And for the final point-- I think this at least shows Wonderwoman far more than capable of dismantling this team, though I do agree that if proper tactics are used, they may stand up momentarily.... but if she could do these things, I don't see it as unlikely that she would defeat the team in a rather quick manner... timetable-wise.
Originally posted by SuperherovandalAgreed.
Superman is undoubtedly much faster than her. And him approaching the sun only made it worse. Thats why she took out the k-nite ring. She would have been pummeled if she hadn't
But it's also agreed that she's far faster than mach 21, as stated earlier in the thread?
Originally posted by Juntai
True. But she was also using Kryptonite. So don't let that holding back claim fool you too much. She was doing nearly everything in her power to stop him.Yep.
She didn't use the kryptonite until they were by the sun which of course put Superman in another league so I viewed it as evening out the balance. He was being powered and weakened at the same time.
Originally posted by MindshipThat's not an accurate figure. I'm pretty sure the speed of thought given in Tron's rules is the speed at which action potentials travel along axons in the peripheral nervous system. It doesn't take into account that the electrical signal has to be transduced into a chemical signal that crosses the synaptic cleft to be transduced back into an electrical signal - which takes time. Secondly, you're also making the assumption that a single nerve firing is sufficient to utilise a power, which imo is highly unlikely. Thirdly, citing the speed of thought given by Tron is only really relevant when two people have comparable reflexes, no one on the Marvel side has comparable reflexes to Wonder Woman, I recall her deflecting automated gunfire from enemies encircling i.e. all directions standing only a few feet away.
Good point. So lemme take out my Calculator Which Imposes Real Numbers onto the Comic World...Given let's say an "average" neural distance of 1 centimeter, a nerve impulse could cover that in about 1/12,000th of a second.
It's fallacy to imply that anyone without (very) highly enhanced reflexes could get out an attack or defense in 1/12,000th of a second. Average human reaction times (which excludes subsequent thought and action) are probably around 0.75-1 second. Since they're heroes it's safe to assume they're faster maybe around 0.25 to 0.5 seconds. Including any subsequent thought for someone who is peak but normal human, it would probably amount to around 1 second or so. And then add additional time for the actual consequences of that thought e.g. time for lightning to travel (except in the case of telepathy, which imo is both thought and action concurrent although irrelevant here). Considering Wonder Woman has faster, physical speed and faster reflexes, up to 20x faster according to that thing, I'd assume any process that for example Psylocke was to do if done by Wonder Woman would be 20x faster (if that bio is correct) so approximately 0.05 of a second for reaction and thought, so she has about 0.95 seconds for the consequential action. Add to that, if I recall correctly, practiced physical actions require less neuronal activation than complex conceptual thought. If we assume she flies at Mach 3 that's 3,349 ft/s, however this doesn't factor in time to accelerate which I've no idea where to determine from. She really only has to eliminate two people. If the path between her to Invisible Woman to Psylocke is greater than maybe 2,500-3,000 ft then she can't speedblitz them. If her max speed is Mach 10 due to atmospheric disturbances then the total path would have to be around 9,500-10,000 ft. So it depends on the environment and what Wonder Woman's max speed is.
I s'pose I should add some sort of disclaimer: the above is based on several assumption where adequate information is not available.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's not an accurate figure. I'm pretty sure the speed of thought given in Tron's rules is the speed at which action potentials travel along axons in the peripheral nervous system. It doesn't take into account that the electrical signal has to be transduced into a chemical signal that crosses the synaptic cleft to be transduced back into an electrical signal - which takes time. Secondly, you're also making the assumption that a single nerve firing is sufficient to utilise a power, which imo is highly unlikely. Thirdly, citing the speed of thought given by Tron is only really relevant when two people have comparable reflexes, no one on the Marvel side has comparable reflexes to Wonder Woman, I recall her deflecting automated gunfire from enemies encircling i.e. all directions standing only a few feet away.It's fallacy to imply that anyone without (very) highly enhanced reflexes could get out an attack or defense in 1/12,000th of a second. Average human reaction times (which excludes subsequent thought and action) are probably around 0.75-1 second. Since they're heroes it's safe to assume they're faster maybe around 0.25 to 0.5 seconds. Including any subsequent thought for someone who is peak but normal human, it would probably amount to around 1 second or so. And then add additional time for the actual consequences of that thought e.g. time for lightning to travel (except in the case of telepathy, which imo is both thought and action concurrent although irrelevant here). Considering Wonder Woman has faster, physical speed and faster reflexes, up to 20x faster according to that thing, I'd assume any process that for example Psylocke was to do if done by Wonder Woman would be 20x faster (if that bio is correct) so approximately 0.05 of a second for reaction and thought, so she has about 0.95 seconds for the consequential action. Add to that, if I recall correctly, practiced physical actions require less neuronal activation than complex conceptual thought. If we assume she flies at Mach 3 that's 3,349 ft/s, however this doesn't factor in time to accelerate which I've no idea where to determine from. She really only has to eliminate two people. If the path between her to Invisible Woman to Psylocke is greater than maybe 2,500-3,000 ft then she can't speedblitz them. If her max speed is Mach 10 due to atmospheric disturbances then the total path would have to be around 9,500-10,000 ft. So it depends on the environment and what Wonder Woman's max speed is.
I s'pose I should add some sort of disclaimer: the above is based on several assumption where adequate information is not available.
Feel free to post in any of my threads. 😉
Originally posted by Juntai
IN WW:219, Sacrifice Concludes.She told Max Lord, when he tried to take her over "I see with a Gods eyes, and understand with a Gods wisdom, Max Lord. Your power will not work on me"
And then he said "I didn't think it would. But you can't blame a guy for trying."I would also assume she's powerful enough to get through the shields created by IW. There's been lesser things that pounded through them. Gladiator did it with ease.
#1 she's not Gladiator... WW's maybe half as strong...
#2 He also uses some sort of mental feedback along with his punches... WW punches won't effect her field in the same way...
#3 IW could keep her shield up for quite sometime against WW (HULK, THOR Etc...). Not indefinately but long enough for SHE-HULK to get her big green mitts on her and let her out the clamp down.
😈
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's not an accurate figure. I'm pretty sure the speed of thought given in Tron's rules is the speed at which action potentials travel along axons in the peripheral nervous system. It doesn't take into account that the electrical signal has to be transduced into a chemical signal that crosses the synaptic cleft to be transduced back into an electrical signal - which takes time. Secondly, you're also making the assumption that a single nerve firing is sufficient to utilise a power, which imo is highly unlikely. Thirdly, citing the speed of thought given by Tron is only really relevant when two people have comparable reflexes, no one on the Marvel side has comparable reflexes to Wonder Woman, I recall her deflecting automated gunfire from enemies encircling i.e. all directions standing only a few feet away.It's fallacy to imply that anyone without (very) highly enhanced reflexes could get out an attack or defense in 1/12,000th of a second. Average human reaction times (which excludes subsequent thought and action) are probably around 0.75-1 second. Since they're heroes it's safe to assume they're faster maybe around 0.25 to 0.5 seconds. Including any subsequent thought for someone who is peak but normal human, it would probably amount to around 1 second or so. And then add additional time for the actual consequences of that thought e.g. time for lightning to travel (except in the case of telepathy, which imo is both thought and action concurrent although irrelevant here). Considering Wonder Woman has faster, physical speed and faster reflexes, up to 20x faster according to that thing, I'd assume any process that for example Psylocke was to do if done by Wonder Woman would be 20x faster (if that bio is correct) so approximately 0.05 of a second for reaction and thought, so she has about 0.95 seconds for the consequential action. Add to that, if I recall correctly, practiced physical actions require less neuronal activation than complex conceptual thought. If we assume she flies at Mach 3 that's 3,349 ft/s, however this doesn't factor in time to accelerate which I've no idea where to determine from. She really only has to eliminate two people. If the path between her to Invisible Woman to Psylocke is greater than maybe 2,500-3,000 ft then she can't speedblitz them. If her max speed is Mach 10 due to atmospheric disturbances then the total path would have to be around 9,500-10,000 ft. So it depends on the environment and what Wonder Woman's max speed is.
I s'pose I should add some sort of disclaimer: the above is based on several assumption where adequate information is not available.
Another thing that has to be taken in consideration is because WW has no knowledge about whom is whom with these girls of Marvel and what they all can do and the same goes for them. It's most likely that WW tries to take down SHE-HULK 1st because she is the most imposing. And SHE-HULK will take a conciderable beating before going down one attack by WW isn't going to take her out. Which gives IW and Psy time to do their thing... Along with the rest of them.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's not an accurate figure. I'm pretty sure the speed of thought given in Tron's rules is the speed at which action potentials travel along axons in the peripheral nervous system. It doesn't take into account that the electrical signal has to be transduced into a chemical signal that crosses the synaptic cleft to be transduced back into an electrical signal - which takes time. Secondly, you're also making the assumption that a single nerve firing is sufficient to utilise a power, which imo is highly unlikely. Thirdly, citing the speed of thought given by Tron is only really relevant when two people have comparable reflexes, no one on the Marvel side has comparable reflexes to Wonder Woman, I recall her deflecting automated gunfire from enemies encircling i.e. all directions standing only a few feet away.It's fallacy to imply that anyone without (very) highly enhanced reflexes could get out an attack or defense in 1/12,000th of a second. Average human reaction times (which excludes subsequent thought and action) are probably around 0.75-1 second. Since they're heroes it's safe to assume they're faster maybe around 0.25 to 0.5 seconds. Including any subsequent thought for someone who is peak but normal human, it would probably amount to around 1 second or so. And then add additional time for the actual consequences of that thought e.g. time for lightning to travel (except in the case of telepathy, which imo is both thought and action concurrent although irrelevant here). Considering Wonder Woman has faster, physical speed and faster reflexes, up to 20x faster according to that thing, I'd assume any process that for example Psylocke was to do if done by Wonder Woman would be 20x faster (if that bio is correct) so approximately 0.05 of a second for reaction and thought, so she has about 0.95 seconds for the consequential action. Add to that, if I recall correctly, practiced physical actions require less neuronal activation than complex conceptual thought. If we assume she flies at Mach 3 that's 3,349 ft/s, however this doesn't factor in time to accelerate which I've no idea where to determine from. She really only has to eliminate two people. If the path between her to Invisible Woman to Psylocke is greater than maybe 2,500-3,000 ft then she can't speedblitz them. If her max speed is Mach 10 due to atmospheric disturbances then the total path would have to be around 9,500-10,000 ft. So it depends on the environment and what Wonder Woman's max speed is.
I s'pose I should add some sort of disclaimer: the above is based on several assumption where adequate information is not available.
Several good points are being raised (and the disclaimer at the end is also appreciated). Since several factors have to be considered to "compute" time to perceive-sensory-nerve-signal-brain-processing-motor-nerve-signal-muscle(or whatever)-respond, I was vastly simplifying, as I hoped would be noted in my saying "average" neuronal transit distance we'll say is 1 centimeter.
EVEN SO...as I understand it, WW has used her bracelets to deflect lightning (which travels about 0.5c) and lasers, as well as Superman's heat vision. There are only two ways she can do this...1) she is able to anticipate (by reading body language?) when "the trigger is about to be pulled," so to speak and raise her arm before the bolt of power is on its way; or 2) via some superluminal sensing mechanism (which, no doubt, would be magical in nature, though this has never even been hinted at), Diana is able to perceive these near-light and lightspeed attacks already on their way to her, which implies not just FTL reflexes, but also FTL neural-signal speed and brain processing (just like the Starship Enterprise's computers).
Though the fight with Superman would imply #2, any bios on WW appear to imply #1 (which, personally, I tend to favor, cuz it's more believable). Even so, there is a HUGE difference between the speed of sound and the speed of light. Diana does not have to speedblitz at Mach 1,000,000 (about lightspeed), but she can still be way faster than Mach 21. Mach 30 - Mach 1000 (what I generally refer to as "cometary" speeds cuz this is roughly how fast comets fly) is still fast enough to traverse half a mile before see-process-react occurs in her opponents, especially so if see-process-react takes significantly longer than 1/12,000 of a second.
Man, if only we could get paid debating this stuff... 🤣
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's not an accurate figure. I'm pretty sure the speed of thought given in Tron's rules is the speed at which action potentials travel along axons in the peripheral nervous system. It doesn't take into account that the electrical signal has to be transduced into a chemical signal that crosses the synaptic cleft to be transduced back into an electrical signal - which takes time. Secondly, you're also making the assumption that a single nerve firing is sufficient to utilise a power, which imo is highly unlikely. Thirdly, citing the speed of thought given by Tron is only really relevant when two people have comparable reflexes, no one on the Marvel side has comparable reflexes to Wonder Woman, I recall her deflecting automated gunfire from enemies encircling i.e. all directions standing only a few feet away.It's fallacy to imply that anyone without (very) highly enhanced reflexes could get out an attack or defense in 1/12,000th of a second. Average human reaction times (which excludes subsequent thought and action) are probably around 0.75-1 second. Since they're heroes it's safe to assume they're faster maybe around 0.25 to 0.5 seconds. Including any subsequent thought for someone who is peak but normal human, it would probably amount to around 1 second or so. And then add additional time for the actual consequences of that thought e.g. time for lightning to travel (except in the case of telepathy, which imo is both thought and action concurrent although irrelevant here). Considering Wonder Woman has faster, physical speed and faster reflexes, up to 20x faster according to that thing, I'd assume any process that for example Psylocke was to do if done by Wonder Woman would be 20x faster (if that bio is correct) so approximately 0.05 of a second for reaction and thought, so she has about 0.95 seconds for the consequential action. Add to that, if I recall correctly, practiced physical actions require less neuronal activation than complex conceptual thought. If we assume she flies at Mach 3 that's 3,349 ft/s, however this doesn't factor in time to accelerate which I've no idea where to determine from. She really only has to eliminate two people. If the path between her to Invisible Woman to Psylocke is greater than maybe 2,500-3,000 ft then she can't speedblitz them. If her max speed is Mach 10 due to atmospheric disturbances then the total path would have to be around 9,500-10,000 ft. So it depends on the environment and what Wonder Woman's max speed is.
I s'pose I should add some sort of disclaimer: the above is based on several assumption where adequate information is not available.
Ooooh Action Potentials, we doing this at the moment. Other things have to be taken into consideration, such as the time taken to for the myosin filaments in the muscle's to synthesis ATP (or whatever the magical substitute), and contract ! 🙂 X do you know a lot about this, as i was wondering if it scientifically possible to substantially increase ones reactions ?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not all of the speedsters run at the speed of light MM. Heres a lil snippet from starnet:Superhuman Reflexes: Wonder Woman possesses reflex abilities similar to lower-level speedsters such as Jesse Quick and Max Mercury, somewhere in the range of 8 to 20 times normal human reflexes with concentration. She, however, does not maintain her enhanced speed awareness due to the temporal difficulties such thinking causes her. She seems able to keep up with Jesse Quick, referencing her patron diety of speed and messenger of the gods, Hermes as the source of her powers.
Superspeed: It is unknown how long she can maintain a speedsterÕs average pace (which we clock at approximately 125 mph (2.08 miles/second) to 200 mph (3.3 mile/sec) innercity and 225 mph (3.75 miles/sec) to 500 mph (8.3 miles/sec) over land outside of cities). Since Wonder Woman lacks the speed aura of true speedsters, the environmental effects/disruptions that she causes probably prevent her from utilizing superspeed mobility as a common mode of travel. With bracers forged by Hephastes, Wonder Woman boosts her resistance to injury with her near-indestructible bracers. She is able to deflect attacks that might otherwise cause her considerable injury but she can only deflect attacks she is aware of.
Flight: Wonder Woman is capable of unassisted flight through an as yet unknown but probably magical means. She has been clocked at Mach 3 (2,100 mph, 35 miles per second) in flight and can be presumed to be much faster if she wanted to be. No reliable ceiling is known but atmospheric distubances occur at speeds greater than Mach 10 (7,000 mph, 116 miles/sec) so that is probably her limit in atmosphere as well. Her aerial manuevability is not as developed as aerial combatants such as Hawkman or the Black Condor, but she is a relatively capable aerial combatant as well.
So there you have it. The top flight speed she has pulled off is mach 3 and its presumed she can fly faster but as she has never done so on panel thats speculation and cant be used in battle scenarios here.
You do realise how out dated and inaccurate that site is : Superman = 100 000 tons 😕 Um mm I'm under the impression that a third of the moon weighs a bit more than a 100 kilo tons. As does probably War World and the various oil tankers and mountain sized rocks he has lifted.
Black Bolt is listed at class 50 😕 although he is going toe toe with the likes of Gladiator, Hulk and Thor. This stuff is from memory, ill go back and find more example's of BS this site is loaded with. 🙂
G.S., for someone who is always pointing that people 'should read the comics' you do use a lot of Internet reference sites as primary sources.
Originally posted by yahman
You do realise how out dated and inaccurate that site is : Superman = 100 000 tons 😕 Um mm I'm under the impression that a third of the moon weighs a bit more than a 100 kilo tons. As does probably War World and the various oil tankers and mountain sized rocks he has lifted.Black Bolt is listed at class 50 😕 although he is going toe toe with the likes of Gladiator, Hulk and Thor. This stuff is from memory, ill go back and find more example's of BS this site is loaded with. 🙂
G.S., for someone who is always pointing that people 'should read the comics' you do use a lot of Internet reference sites as primary sources.
Already dealt with by all of the objective posters who have been posting in this thread. Sorry mate but you're dragging up an old issue. We've moved on here. Thanks for your contribution. 🙂
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Another thing that has to be taken in consideration is because WW has no knowledge about whom is whom with these girls of Marvel and what they all can do and the same goes for them. It's most likely that WW tries to take down SHE-HULK 1st because she is the most imposing. And SHE-HULK will take a conciderable beating before going down one attack by WW isn't going to take her out. Which gives IW and Psy time to do their thing... Along with the rest of them.
Basic knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows.
Originally posted by Juntai
Read the forum rules.
Specifically, this piece:Basic knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows.
If thats the case then why doesn't IW an Pys go into the fight with their fields up and around their teams pre the start of the fight...?
Originally posted by Tony StarkBecause of the other rule, regarding prep.
If thats the case then why doesn't IW an Pys go into the fight with their fields up and around their teams pre the start of the fight...?
Prep time
Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not.
Can't you read this stuff yourself?
It's pinned on the forum.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
LethalFemme define the distance then because as you've seen if WW is anything short of a few miles away from the team then she wins quite conclusively end of debate. If she beyond that distance then we've still got a debate to be had.
Fine since there doesn't seem to be away to distance them without giving someone the upper hand I'll do it like this. All the Marvel women are informed they will be fighting an enemy and they will be a team. They will have no knowledge of WW what so ever. WW is informed she will be fighting these women and is also given no knowledge of them at all. Then they are all instantly transported in the danger room all scattered about so WW can't speedblitz them all at once and IW and Psylocke can't just instantly surround everyone with a shield.