To further expand on my theory to the levels down, the In-betweener is more than an abstract (that's why he got punched out by Galactus) - he is the balance beween order and chaos the way that Galactus is the balance of life and death. Without them, each universe would tilt towards one extreme or the other and destroy itself with the lack of balance.
The Celestials are the Johnny Appleseeds of life.
Originally posted by demigawd
To further expand on my theory to the levels down, the In-betweener is more than an abstract (that's why he got punched out by Galactus) - he is the balance beween order and chaos the way that Galactus is the balance of life and death. Without them, each universe would tilt towards one extreme or the other and destroy itself with the lack of balance.The Celestials are the Johnny Appleseeds of life.
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Also, I must disagree about your statment about what the PF is responsible for. It serves no other purpose than the creation cycle. It can no more bring about the end of the universe than Eternity can.
Actually, the manifestation of the Phoenix does bring about the destruction and recycling of the universe.
Originally posted by Evil Genius
No it powers the Phoenix instead and the Phoenix dies when no life exists.
Only that Phoenix manifestation! The Phoenix Force exists outside of the multiverse, and thus is unaffected by life or lack thereof. If multi-Eternity was destroyed, all life would cease to exist, as the multiverse would cease to exist. All manifestations of the Phoenix would be destroyed, since it can't exist without life. But the Phoenix Force, being within the White Hot Room, would be unaffected the same way the unused lump of clay would be unaffected by the destruction of a series of clay models.
Originally posted by Evil Genius
Flawed - Universal Death its part of Phoenixes cycle it dictates the cycle in fact.
Phoenix doesn't bring death, it brings the end of the cycle, which is different from death, the same way Oblivion is a separate abstract from Death, despite the fact that they are both forms of "the end".
Put it this way - if the Phoenix Force wanted Thanos removed from creation, it wouldn't have to kill Thanos, and thus Death's protection would have nothing to do with it.
Originally posted by demigawdWell that was the point.
The answer to all is NO. Both Oblivion and Death are the absence of life. So it's not limited. That's why, again, there's no Multi-Death.
Life being the absence of death sounds rather odd. Which is why it's hard to say that Phoenix force is the abstract of Life like that. It's more or less an attempt to back you up.
This should help clarify the whole Death vs. Phoenix vs. Eternity thing.
In Marvel and indeed in most major religions in real life, death isn't seen as an end, it's likened more to a change of state - a shift of energy form. In Marvel, when you die, you usually find yourself in some realm or other - Valhalla, Heaven, Avalon, Hel, Hell, etc. It's not an end for you, and you're still part of that same universe you were born in...you're just now in a spiritual/energy/incorporeal/soul form.
The real *end* for you only comes when the universe itself is destroyed. Then you are DESTROYED, along with your assigned death god and Death. Death is not destruction, therefore she can't be seen as a counter-Phoenix.
And to be honest, Phoenix is more than life, too. Phoenix is existence. Stars aren't alive, and thus can't be killed...but they exist, and thus can be destroyed.
There's really no comparison of the two, and Death's power is very limited.
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
More essential than Eternity and Death? No. [b]As essential as Eternity and Death? Yes. [/B]
Yes, more essential.
Phoenix gives the abstracts purpose.
If there was no creation and no existence, there'd be no purpose for Living Tribunal, Death, Eternity, or any of the other abstracts.
You can't have conceptual embodiments unless they have something to embody.
Phoenix brings substance.