Juggernaut vs Silver Surfer

Just to clarify people seem to think this is two normal versions.
As I stated both Bloodlusted both want to kill each other and no one will leave until that is done.
Juggs has also shown the ability to flex his arms and break through solid shields of metal before.
He has also knocked down a skyscrapper with a shoulder ram. He has taken Thor's God force Blast head on.
This is bloodlusted Juggs.
My favorite quote in the D-Spayre comic.
Juggernaut, "When I feel Rage nothing can stop me."
After he had his flesh magically removed.
Of course we know what a bloodlusted Silver Surfer can do.

hmm, the transmutation aspect is very unclear. don't trust bios . . . ss has transmuted things in the past. (i've had enough debates with kg and enough scans to know that is true . . .)

and yah, ss wins in a number of ways, as isa id a long time ago . . .

psionics though, isn't too likely i don't think. show an instance of offensive psionic ability by ss and i'll agree . . .

Originally posted by newjak86
Of course we know what a bloodlusted Silver Surfer can do.

I don't...in fact--dare I admit--I've never seen him "bloodlusted."

Anyone got any scans highlighting the above? Would love to see.

Originally posted by leonidas
.

psionics though, isn't too likely i don't think. show an instance of offensive psionic ability by ss and i'll agree . . .

He has shown both psionic and empathic ability on various occassions in comics. As long as he's facing a person with no psionic talent theres absolutely no reason why he shouldnt be able to take Jugg out psionically.

proof? i've asked before and even kg hasn't been able to show it. empathy is i suppose an option, but i don't know that it would work on juggs like it did on hulk.

in any event, wouldn't the force field keep ss from getting the helmet off in the first place? thor's hammer couldn't even touch juggs. how will he get the helmet off? is this even classic juggs we're talking about?

Originally posted by leonidas
proof? i've asked before and even kg hasn't been able to show it. empathy is i suppose an option, but i don't know that it would work on juggs like it did on hulk.

in any event, wouldn't the force field keep ss from getting the helmet off in the first place? thor's hammer couldn't even touch juggs. how will he get the helmet off? is this even classic juggs we're talking about?

Originally posted by leonidas
proof? i've asked before and even kg hasn't been able to show it. empathy is i suppose an option, but i don't know that it would work on juggs like it did on hulk.

in any event, wouldn't the force field keep ss from getting the helmet off in the first place? thor's hammer couldn't even touch juggs. how will he get the helmet off? is this even classic juggs we're talking about?

Good point. Surfer won't even be able to get his helmet off at all, not with that forcefield and all.

I still say this is a stalemate. Juggy will never touch Surfer, but Surfer won't be able to fully stop Juggy.

I'm not saying Juggernaut will win. In fact, I'm sure I specifically said he'd lose in the last Juggernaut vs Surfer thread.

But here.

As I thought. The power of the Celestials... supercedes all but my own.

Notice that 'supersedes' is misspelled and that he also explains the Celestial energy has supremacy over Juggernaut's enchantments. Not surprising. Celestials are bad-asses.

He overpowers Juggernaut by depowering him.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I'm not saying Juggernaut will win. In fact, I'm sure I specifically said he'd lose in the last Juggernaut vs Surfer thread.

But here.

[b]As I thought. The power of the Celestials... supercedes all but my own.

Notice that 'supersedes' is misspelled and that he also explains the Celestial energy has supremacy over Juggernaut's enchantments. Not surprising. Celestials are bad-asses.

He overpowers Juggernaut by depowering him. [/B]

Exactly. There was no overpowering. Just depowering.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

He overpowers Juggernaut by depowering him.

So where does it mention Juggs got depowered? It doesnt in that scan. I hope this doesnt stem from the word "supercedes". If so then your comment is unfounded.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Exactly. There was no overpowering. Just depowering.

Based on what exactly? 😕

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So where does it mention Juggs got depowered? It doesnt in that scan. I hope this doesnt stem from the word "supercedes". If so then your comment is unfounded.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Of course not. Thinking a word meant what it means would be stupid.

To supercede something is to surpass, to overcome something in terms of power, importance, authority, validity etc.

As i said previously your comments are unfounded if based on this word.

The Celestial tech supercedes all other power except Apocalypses own. Where do you get from that, that Juggernaut was depowered as opposed to the tech empowering Hulk to the point where he superceded Juggs physical prowess.

where did it say that it WAS the tech that enabled hulk to overpower juggs?

Originally posted by leonidas
where did it say that it WAS the tech that enabled hulk to overpower juggs?

Good observation. Potentially another point for the Hulk. However its more than likely the case considering Hulks previous showings against Juggernaut, the fact that War Hulk is imbued with the tech, the fact that during this particular match Jugg was winning until Hulk started glowing with green energy (something normal hulk doesnt do) and at that point Apocalypse smiled and talked of the Celestial tech and its capabilities.

Either way Hulk was empowered to the point where he could overcome Juggs momentum. There is nothing whatsoever to back up the claim that Juggs was depowered. Nothing.

First off Swanky's right about the spelling, it's supersede.

But the word doesn't mean to overcome or to surpass, it means to supplant or displace. Which makes the statement ambiguous. The comment could mean he's referring to the Celestials' power supplanting Hulk's own empowering him, or he could be referring to the Celestials' power having a capability of displacing the enchantments that empower Juggernaut. The context does seems to imply the latter more than the former, considering it seems more a test of the Celestial's power over Juggernaut.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Either way Hulk was empowered to the point where he could overcome Juggs momentum. There is nothing whatsoever to back up the claim that Juggs was depowered. Nothing.

Alright. Hulk was empowered, yes. But you seem to be under the assumption that he was empowered with an increase in physical strength. Which would not be the case, since no pure physical force (Hulk) would be able to stop Juggy. However, Hulk endowed with Celestial Tech, armor that seemed to nullify Juggy's inertia dampening ability, was indeed able to stop the forward momenetum of Juggy.

So, I figure we're both right. Hulk was empowered, Juggy was then depowered by the empowerment received by Hulk.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
First off Swanky's right about the spelling, it's super[b]sede.[/B]

I never made an issue of the spelling. Never even referred to it. But the correction is appreciated.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
But the word doesn't mean to overcome or to surpass, it means to supplant or displace. Which makes the statement ambiguous. The comment could mean he's referring to the Celestials' power supplanting Hulk's own empowering him, or he could be referring to the Celestials' power having a capability of displacing the enchantments that empower Juggernaut. The context does seems to imply the latter more than the former, considering it seems more a test of the Celestial's power over Juggernaut.

To supercede is to surpass and/or to replace in terms of power, importance , validity etc.

With that in mind Apocalypse saying that the Celestial tech supersedes all power but his own means in the context of the scan that it empowered Hulks physical prowess to the point where it rendered Juggernauts own irrelevant. Supplanting it in importance and relevance to the situation if you would.

Either way as i stated from the very beginning Hulk was empowered to the point where he could bring the unstoppable to a halt. There is no mention whatsoever of Juggernaut being depowered and no indication of that in the scans. The Celestial tech kicked in during the battle, empowering Hulk and rendering Juggs own enchantment inconsequential.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Alright. Hulk was empowered, yes. But you seem to be under the assumption that he was empowered with an increase in physical strength. Which would not be the case, since no pure physical force (Hulk) would be able to stop Juggy. However, Hulk endowed with Celestial Tech, armor that seemed to nullify Juggy's inertia dampening ability, was indeed able to stop the forward momenetum of Juggy.

So, I figure we're both right. Hulk was empowered, Juggy was then depowered by the empowerment received by Hulk.

And you're still under the impression that Juggernaut was depowered when there is no mention of that in the captions or dialogue and no indication of that on panel.

XMS was right in saying that supersedes is rather ambiguous. However given how on panel events played out, they plus the dialogue show no depowering whatsoever. But only an empowering of the Hulk.

Juggernaut is only as powerful as the power of Cytorrak allows him to be. He can be stopped physically by anyone beyond Cytorrak in the hierarchy. The success of the Celestial tech illustrates that.