Originally posted by leonidas
the only thing i 'endorse' is that pf is a creation force. i still don't buy the argument that it is a part of 'all life', nor do i necessarily believe if it was banished that all life would end. the goblin force incident still throws a small monkey wrench in that idea, though the excalibre scan seems to support this notion -- except for galactus, who apparently isn't considered a living being despite the way gs interprets that scan!😄
Whether you endorse it or not the situation is what it is. Its stated on panel many a time that Phoenix is "the sum and substance of all that lives." its stated that its the energies of creation the very Big Bang from which all life in reality is derived from. Its stated and shown. In the face of that like it or not you must accept it or put together a sufficient counter argument. The Goblin Force incident clearly states that the Phoenix was absorbed and its power was added to the GF's. Wheres the wrench? Phoenix is life but it also manifests in reality through life. Thats what the raptor is. A manifestation of those creation energies. Not the sum total of those creation energies in one package. GF ate that raptor, it got a power boost. Life still existed because that action gave the Goblin Force access to that energy reserve the raptor could draw upon. Nothing more.
Thats one interpretation and it coincides with the other sources i have shown you, namely Excalibur which makes it clear that an absence of Phoenix on the physical plane means the gradual end to all life and the potential for life. Like i said its just like cutting off the universe from its mains supply. All life would eventually fade with nothing to draw upon and Galactus would eventually without nourishment.
Originally posted by leonidas
demi seemed to agree with a lot of the things gs has been saying, but he disagreed with gs on the role of jean. i tend to side with demi here. it doesn't quite fit with me that jean and the pf are one and the same enitity. he also argued for a multiversal pf, which i suppose could exist. he and i differed on the ultimate origin of that force. i still don't like the argument that the pf was created before the multiverse in the white hot room and that it in turn started the multiverse. that's just too big aleap for me, and i still like to think it evolved (as the bio says) from the life of the multiverse itself.
Personal preference doesnt come into this Leo. Its actually stated in the scans ive shown and even in the very bio that started this discussion that Jean and Phoenix manifestation are one and the same. There is no debating that matter.
Why are you questioning a multiversal Phoenix entity? Its not something Demis just suddenly come up with its something thats been shown in New X-men for nearly 2 years now, something ive talked about on these forums. Why are you questioning it now? You have the Crown which surveys the megaverse and in the Crown is the Phoenix consciousness. This manifests throughout the multiverse as the Phoenix manifestations. That is shown in New X-men it isnt some crazy concoction my friend. It isnt something that could exist its something that does exist as has been shown on panel.
On panel you have many sources stating that Phoenix is the energies of creation, that Phoenix is the alpha and omega, that Phoenix is the natural beginning and end of a universe. The energies from which creation springs and which creation is sustained by. Wheres the big leap? Again i say personal preference does not come into it.