gigantic proportions. Like the JW's you have written your own "inspired" version to support your specious doctrines and then put forth the claim that you believe "the Bible"...when in fact you DON'T.
As for your other writings...they are NOT inspired...and are the inventions of unregenerate men who have rejected the God of Israel [Jesus Christ] and replaced Him with a MULTITUDE of "gods" [i.e., demons]. In fact, your Father LUCIFER tried to elevate his throne above the very throne of God...just as you and your cult do NOW...and would ascend the heavens and "become as gods." The REALITY is that MAN CANNOT become God...but GOD CAN become a MAN...and DID in the person of Jesus Christ our Lord. Why?...to REDEEM us from the CONSEQUENCES of our SINS: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" [Romans 5:8].
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
***Your footwork is dazzling...but no cigar. You can deny what I said but your other "writings" CONFIRM what these guys said...so it matters not one wit if they are in your accepted writings or not. Too, NONE of your writings are "inspired"...and are ONLY 'inspired" by your church.Your church does NOT accept the Bible as a basis for your doctrine. In point of fact your doctrine is in direct opposition to the Scriptures...so I dismiss your statement as just a CROCK. You are IDOL WORSHIPERS and POLYTHEISTS and NOT Christians at all.
The tactic used by your church is an obvious one. Its purpose is to discredit the Scriptures [Bible]...for they expose you for what you really are...a SATANIC cult of gigantic proportions. Like the JW's you have written your own "inspired" version to support your specious doctrines and then put forth the claim that you believe "the Bible"...when in fact you DON'T.
As for your other writings...they are NOT inspired...and are the inventions of unregenerate men who have rejected the God of Israel [Jesus Christ] and replaced Him with a MULTITUDE of "gods" [i.e., demons]. In fact, your Father LUCIFER tried to elevate his throne above the very throne of God...just as you and your cult do NOW...and would ascend the heavens and "become as gods." The REALITY is that MAN CANNOT become God...but GOD CAN become a MAN...and DID in the person of Jesus Christ our Lord. Why?...to REDEEM us from the CONSEQUENCES of our SINS: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" [Romans 5:8].
Marchello
Believe your lies if you want, doesn't change the truth. A further truth is that very little of your disagreement with us actually is based on biblical truth. Only on your interpretation of a few verses.
In other words "you do err, not knowing (understanding) the scriptures"
Originally posted by docb77
Believe your lies if you want, doesn't change the truth. A further truth is that very little of your disagreement with us actually is based on biblical truth. Only on your interpretation of a few verses.In other words "you do err, not knowing (understanding) the scriptures"
Don't talk to M*******o!
Alma 421 And now, my son, I perceive there is somewhat more which doth worry your mind, which ye cannot understand—which is concerning the justice of God in the punishment of the sinner; for ye do try to suppose that it is injustice that the sinner should be consigned to a state of misery.
2 Now behold, my son, I will explain this thing unto thee. For behold, after the Lord God sent our first parents forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground, from whence they were taken—yea, he drew out the man, and he placed at the east end of the garden of Eden, cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the tree of life—
3 Now, we see that the man had become as God, knowing good and evil; and lest he should put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever, the Lord God placed cherubim and the flaming sword, that he should not partake of the fruit—
4 And thus we see, that there was a time granted unto man to repent, yea, a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God.
5 For behold, if Adam had put forth his hand immediately, and partaken of the tree of life, he would have lived forever, according to the word of God, having no space for repentance; yea, and also the word of God would have been void, and the great plan of salvation would have been frustrated.
6 But behold, it was appointed unto man to die—therefore, as they were cut off from the tree of life they should be cut off from the face of the earth—and man became lost forever, yea, they became fallen man.
7 And now, ye see by this that our first parents were cut off both temporally and spiritually from the presence of the Lord; and thus we see they became subjects to follow after their own will.
8 Now behold, it was not expedient that man should be reclaimed from this temporal death, for that would destroy the great plan of happiness.
9 Therefore, as the soul could never die, and the fall had brought upon all mankind a spiritual death as well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord, it was expedient that mankind should be reclaimed from this spiritual death.
10 Therefore, as they had become carnal, sensual, and devilish, by nature, this probationary state became a state for them to prepare; it became a preparatory state.
11 And now remember, my son, if it were not for the plan of redemption, (laying it aside) as soon as they were dead their souls were miserable, being cut off from the presence of the Lord.
12 And now, there was no means to reclaim men from this fallen state, which man had brought upon himself because of his own disobedience;
13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.
14 And thus we see that all mankind were fallen, and they were in the grasp of justice; yea, the justice of God, which consigned them forever to be cut off from his presence.
15 And now, the plan of mercy could not be brought about except an atonement should be made; therefore God himself atoneth for the sins of the world, to bring about the plan of mercy, to appease the demands of justice, that God might be a perfect, just God, and a merciful God also.
16 Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment, which also was eternal as the life of the soul should be, affixed opposite to the plan of happiness, which was as eternal also as the life of the soul.
17 Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? How could there be a law save there was a punishment?
18 Now, there was a punishment affixed, and a just law given, which brought remorse of conscience unto man.
19 Now, if there was no law given—if a man murdered he should die—would he be afraid he would die if he should murder?
20 And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin.
21 And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature?
22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.
23 But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.
24 For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.
25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.
26 And thus God bringeth about his great and eternal purposes, which were prepared from the foundation of the world. And thus cometh about the salvation and the redemption of men, and also their destruction and misery.
27 Therefore, O my son, whosoever will come may come and partake of the waters of life freely; and whosoever will not come the same is not compelled to come; but in the last day it shall be restored unto him according to his deeds.
28 If he has desired to do evil, and has not repented in his days, behold, evil shall be done unto him, according to the restoration of God.
29 And now, my son, I desire that ye should let these things trouble you no more, and only let your sins trouble you, with that trouble which shall bring you down unto repentance.
30 O my son, I desire that ye should deny the justice of God no more. Do not endeavor to excuse yourself in the least point because of your sins, by denying the justice of God; but do you let the justice of God, and his mercy, and his long-suffering have full sway in your heart; and let it bring you down to the dust in humility.
31 And now, O my son, ye are called of God to preach the word unto this people. And now, my son, go thy way, declare the word with truth and soberness, that thou mayest bring souls unto repentance, that the great plan of mercy may have claim upon them. And may God grant unto you even according to my words. Amen.
Originally posted by Regret
***And, of course, NONE of this is the Inspired Scripture entrusted to the Jews by God 5,000 years ago [Romans 3:2]...nor the writing of the Apostles...but the PLAGIARIZED writings of an UNREGENERATE SINNER who, like his Father SATAN before him, was "...a MURDERER from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a LIE, he speaketh of his own: for he is a LIAR, and the father of it" [John 8:44].
The Inspired Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments tell us there is but ONE God [i.e., the SHEMA]: "Hear, O Isreal:The LORD our God is one LORD" [Deuteronomy 6:4]...NOT many "gods." Your father Satan propagated that LIE when he DECEIVED mother Eve in the Garden of Eden...let me read it to you: "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and YE SHALL BE AS GODS, knowing good and evil" [Genesis 3:5]. There you have it...and YOU and your SATANIC CULT have propagated this SAME LIE that your father, the DEVIL, started in the Garden [for you are of your father the Devil and his works you will do]..for the apple never falls far from the tree.
Like all CULTS you make it your PRIME mission to DISCREDIT the Inspired Scriptures of God...for they are your most formidable adversary and EXPOSE you for what you really are...a DEMONIC CULT of EPIC proportions.
All CULTS have ONE thing in COMMON...they ALL DENY the ABSOLUTE DEITY of Jesus Christ...DENY that He is the ONLY mediator between God and Man [1 Timothy 2:5]. Jesus Christ is the "stone of stumbling" for you all...for you DENY that He is the God come down from heaven to die for the SINS of all men. For that you will PERISH..."Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be SAVED" [Acts 4:12]. Too, because of your unbelief, you wrote your own "version" of the Scriptures and other books or writings to substantiate your aberrant belief system [i.e., ala Roman Catholicism, Jehovah Witnesses, Christdelphians, etc.].
Finally...because we have no basis for "dialogue" I will NOT communicate with you at all...I'll leave that to others on this board who feel that they can have meaningful dialogue with you because it is "loving."
Marchello
Originally posted by docb77
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use scriptural rails more than Mister M*******o.Just remember that Satan used scripture to tempt Christ. He's pretty much on the same level.
Yup, and remember the same scriptures used to tempt Christ, were the same scriptures used to get Satan's sons(the Pharisees) to justify calling Christ himself a demon.
Yup, and remember the same scriptures used to tempt Christ, were the same scriptures used to get Satan's sons(or the Pharisees) to justify calling Christ himself a demon😂 😂 you christians always looks for scapegoats even though the biggest sinners toward jesus was the one who followed and follows this jesus ways